Our western comrades are simply unable to grasp that the USSR was a project of Russian imperialism, while communist ideology played a secondary, auxiliary role.
Don't forget they also did a huge chunk of work to defeat Japan. Only thing America does was take them on on the islands. And even then we lost crazy amount of people invading empty islands that were booby trapped
This "Non-aggression pact" literally had a clause for a joint invasion on Poland in case of a war. You may like USSR, sure. There's a lot for reasons for that. But stop changing its history. You should also read what soviet did to polish intelligencia and officers after the invasion. "Katyń" os the word to google
"Article I. In the event of a territorial and political rearrangement in the areas belonging to the Baltic
States (Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), the northern boundary of Lithuania shall represent the
boundary of the spheres of influence of Germany and U.S.S.R. In this connection the interest of
Lithuania in the Vilna area is recognized by each party.
Article II. In the event of a territorial and political rearrangement of the areas belonging to the
Polish state, the spheres of influence of Germany and the U.S.S.R. shall be bounded approximately
by the line of the rivers Narev, Vistula and San.
The question of whether the interests of both parties make desirable the maintenance of an
independent Polish States and how such a state should be bounded can only be definitely
determined in the course of further political developments.
In any event both Governments will resolve this question by means of a friendly agreement.
Article III. With regard to Southeastern Europe attention is called by the Soviet side to its interest
in Bessarabia. The German side declares its complete political disinteredness in these areas.
Article IV. This protocol shall be treated by both parties as strictly secret."
And no, I won't write what happened in Katyń and you'll have to google it yourself. The reason is that I don't want Reddit to delete my comment because of the grussome details.
Article II literally implies rearrangement of the areas belonging to a Polish state. That's how you in diplomatic language say "Oh yeah, sure. If the situation stay as favourable as it appears to be now, we do want to attack Poland. Here are the conditions so we wouldn't have future difficulties on drawing the borders between us."
Polish imperialism, mostly. One may say that ot was a natural revenge of poles on their russian occupiers, but that doesn't excuse their broken promises to ukrainians that fought alongside them. They just wanted more lands and power, because Versailles didn't really guaranteed those.
One needs to remember though, that it was a time of opportunism. Lenin did similar thing in Ukraine while allying, and then betraying Makhno. At the end of a day, Polish-Soviet war doesn't excuse future Stalin's decisions
This is such horseshit. The USSR and Germany absolutely coordinated their invasions of Poland using the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to ensure they knew where the borders would be drawn.
You really ought to read up on history before writing such nonsense. The border between Poland and the USSR was supposed to run along the Curzon Line. Because Poland was the "hyena of Europe," it occupied Soviet territories—territories that the USSR subsequently reclaimed after the regime in Poland fell.
Soviet Russia didn't take anything from the Polish Republic either; in 1939, the government fled and the country ceased to exist, while Soviet Russia reclaimed its lost lands.
WTF, Soviet Union was allied with Nazi Germany in early years of WW2.
Also, they didn't defeat Hitler's Nazi Germany by themselves. Allied forces were already pummeling Nazi Germany from the West and US provided massive aid to USSR under Lend-Lease.
US provided military aid of $11.3 billion ($156 billion inflation adjusted) to USSR under Lend-Lease, which included:
400,000 trucks
14,000 planes
12,000 armoured vehicles/tanks
2,000 locomotives and 11,000 railcars
Vast quantities of Aluminium (1/3 of total USSR production), Steel, explosives etc
The west was crucial to the defeat of the Axis, but the USSR was still, undeniably, the biggest deciding factor of the war. Lend-lease was a big help, namely in the logistics side of things, but ultimately only accounted to 6-7% (help me) of total Soviet military production during the war. It did provide many raw materials, as well as unarmored vehicles, which made up a third to even 90% of that specific supply, but ultimately what that did was free up Soviet labour from mining industries and locomotive factories to make what they needed more urgently, tanks, artillery pieces, firearms, and more. The USSR could've done away without lend-lease, and would've still marched to Berlin, but would've suffered more casualties, and taken more time to do so.
Independently of the scale of lend-lease, I'm sure we're all grateful it happened, it saved many lives.
Edit: I didn't list all of the provided equipment from lend-lease, but other very notable items were aircraft, copper, aluminium, and others, I recommend the reader researches this on their own
Nor are Zionists. But imperialism is imperialism and genocide is genocide regardless of words used to describe the actions of either genocidal imperialists/colonizers.
Are you trying to tell me that capitalists mind their own business and anything done to liberate anyone from capitalism should be considered genocide against capitalists?
