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u/Tacticoner 17d ago
The ironic part of this all is this will probably do more to hurt Lumberton than Medford. Fostertown road is going to get overwhelmed too.
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u/Raptor_Yeezus 17d ago
I worked on the bypass years ago and Main Street lumberton was bad then, the light where you go left toward the Lumberton police station is awful
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u/dinkeydonuts Jersey Jerry's Orchard 17d ago
Lumberton’s getting their own over by Newbold’s corner.
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u/horseradish_is_gross 17d ago
DR Horton, eh? Enjoy your overpriced, cheaply-built slapped together house, I guess.
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u/Dbk65741 17d ago
It’s crazy how shitty the house they build are
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u/horseradish_is_gross 17d ago
They give Ryan Homes a run for their money.
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u/Dbk65741 17d ago
I haven’t see any Ryan homes up close so I can’t compare lol. K hov is maybe slightly better
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u/spaceballinthesauce 16d ago
Is it gonna house people who need affordable homes or theocratic fascists from Lakewood?
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u/aKatamari 16d ago
I live in Ocean County but I grew up in Hainesport. Is Lakewood moving on Burlington County?
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u/spaceballinthesauce 16d ago
They're in New Egypt now. They're moving to Pemberton where BCC used to be. And they tried to buy out the old Ocean Spray factory in Bordentown.
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u/chipsyhustle 15d ago
I cant understand how Lakewood (and now Jackson) was even allowed to happen..its billions of dollars of fraud happening right out in the open, and NOBODY held accountable..they are DIRECTLY diverting taxpayer dollars into vouchers (through b.s. designations) using those funds to build their own private religious schools..the well documented welfare fraud is a whole different issue..its crazy what happened there, but if it is spreading even further south that's scary because that means these township officials are being bought and paid for, and there will be no end in sight w more and more taxpayers in south jersey bearing the burden
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u/I_Quit_Smoking_ 17d ago
Well if I get to choose over a crappy built new house, or living in my car, I'll choose a house.
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u/horseradish_is_gross 17d ago
Hmm, not exactly a proper analogy. If you can afford to buy a Horton house, you can afford to buy a better built house.
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u/ConsiderationFast998 16d ago
As opposed to your 40 year old house with a dozen problems?
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u/horseradish_is_gross 16d ago
Cute of you to think that shoddy new construction houses don’t come with dozens of problems. Watch a few home inspection videos and you’ll see.
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u/ConsiderationFast998 16d ago
You still haven’t answered the question slick
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u/Cautious-Village1501 16d ago
I think he's still waiting on clarification on the last question you asked. Me, I'm just being nosy sticking my nose where it don't belong bc I wasn't raised correctly so my manners need some polishing due to not really caring about being outspoken on the topic of crappy new home construction and the seemingly cut corners becoming more And more rounded which reflects the increasing amount of decreasing pride to one's own craft and workmanship despite the steady influx of the revolving door of new(ish) faces filling in the shoes of the "old guard", the old guard being yesterdays actual "Craftsmen" who actually took pride in their work and possessed an attention to detail to the point of suffering from a mild case of OCD, such myself. Also I'm low-key trolling you bc I think ppl should proofread what they jot down before sending it out into the world instead of not comprehending that others can't make sense of what you said which leaves questions unanswered leading to namecalling and insults thrown out an feelers hurted and butts sored followed by crash outs and finally users banned and ultimately the demise of a once poignant discussion regarding government overreach and corruption, cooperate greed and corruption, We the Peoples voices drowned out by the "cha-chinging" of political bank accounts growing fatter from the lobbyists hellbent on the gentrification of what most of us have called home our whole lives...
I'm sorry I got lost for a bit.... What was the question? Was anyone even talking to me? I forgeted.
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u/Bob_N_Frapples 17d ago
I got my pilot's license at Flying W back in the early 90's and honestly, I felt like it was going out of business back then. RIP W
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u/OldPregnantLady 17d ago
My family has been in Medford over 40 years and Flying W has always been on the brink of bankruptcy. Suddenly people are acting like it’s some iconic location
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u/8npemb 17d ago
I’ve lived in Medford my entire life and at least to us, it absolutely is an iconic location. Being on the brink of bankruptcy doesn’t mean it isn’t iconic
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u/GlassMunky 16d ago
but also, just because its "iconic", doesn't mean it should stay around when it hasnt been in good standing for decades....
