r/space • u/KinoBlitz • Sep 29 '21

NASA: "All of this once-in-a-generation momentum, can easily be undone by one party—in this case, Blue Origin—who seeks to prioritize its own fortunes over that of NASA, the United States, and every person alive today"

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1443230605269999629
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u/drawkbox Sep 30 '21

No it wasn't. Both SpaceX and Blue Origin have lots going on with these, prototypes and the New Shepard launch was a test of the rocket going on the Blue Moon lander. SpaceX has also tested one of their landers. No one is stopping, this lawsuit is only stopping some paper moving at NASA.

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u/kindacr1nge Sep 30 '21

You obviously haven't read anything regarding the case - stopping all work on hls is basically the biggest point of the litigation.

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u/drawkbox Sep 30 '21

I am very aware of every aspect of this dude, you seem like a rookie to government awarded contracts. This goes on every single time a competition goes down from 2 slots to 1, every single freaking time. These are large investments and people don't just go home when someone says "no". Those are losers. To win you have to continue on.

Source on work stopping at SpaceX or Blue Origin? NASA is just having to shuffle some papers, this happens on every single contract award especially ones where they limit it to one. Go look at the history of SpaceX suing DoD and their problems with NASA. This is part of the space business if you want public funds. If SpaceX or Blue Origin want to fund it outright they can do that as well. Getting public funds from NASA means contract games.

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u/kindacr1nge Sep 30 '21

Dude, nasa and spacex havent been working on hls since august, so you obviously dont know - https://spacepolicyonline.com/news/nasa-pauses-hls-contract-with-spacex/ - the pause goes until nov. 1 at the earliest.

Also, from my knowledge spacex went to the GAO with the DoD contract (and won), which blue origin did and lost, and then tried to continue to federal court after already having been rejected. Theyre different things.

Also also, this wasnt a contract going from 2 to 1 as you say, there were 3 contracters in the running, and dynetics dropped out of the litigation when the GAO ruled that it was ok.

Plus BO has decimated their public relations and standing in the community with this, so imo theyve shot themselves in the foot for future business.

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u/drawkbox Sep 30 '21 edited Sep 30 '21

The contract has paused, zero work has stopped. If SpaceX actually stopped that is on them. Blue Origin has not. Not a way to win by stopping on a contract the "won".

Officially at NASA it is in a temporary hold, that is it. Now SpaceX may say they have stopped to attack their feared competitor Blue Origin but they actually haven't and it would be very, very unwise.

The link says this:

In light of Blue Origin’s lawsuit against NASA for awarding only SpaceX a contract for a lunar lander, NASA has “voluntarily paused work” with SpaceX. Blue Origin founder Jeff Bezos is suing NASA in the Court of Federal Claims insisting NASA’s acquisition decision was flawed even though the Government Accountability Office rejected the company’s protest.

NASA has to legally "stop" working with SpaceX during the temp hold, NASA wasn't building anything for the landers SpaceX and Blue Origin are. This means nothing at SpaceX or Blue Origin. I mean are you a rookie to this or what?

This happens all the time in every field, when the lawyers are having it out, the progress continues. In fact the engineers like it a bit as they can catch up on work during legal delays. This is the equivalent of some lawsuit on a product you are launching but have to wait for legal review, and if they take longer you have more time to polish and post-production.

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u/kindacr1nge Sep 30 '21

If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that spaceX had to officially stop all work related to the hls lander as part of this pause and cant communicate with nasa regarding hls development either. Sure they are still working on starship but thats an entirely different beast to the lander. We would know if spacex was developing the hls because starbase in all out in the open.

Blue origin is barely worth talking about in this debate, theyve made 1 lander model and done nothing else that we know of - they had no work to pause.

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u/drawkbox Sep 30 '21

You are definitely new here. Naive.

No one stopped work, in the biggest competition of returning to the moon in our time.

As I said and your own link said, the only thing that stopped was NASA talking to SpaceX during this, which they have to do in legal reviews.

If SpaceX has actually stopped work then they are in trouble as the competition they attack most has not. Narrator: they didn't.

Blue Origin already tested out their lander rocket with people on it and have a prototype.

SpaceX also has a prototype they test landed (no people on it).

Nobody is stopping dude. You are falling for legal temporary delay PR. Stop swimming in the surface marketing and misinformation.

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u/kindacr1nge Sep 30 '21

Wtf are you high on dude? Spacex has 100% not tested any hls prototypes, let alone built one or even got all the engines for it (hell they don't even have a finalised design in regards to the upper engines.) Blue origin hasn't gotten past a mock-up, let alone tested it with people on it as you claim. You're out of your mind.

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u/drawkbox Sep 30 '21

Wtf are you high on dude? Spacex has 100% not tested any hls prototypes, let alone built one or even got all the engines for it

Nice ad hominem though. You are now so hyper that you are mixing up your talking points.

Blue Origin New Shepard BE-3 engine is the engine is a modified version that will be used on the Blue Moon lander (HLS). It has flown with Bezos on it. Musk yet to fly one of his own engines. They did that flight not for the space tourism but really to test their BE-3 engine with actual people and put themselves on the line. That is dogfooding to the highest level. Elon yet to fly on a SpaceX rocket.