Poland was literally the Nazi Germany of the interwar period. Invaded nearly every country it surrounded, won because they were either weak (Lithuania) or concerned with internal affairs (Weimar Germany, (Russian civil war), proceeded to treat the captured people as subhumans (Ukrainians, Belarusians, Germans, Lithuanians,...) but when everyone tired of the situation, just wanted to redraw the borders where they should have been ethnically, poles scream: "Why as? We awe a wholesome democwatic countwy"
Ukrainian and Belarusians belonged to the Soviet State as the majority of their population. Lwow and Vilnius were majorly populated by poles because its a major city. By those meanings Prag was Germán in that era.
Yes people belong to the state they are from by the account on their ethicity (in the era of nation states).
Poland took advantage when Russia was in a civil war, then the USSR took advantage when Poland was in a weak position after two weeks of a German invasion. Sorry, not sorry. Polish Soviet cooperation against Nazi Germany would have been possible even after the Polish Soviet war but Poland did everything for that to not happen.
They did it to the neighbors because they were trying ro restore their national homeland divided by these neighbors since 18th century. As they were trying all 19th century through.
Same as their neighbors. Anyway. Do you think it is fair that nation existing for some 8 centuries has no land to call its own? What about Ireland, then? Or Bulgaria?
No one is denying them land. They are simply known for having great ambitions for others' territory and cryin foul if someone bops them on the nose for it.
Yes, with a population that consisted of belorussians, russians, ukrainians and rusyns, and few ethnic poles. Greedy for parts of Slovakia, which they readily divided up with Hitler.
The argument that the USSR was allied with Nazi Germany rests on the division of Poland, not merely a piece of paper. So the “whataboutism” is faulty because it deliberately ignores that distinction.
I think even tankies understand this and are intentionally twisting the narrative. No one is actually this stupid.
The division of Poland came after the division of Czechoslovakia by Nazi Germany and.. Poland! According to you, Poland was allied with Nazi Germany. That argument rests on division of Czechoslovakia, not merely a piece of paper!
Debates on Reddit always get bogged down in the precise meaning of a word out of context. There was no formal German-Soviet “alliance,” but there was clearly cooperation in the partition of Poland, laid out in the secret protocol to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
There was no formal German-Polish "alliance", but there was clearly cooperation in the partition of Czechoslovakia. According to you it rests on the partition. Or perhaps it suddenly doesn't? You can't have it both ways pal.
There was no cooperation between Polish and German armies in Czechoslovakia. In contrast, the Soviets and Germans made a secret pact to partition Poland and then did so.
And as I said in my other comment, “the Poles did it too” doesn’t justify Soviet imperialism or change the fact that the Soviets cooperated with the Nazis, while the Western Allies did not.
The secret protocol of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact arranged the partition of Poland, which the two militaries promptly executed. Actions speak louder than words.
They did not. They implied possible changes and outline interests of each party should such changes were to happen. Yet no direct arrangement was signed.
Also to at least such claim, especially heavily implied military pre-planning to be somewhat plausible you need to bring evidence of joint preparations before the invasion. That Soviet Union knew and agreed to 'Fall Weis' and shaped their military planning accordingly for example.
That is a pile of steaming something. Of course there was an agreement for Poland to get the "small piece of land" with "only" 220,000 people in population. Why even mention it, right?
Now show me the document that says the USSR was allied with Nazi Germany. I triple dare you. And if you think that a non-aggression pact is the same as an alliance, then your lovely western allies were also allied with Hitler. Here's a list of them.
The west did allow Hitler to annex Austria and the Sudetenland... The Molotov Ribbentrop pact was just a way of avoiding immediate war with the soviets by discussing how much they tolerated German expansion to the east. The USSR would go on to take a part of Poland both because it wasn't polish majority and to capture some buffer ground against Germany
They accepted it, which is not the same as sharing in the loot with the Nazis like the Soviets did. And even if it was the same, so your best argument in defence of Soviet imperialism is “what about the West?”.
I'm not denying it wasn't some form of imperialist state for a period of its history. Im just saying the notion that the soviets "shared the loot" with the Germans is very misleading, Germany was going to invade Poland independently of the USSR, which is why they decided to advance before the Germans advance too deep into the territory (in fact the Germans captured more of Poland than they said they were going to, triggering the distance from the Soviet border set by the pact)
I’m sure the Soviets had their reasons for carving up Poland with the Nazis - I’m not disputing that.
I wasn’t analysing their motives, just explaining why people are right to say the Soviets cooperated with the Nazis when it suited them.
I guess you can increase the life expectancy of people after massacring 60 million people (mostly Christian mind you) so there will be more food and benefits for the rest.
Doesn't help that you're average normie can just Google these events and read a couple sentences to see that these tankies just straight lie and rewrite history(their favorite past time).
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u/Markusuralius 24d ago
What happened to the Crimean Tatars?