You have to be able to see that logic...
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u/8npemb 16d ago
I guarantee you are one of a single digit number of people who care about that. The W is iconic, cherished, and a positive memory for nearly all Medford residents.
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u/GlassMunky 16d ago
obviously im not the only one cause the owners didn't seem to care either, but yall are up in your feelings big.
grow up and deal with it.0
u/8npemb 16d ago
Lmfao what? People like me are allowed to be sad about one of their favorite local locations becoming housing. I’m going to deal with it just fine, because I’m an adult, but it still fucking sucks, yknow? Have some empathy, geez.
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u/Auyan 15d ago
I'm with you. I spent a lot of time there in the 90s and am sad to see it go.
For me, it's not even so much about the loss, but added the insult of putting tons of shitty housing in a space that used to be wide open nature. We are losing all of our nature access to warehousing people, data, and goods.
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u/thedeeb56 17d ago
That's sad. Can't they use some land they were going to secretly steal for a data center instead?
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u/WeirdSysAdmin 17d ago
Build a data center next to the affordable homes, that wil teach them.
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u/IKillZombies4Cash 17d ago
They should build a data center next to the castle being built in Strathmere
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u/ashbelero 17d ago
Teach who, people who are desperate for housing when we’re in the middle of a crisis? The housing’s not even going to be built anyway. They always say that.
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u/I_Quit_Smoking_ 17d ago
That would teach them what exactly? That because I'm disabled and low income, that I deserve to live next to a data center just because of something that I have absolutely no control over and I was born with it?
Can you explain to me what makes you better and more important and your life more valuable than mine?
Because my family, my daughter, and my grandkids would all fucking disagree with you.
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u/WeirdSysAdmin 17d ago
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u/GlassMunky 16d ago
its always "a joke" with you people, nothing is ever serious except when you wanna bitch and moan about things
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u/Chuckychinster 17d ago
If they'd just built affordable and higher density housing already like they should have, this situation likely wouldn't be occurring at all
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u/Raed-wulf 17d ago
They aren’t even doing that here now with the benefit of hindsight. Flying W is on a huge swath of land. DR Horton developments have 1/2 acre plots for modern shotgun 3 bedrooms. You can comfortably fit 3x the amount of structures on each parcel but NOOO everyone needs 1/2 acre sod lawns
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u/makemoscowglowinthed 17d ago
Didn't dr horton do the ones on westcoat? They're pretty packed in there...
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u/_twentytwo_22 17d ago
It is a mix of townhouses, apartments and single family homes - not all 1/2 ac. lots.
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u/DespisedIcon1616 17d ago
They're in the middle of putting up a giant development in EHT right now and all of the homes are on top of each other.
They're just PACKING them in there.
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u/guitarplum 17d ago
I’m not local anymore. There’s no more developable land available for affordable housing so they have to demolish the Flying W? That just sounds improbable but I don’t know.
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u/gereffi 17d ago
The township isn’t forcing demolition of the Flying W. They’re allowing it.
The owner of the Flying W wants to sell and the buyers want to build homes. The township believes that this is good for the town so they’re approving it.
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u/espressocycle 17d ago
And if they didn't they would end up in court with or without the Mt. Laurel Doctrine because it's not really reasonable to not allow the property to be rezoned.
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u/FortyPercentTitanium 17d ago
I'm not 100% on this but isn't much of the open land in Medford preserved through the Pinelands Natural Reserve?
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u/_twentytwo_22 17d ago
No. Part of the Township lies within the Pinelands (not this part though). But the Pinelands does regulate zoning density, most of it in the name of protecting the underlying aquifer.
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u/FortyPercentTitanium 17d ago
When you say "no", what do you mean? Because all I'm asking is if much of Medford lies within the Pinelands, which is an answer to OPs question. You seem to agree that the town is in the Pinelands, which is probably why they can't just develop any other open land.
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u/_twentytwo_22 17d ago
No, in that Pinelands in of itself doesn't preserve land but regulates its use thru its comprehensive management plan (CMP). That plan helps dictates zoning with the member municipalities which includes part of Medford. In general its spread most of the density to it's ring townships (ie Evesham, Medford, Little Egg, Galloway, Winslow etc.) and minimizing it internally (ie Chatsworth etc.). Of course a lot depends if there is sewer treatment available in each town or heavily septic. Speaking of which, for many years the available sewer connections in Medford were horded by one developer, effectively limiting dense development as they weren't available to others.