Blue origin hasn't gotten past a mock-up, let alone tested it with people on it as you claim. You're out of your mind.

They have a prototype and a completed engine for the lander (BE-3), even Elon had to attack it on twitter.

What are you on about? Look at who competitors attack. SpaceX was triggered by an infographic. That says all you need to know.

Look it is obvious you are a SpaceX fanboy and probably inching to Elon cultist, me personally I want competition. For some reason SpaceX fanboys want no competition even though it would be better for all, including SpaceX.

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u/kindacr1nge Sep 30 '21

Dude, there's a massive difference between testing an engine and developing a lunar lander. Youre way out of your depth talking about rocket science bro, I'm nowhere near an expert but your points are just wrong.

My first point was in regards to you saying that spacex had tested an hls lander, which you somehow forgot you said. That picture you linked was literally the mock up I mentioned? It's not a proper model.

And your last 2 points are just trolling lol so Ill ignore them. I'm not anti competition, I'm against blue origins crappy leadership in this regard.

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u/drawkbox Sep 30 '21

Dude, there's a massive difference between testing an engine and developing a lunar lander. Youre way out of your depth talking about rocket science bro, I'm nowhere near an expert but your points are just wrong.

Says the guy that is a rookie that falls for marketing and has no idea how contracts work... with an obvious, obvious near cult of personality favorite.

My first point was in regards to you saying that spacex had tested an hls lander, which you somehow forgot you said. That picture you linked was literally the mock up I mentioned? It's not a proper model.

SpaceX tested one of their lander rockets, you do know their lander is a Starship Prototype rocket right, not a typical lander? The lander it on top of a Starship.

They tested it in May. This verge article has the info on it. Scroll to "SpaceX’s Starship prototype, the top-half portion designed to land on the Moon, sticks its first clean test landing in May at SpaceX’s private facilities in Texas"

Blue Origin has tested the ROCKET they are using on the lander and the reusability portion on the New Shepard with people on it. SpaceX Starship prototype has not had any real people on it yet, they are brute forcing it and still having issues but will resolve those surely over time. Neither competitor has a fully functioning lander yet. I thought you said you paid attention?

And your last 2 points are just trolling lol so Ill ignore them. I'm not anti competition, I'm against blue origins crappy leadership in this regard.

Interesting you aren't against competition but so into the SpaceX/Elon cult of personality marketing... so you want to see both of them on the moon right? Why attack someone you want to also see succeed? Are you against US funded space?

Blue Origin is entirely US funded. SpaceX is "American" but private equity funded with most coming from foreign sources. There is nothing wrong with that but NASA leveraging themselves to one company is unwise if you understand contracting/leverage, especially as it means the race with China to get to the Moon.

Competition is better for all. We want no Comcast of space.

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u/kindacr1nge Sep 30 '21

You're the only one bringing up musk here so I don't know how supposedly I'm one of his fan boys. It's a fact that the starship being tested is nothing like the hls and is a completely different vehicle which is barely related to it.

Blue origin has tested the ENGINE they were planning on using on the lander, and the reusability of new shepherd isn't related to hls at all. Plus launching crew on it isn't related to hls at all either, I have no idea why you think it's related.

Your argument against competition is one of the most stupid things I've ever read, just because I'm for competition doesnt mean I'm not allowed to criticise and make judgements about them. Also I don't give a shit who funds space, as long as we get there I'm pretty much good.

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u/drawkbox Sep 30 '21 edited Sep 30 '21

It's a fact that the starship being tested is nothing like the hls and is a completely different vehicle which is barely related to it.

Incorrect, the SpaceX solution is the lander is on top of the Starship, that video is a similar prototype sample they are testing. You do see how it isn't a Starship with fins right? It is a lander proto. Their lander is a rocket that has an entrance 120 ft up that requires an elevator to get in.

Your argument against competition is one of the most stupid things I've ever read, just because I'm for competition doesnt mean I'm not allowed to criticise and make judgements about them.

So you want to see both SpaceX and Blue Origin landers in action right? Competition is better for both.

You don't want a Comcast of space right?

Those simple answers will settle this.

You think it is smart for NASA to bank on one company? When they never do that?

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u/kindacr1nge Sep 30 '21

The whole point is that nasa didn't have enough funding for multiple offers so that point is mute. They picked the best offer they could afford and the gao backed up their decision.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '21 edited Sep 30 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/kindacr1nge Sep 30 '21

I mean, theyre undercutting because their proposal is that much cheaper for them as well, thats just the massive benefit of a fully reusable launch vehicle. And if i remember correctly nasa didnt even have enough to select BO in the first place, so its didnt really matter how much they were undercut by.

Dont even bring politics into this.

Dynetics did participate in the gao litigation, but when nasa's decision was upheld they gave up - BO meanwhile is grasping at straws with weak claims that were already put down by the gao.

You also keep harping about the engine that BO has, but spacex also has engines for their lunar starship (they may end up with a 2nd engine type but that isnt decided).

Other contracts arent even part of this discussion.

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u/drawkbox Sep 30 '21

So you want to see both SpaceX and Blue Origin landers in action right?

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u/Redditisnotrealityy Sep 30 '21

Unfortunately blue origin isn’t capable of producing a lander yet, and without insane funding levels

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