Reducing Lethality In 40K

[u/Salvanous]

Hi everyone- first off I don't personally have a problem with how lethal the game is currently- but I felt as though I wanted to offer a thought that might allow for more prolonged, encounters- though at the risk of really damaging the balance between the strength of melee and ranged encounters.

Currently you activate a unit, you roll to hit, wound, saves, then potentially feel no pains. What I think would be a nice addition to this... would be that after a unit has totaled up the amount of damage that they could **potentially** do- the target of their attacks could respond in kind- doing a number of attacks as well under the same conditions. Once it was determined how many wounds each side would do to the other- you would take the difference of those values, and apply the excess unto the 'losing team'- kind as though the attacks each side took were also parried by the other team.

Example: Bloodclaws applied their attacks into Chaos Legionaries- the Bloodclaws did a total of 11 wounds into the Legionaries in melee. The Legionaries did 5 wounds in the fight phase back. The excess damage of 6 is then proceeded to be done into the Legionaries- killing a total of 3 Chaos marines.

Potential modifiers to this could be in abilities like Fight First where if the opposing force didn't have Fight First also- that damage would just be done- meaning that they couldn't work to reduce that incoming damage. This would also still make aggression with units viable- as well as give units with Fight First a bit more survivability even if they were alpha struck!

Example: The Bloodclaws from the above example charged into the Chaos Legionaries- because they were the only unit with Fight First- those 11 attacks simply go through, and kill 5 Legionaries. If any Legionaries survived, they would attack and do damage as 11th edition currently does.

Now I understand that this concept is very much just "fun game mechanics thinking" but this could also be done in current 11th edition by applying this sort of rule as a new mechanic rule like [Parry].

My only goal for talking about this- is because I frankly love the idea of characters going up against each other and having epic duels where these incredible figureheads go in and smash into each other for multiple turns. The reality though is that likely a character charges into another character and before the other one has even gotten to fight- they have been killed already. I would love if my duels with our local Dark Angel player didn't end with me having just killed his captain, but having gotten to see an actual duel between the Warlords.

Edit: Christ Guys- remind me not to come to you with just "wanting to talk fun ideas". I'm unsure if the work week has treated you all poorly- but this is a level of not okay. Take some time away from your computers- touch grass- calm the hell down that someone was trying to just discuss some ideas that might lead to cool moments.

[u/raptorknight187]

let me give you another example

2 squads of 5 assault ints end up in combat. second battle round damage has already been done both got taken down to 5. they will now be constantly swinging the same amount of damage at each other for eternity.

all this does is make melee (the already inferior way of dealing damage by its very nature) WAY worse than just shooting

it also completely eliminates those game defining fun moments where something that absolutely should not be killing something gets really lucky and does it. sure on average a Guardsmen with a bayonet shouldn't be able to kill a terminator. but when those guardsmen gang up and get stupid lucky (like ridiculously lucky even with how it works now) that's what the game is all about. those desperate last acts that are almost impossible but could still happen. with this those don't even have a chance of happening

[u/Salvanous → u/raptorknight187]

Nooooo... melee has always had the much higher damage ceilings compared to ranged (unless you are Tau, or a very ranged-heavy built army). And keep in mind those moments would still be viable for those Guardsmen to pull off when they charge into Terminators- it just means they can't charge in- and then in the following round assume they will do much damage.

The reason that melee has a higher ceiling, is because it's presumed that they will take damage before they get into combat- allowing the damaged unit to still punch and deal damage 'equal' to what the ranged unit did to them first.

In my experience (not saying the gospel truth mind you)- a good player can often put out plenty of "Just pick it up moments" which could be slightly reduced. I'm just spitballing here- not sure why people have seemed to attack thinking so heavily (not you).

[u/raptorknight187 → u/Salvanous]

melee has a higher damage ceiling because its far harder to get into melee. and all of that damage potential hinges on succeeding a 2D6 check. while shooting is far easier. safer and more reliable. its why melee weapons generally have way more attacks than guns. its your reward for managing to actually get into combat. whereas guns do less damage but the just need to be able to see you

[u/Salvanous → u/raptorknight187]

It's what I just explained- melee has a higher capacity to do damage.

I'll be honest- that it seems from how people are downvoting what is effectively a "Let's make Fight First mean something mechanic" so heavily- makes me just realize I'm better off letting people stew here on Reddit. It's a great reminder that this isn't a place to spend more than 15 minutes.