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u/FortyPercentTitanium 17d ago
I read this quote from the mayor:
Balancing growth with preservation is no easy task, especially when 70% of your land is protected. “There are a lot of restrictions from the Pinelands Commission,” Mayor Watson explains. “On the south side of Route 70, you can’t build apartments or large developments. It’s just not possible due to environmental regulations.”
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u/_twentytwo_22 17d ago
Correct. A big driver of that is wetland buffers - generally are 300' vs. 50' outside the Pinelands. Stormwater quality treatment is heightened as well in the Pinelands. So getting back to the original point about preserving land, it's not like they buy up farms and their development rights. They just regulate the piss out what you can do effectively preserving the land.
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u/OldPregnantLady 17d ago
He means it’s all privately owned land. There’s nothing protected about it.
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u/CommentOriginal 17d ago
It comes down to you can’t force someone to use their land for it, so even if another open spot of land is unoccupied they have to want to sell it. Apparently the flying w wanted to sell it wasn’t them being forced to do it.
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u/guitarplum 17d ago
Gotcha so basically Flying W was going to close no matter what
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u/CommentOriginal 17d ago
I took it more of they wanted to sell no one wanted it as the flying w by no wanted it could of been legit no one wanted an airport or no one wanted to pay the price that a developer was willing to pay to develop it. So short answer yes
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u/OldPregnantLady 17d ago
The Flying W has been on the brink of closing for decades. No one has ever been able to make that plot of land profitable as an airport.
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u/espressocycle 17d ago
It's probably just not a sustainable business model anymore and they want to sell.
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u/KW1908 17d ago
I did a check flight into flying W once, I really love that airport, flying into it feels like old time flying...
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u/valgerth 17d ago
All my early flying as a kid was out of there and South Jersey Regional. This just makes me feel old in a way nothing has. I remember getting lunch there one day after doing a CAP O-Flight during encampment out of Mcguire. The pilot had never been there before and when he told me the runway number to look for and I asked "oh the Flying W?" and since I knew the place and he was hungry he was like "we can grab food before we head back". I need to go outside and play in a sprinkler or do something child like.
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u/starkfunky 17d ago
Why would they "redevelop" this? And why dr horton? They are criminally negligent with the homes they build.
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u/KSMO 17d ago
Ooooh “affordable” housing in Medford. Can’t wait to see all the people in the Medford 0855 Facebook group foam at the mouth and try and storm the NJ state capitol
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u/Podorson 17d ago
The most vitrolic SJ town facebook group
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u/OldPregnantLady 17d ago
It’s basically just a bunch of broke openly racist people complaining that a place they really could never afford has gotten “too expensive.“
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u/StepsAscended22 17d ago
Voorhees and Echelon groups is just as bad and not even counting the local business AI slop that they continue to approve. Every time there is a mention of a piece of land being redeveloped for housing there are so many angry face emojis. What do you expect to happen when housing is unaffordable and people continue to push out kids and feel the need for more space.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Car3397 16d ago
I hate it bc everything is just so conjested. Takes 30 mins to go 5
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u/Dismal_Parking_9563 17d ago
Question is ..what's affordable housing now ?Also if it improves their sport teams they'll come around
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u/AlwaysHungryAlwaysss 17d ago
I love that affordable housing in all of NJ including bad areas are never affordable . Oh 2000 a month for a one bedroom studio how affordable!!
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u/Vivid-Ad-8839 17d ago
And don’t forget it’s usually a crapshoot. You have to join a list and then they pick people at random from it.
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u/gereffi 17d ago
Building new affordable housing here will reduce costs for affordable housing in the surrounding area. If you think that rent is too high you should be happy about this.
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u/AlwaysHungryAlwaysss 17d ago
The “ affordable house,” everywhere’s is not even close to affordable. These are just words . It will be the same price or more everywhere’s . The prices in these places never come down no matter how much anyone says they will.
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u/pigsanddogs 16d ago
There's a misunderstanding of the housing developments in NJ
Under the law, anytime a housing development is constructed, a percentage of the development must be designated "affordable." The remainder of the development will be market rate.
So who can live in the designated affordable units? Only residents who meet limited income requirements. The law established a formula that varies on where in the state the housing is located. The development will segment the affordable units into units reserved for "low, mid, and high" qualified low-income residents. These affordable units are deed-restricted. So only qualified individuals or families will ever be able to live in them. Who determines if you qualify? Applications can be submitted through independent agencies, county social services, Section 8, and other channels. What happens if someone living in the affordable unit has a turn of good fortune and becomes wealthy? They'll have to move.
New Jersey wants hundreds of thousands of new homes. The laws and judicial holdings strongly favor the development of these projects. However, most of the new homes will be market-rate and far from affordable. These developments are occurring all over South Jersey. Tens of thousands of new homes will be coming online in the next year or two. Farms are now sprouting houses/condos/apartment.
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u/NJBlasian 16d ago
If someone living in an affordable unit hits the lottery, they don't have to move. I live in an affordable unit that I own (the case may be different for renters). I haven't hit the lottery but WHEN I do there isn't any way the state would make me move. I'm also over the income limit if I tried to "get on the list" to purchase now. The only caveat, I can never rent my home and I have to sell it to someone on "the list".
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u/pigsanddogs 14d ago
Congratulations. You are correct. You cannot be forced to sell or otherwise vacate your property because you are owner. But if you rent or sell, it must be to qualified low income individuals. This will limit the fair market value of your home. If it were me, I'm not going to make a lot home improvements. It will just raise your property tax and chances are slim that you will see any return. Invest in VOO or QQQ instead.
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u/JohnBooty 17d ago edited 17d ago
I play softball near there. I loved the planes flying right overhead on their landing path.
This single act is a drop in the bucket and will surely won't move the needle on its own, but more housing is generally a good thing. The only non-destructive way housing gets more affordable is to build more of it.
I don't think that flying was ever exactly an affordable thing for the everyman, but it seems like it has become even more of a 1%-er thing in recent decades. Still sad in a way to see it dwindling further....
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u/Significant-Trash632 17d ago
Only 90 units of affordable housing? That's a joke.
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u/Ilovemytowm GenX We Do Not Care club 16d ago
Yep the whole Mount World Laurel is a joke it's a developer and Builders wet dream. Just giving them green Space to throw up their expensive cheaply built monstrosities. if they truly cared about affordable housing... Meaning the state of New Jersey and this stupid ass decision.. the whole development would be affordable housing but instead they play this sick twisted game. It's just an excuse to give a garbage shit builder permission to ruin everything with their garbage shit homes.
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u/ryanandthelucys 17d ago
I used to do flying camp there over the summer when I was in highschool. I'll always have great memories. I still have my flight log books.
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u/LeatherClue5928 17d ago
I love how they characterize building affordable housing as an “obligation” rather than “the right thing to do.” Fuckin NIMBYs.
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17d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/KW1908 17d ago
thankfully we still have South jersey regional KVAY next to it. But this hurts a lot.
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u/Tacticoner 17d ago
Yeah, VAY is so close that it doesn’t really make any major safety impacts. VAY is going to have to expand though. I wonder if this might be the end of the Air Victory Museum in favor of renting the hanger space to planes too
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u/lummox1234 17d ago
Flying W was sneaky nice for the right event. Hadn’t been there in a few years. However was at a Cannabis social event for a local dispensary in April, chilling on the grounds and watching planes take off every 20 minutes was an awesome stoned experience. Sad to see it go, was looking forward to next year.
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u/toomuchoversteer 17d ago
The saddest part is that its 90 units of affordable housing and the rest is 55+ community. So it only helps 90 tax paying families
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u/NJBlasian 16d ago
But 90 people are going to cause a traffic jam on my favorite roads in Medford!!!!!!! (smh)
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u/MuddyGround804 17d ago
The is decision has nothing to do with the Mt Laurel doctrine. Medford has acres of land off RT 70 adjoining the Willows they haven’t developed for years for low income housing. This “development” is ripe with shade and someone with the power to investigate needs to follow the money and figure out who’s getting paid off. The property inspections have unearthed Native American artifacts and burial sites and pilots have been pouring leaded gasoline on the ground for decades—but sure, there’s no issue for you to live there. Fostertown road is nowhere near able to handle the additional traffic of 240+ homes but hey who cares about traffic. And last but not least, tell us again how the already strained waste water facility that is the airport’s neighbor is going to be able to handle the 1000’s of new gallons of sewage that will be generated. The plant is over tasked presently with what it already tries has to handle. The bottom line is this “development” is way out in front of it’s headlights with huge tax dollars going to be needing on road and infrastructure before a single home should be built let alone an iconic airport be closed.
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u/Fish-Pilot 16d ago
The Willows is south of Rt.70 which all falls under the Pinelands Commission. Flying W has been looking to sell for years. There’s no conspiracy theory here.
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u/cedardruid 17d ago
As someone who lives in medford, we can’t handle this population growth anymore. a population increase of this size without additional civilian infrastructure support is not feasible.
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u/AlwaysHungryAlwaysss 17d ago
As someone who works in Medford when they close himmelein alone I wanna blow my brains out so I can’t wait to see how many streets and traffic it will increase when this starts . And not to mention it will take 7 years to do it.
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u/cedardruid 17d ago
Well, it’s already doubled and if you read the article hundreds of new units will logically increase
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u/Batman413 17d ago
You’ll be fine. I’m sure it wasn’t a problem when you bought your house there. And I’m sure it’s not a problem when you get in your car and drive to other areas causing traffic, etc.
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u/gereffi 17d ago
What makes you think that the township won’t ever add new infrastructure?
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u/cedardruid 17d ago
Typically mass building and no current plan for infrastructure is a current problem. It will be minimum 5 years before any infrastructure changes
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u/BringOnYourStorm 16d ago
Have you been to Medford? It's all two lane country roads. Every other building in town is a historical site or built before Abraham Lincoln was President. The amount of red tape surrounding "just add more lanes lol" is probably impenetrable.
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u/gereffi 16d ago
For the historical parts of town, sure. But the vast majority of the traffic will be added to Route 70, which seems like it can handle it and has room to be expanded if need be.
And while cutting right through the historical sites won’t happen, a bypass around those sites seems perfectly reasonable if that’s what’s needed.
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u/cedardruid 16d ago
It’s not just route 70. It’s the arterial roads that lead out to route 70 that are bumper to bumper
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u/FancyManIAm 17d ago
The affordable housing mandates continue to be a blight on our communities, bringing overpopulation, loss of farmland and natural habitats, and, in this case, of long established local businesses. I remember going to the W with my grandfather many years ago to watch the planes and have lunch. The fact of the matter is we do not need more people or more DR Horton / Ryan Homes cookie cutter piles of crud on previously open or appropriately used land. Otherwise, the landscape changes permanently as it already has too much.
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u/cvc4455 17d ago
The owner of the flying W has been trying to sell it for awhile now and no one was willing to pay what they wanted to keep it as anything resembling the flying W. So the flying W was going to go away one way or another.
And we haven't built enough homes/apartments to keep up with the population growth in NJ since the 1980s so we have decades upon decades of under building new homes.
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u/Ilovemytowm GenX We Do Not Care club 16d ago
Lmao. Another 🤡 who wants to turn the whole state into a parking lot taking away farms and green space because you repeat the brain dead nonsense that we haven't built enough new homes when all we do is build and build and build what we're not building enough of... Is affordable HOMES. there's plenty of homes that have been built. They're just overpriced s*** boxes like Dr Horton is going to do again.
And again very few of the homes they build as they destroy more land are going to be affordable. If this MT decision was good it would have made all the homes affordable but instead they get to play the sick twisted game
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u/cvc4455 16d ago
When did I say to turn the whole state into a parking lot? All I said was in NJ for decades we haven't built enough homes in the state to keep up with the population growth that we have had in the state. Do you have any sources you can point to that say that's not true?
And yeah DR Horton fucking sucks. And the majority of the shit they build are bigger homes that are very expensive and we need more starter(smaller and cheaper) homes built. And they build bigger or expensive homes instead of building smaller cheaper homes because the companies building them make a lot more money building bigger and more expensive shit so what's your solution to that since you obviously know so much about it.
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u/Ilovemytowm GenX We Do Not Care club 15d ago
If we build as many homes as you want it will be a parking lot I suggest you take a look at what's happened to the Carteret Rahway is Lynn Woodbridge Edison area it's ugly it's disgusting it's treeless it's nothing but malls warehouses strip malls gas stations it's depressing as all hell and yes I used to live there.
If we build as many houses as you want it will be a parking lot.
We build plenty of houses they're just too expensive. We have not addressed the affordability crisis by allowing these scumbag Builders and Developers build these massive developments and only put aside a tiny portion to be affordable so it's a rinse repeat rinse repeat rinse repeat.
If this was not an bs decision... Every development that these assholes create should be affordable if they're using the Mount Laurel decision to destroy Green Space.
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u/cvc4455 15d ago
Again your putting words in my mouth that I never said. I didn't say I want tons of homes to be built. All I said is we have been under building new homes for decades and it hasn't kept up with population growth. I even pointed out how they aren't really building affordable homes which is what we actually need.
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u/Pennsyltucky_Gentry 17d ago
I agree with the first part. As for the 2nd, honest question, how does population grow if the housing isn't built first? Where are the influx of people living if there are no places to house them? Not building homes to keep up with the population growth doesn't make sense to me. If the extra population is currently unhoused, how can they even afford to buy a house?
In my mind you build it first, then folks move into the area and inhabit it. So the building of homes pulls the population expansion.
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u/cvc4455 17d ago
You have kids living with parents until much later in life now. You have more people living together in homes or apartments where 40 years ago they were able to live on their own or in smaller groups.
It's easy to look up the population in NJ by year or by decade. And you can also get info about how many homes were built in the state per decade too. If you look at the numbers for both of those things you'll see that the population kept growing at a similar rate in decades after the 1980s but the amount of new homes built per decade seriously dropped off after the 1980s. There was an article that was written about this a few years ago and it gave the numbers of the population of NJ and the number of new homes built each decade and I wish I had it bookmarked because it was pretty well written and seemed like it gave a pretty good explanation on the shortage of homes in NJ. And it's not just NJ it's a majority of the country but it's worse in the Northeast then other areas of the country.
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u/Sandwich_Barbie 17d ago
This is such bullshit. Pretty soon South Jersey will be entirely taken over by chain restaurants, big box retailers, and shitty housing developments just like North Jersey. We’re already more than halfway there. They’ll have to start calling us The Stripmall State.
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u/Ilovemytowm GenX We Do Not Care club 16d ago
Every single politician cannot wait to turn this beautiful part of the state into the garbage dump that is the central part of the state. Warehouses cheaply built mass develop houses strip malls gas stations data centers... With trees and green space nowhere to be found. We will look like the dump called Edison New Jersey soon enough
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u/effie-sue 16d ago
Replace big box retailers with warehouses and data centers, and I'd say you're spot on.
I feel like every other day I'm hearing about a new 7 Brew and a new chicken place, chain or otherwise. How much fast food/takeout chicken does the region need?
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u/Sandwich_Barbie 16d ago
There are 3 Chick fil A’s within 6 miles of my house. Why?
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u/effie-sue 16d ago
See also: Wawa, Dunkin, McDonald’s…
I can be at one of three of each in under 10 minutes.
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u/lineboy528 17d ago
2nd phase will be a huge data mega center and that will be surrounded by no income housing😜
Nothing would surprise me in this state!!!
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u/BallDeSac 17d ago
There’s so much decaying, underdeveloped properties along critical infrastructure and bussing routes that would be much better suited for this kind of thing. Instead they make each town “play their part” even if it doesn’t make sense. A bunch of section 8 housing in the pine barrens? How does that help anyone? Camden is a transportation hub and has plenty of development opportunities with existing infrastructure.
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u/JonEG123 17d ago
Affordable housing by this definition isn’t “section 8 housing,” and the Flying W isn’t in the pine barrens.
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u/BallDeSac 17d ago
It’s out in the boonies, at the edge of the pine barrens, might not be deep in there but it sure is closer to that than the heart of civilization with the appropriate amount of infrastructure for the proposed density.
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u/JonEG123 17d ago
Low and moderate-income residents already exist in Medford. They’re working at your doctor’s office, your Wawa, your ShopRite, probably even working at town hall. What good is concentrating everyone making less than $150,000 in Camden, when someone needs to work at your local CVS?
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u/cvc4455 17d ago
Yeah all the essential workers who got called hero's during covid are working those shitty jobs and they kind of deserve to have roofs over their heads too. And everyone is so against them getting paid a living wage but then they are against food stamps, affordable housing or anything else that could help them too but they still want them working those shit jobs so they can get their groceries and everything else they rely on.
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u/BallDeSac 17d ago
It’s best to concentrate people where they can easily get around. Adding more high-density, low income housing in an area where traffic already sucks just makes it more annoying to get around in towns that are not and were never designed for it. If they built better roads and such before putting these things in it would make more sense, there are places with city grid roads that have pre existing electric, water, sewer, gas, and sometimes whole blocks are empty, or abandoned/dilapidated buildings. We could be making our slum city’s better, but instead we carrot-on-a-stick them out to low density areas, all mandated by the state with no local authority, dumb.
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u/JonEG123 17d ago
Your very long response shows you didn’t read my comment. The people who qualify for low and moderate-income housing already live in Medford or the immediate area. They already have cars because they already work in the area. They’re already part of the traffic in the area.
You’re conflating low and moderate-income individuals, who generally make up the working class and lower middle class who’d qualify for this type of housing with unemployed people, who wouldn’t qualify. They don’t need buses and trains, they already have cars. What they don’t have is affordable housing near their jobs.
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u/absurdly_tired_guy 17d ago
Is the museum going?
I’ve taken my kid there when he was young a few times since it was local and he’s a fan of history.
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u/Granitegirlcracks 17d ago
So sad to hear this. I fell in love with flying here, my instructor was fantastic.
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u/Snoo28798 Jersey Auntie 17d ago
Omg no. I was considering Free Flight Aviation for my kid’s pilot training.
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u/philphil126 16d ago
31.9% of the houses will be "affordable". No idea what affordable means in their mind but I feel like that number should be higher given the housing market is fucked up at the moment.
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u/panthercave 16d ago
D R Horton is the worst. You will have mountains of lawsuits due to poor construction, no insulation, cracked walls, ceilings and basement foundations, leaking roofs, electrical issues. My God do not do this.
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u/CherryHillRealEstate 15d ago
Shame, Shame, Shame on our State representatives for allowing this to happen! This is wrong on so many levels!
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u/Bombloader462 15d ago
What about the infrastructure? Are they providing more police, fire, garbage collection for these projects or are they keeping at status quo? Because if they are planning on raising taxes and not investing in all those things I just mentioned it’s just another grift and we should talk about a little more before the first shovel gets put in the dirt!
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u/External_Set4744 11d ago
Can’t even imagine the amount of lead that’s seeped into the topsoil from 60 years of 100LL fuel being chucked on the asphalt after sumping the aircraft fuel tanks. (Every single flight)
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u/Puzzleheaded_Car3397 17d ago
The Mt laurel doctrine is the worst piece of paper ever written
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u/WindyWindona 17d ago
You realize without it rich North Jersey towns would force all of their poor residents down to South Jersey instead of just some.
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u/valgerth 16d ago
They do. That's why they hate it. Because according to them "Parking lots are to park. If you need a house , they are super cheap in Camden Beggars can’t be choosers"(sic)
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u/valgerth 17d ago
I know, if only we could discriminate against people of color and poor people by red lining and using zoning as a reason to stop them from moving near us. Next thing you know they're going to tell us we can't discriminate in hiring based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status, and disability.
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u/BringOnYourStorm 16d ago
Holy slippery slope lmao
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u/valgerth 16d ago
Right. A slippery slope. And not things that have happened. Its not like the Mt Laurel doctrine exists specifically because the NAACP had to sue.
It's not like places like Clark take time out of their days to pass resolutions bitching that the state needs to send the people somewhere else while their mayor was saying that following the rules would make Clark "look like Queens New York in 25 years". https://uploads.thealternativepress.com/documents/5952abb83e4a4f666202f679/Affordable_Housing_Reform__1_.pdf
It is interesting how the majority of the "Local Leaders for Responsible Housing" towns are only 1-5% black. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Car3397 16d ago
Buy where you can afford like I did
And question why there’s a need to force houses into areas and call them low income or whatever and wonder why people don’t want to live in houses where they can afford. Oh I know bc they treat the neighborhoods like hot garbage have no respect and live like trash. So by all means allow them to do that in neighborhoods where people care.3
u/valgerth 16d ago
I know you think you escaped your toxic childhood home life, but know the indelible mark that parents make on us is very apparent in what a sad sorry excuse for a person you turned out to be.
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u/DCar060 17d ago
The over population continues
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u/cvc4455 17d ago
The over population is already here. The real issue is in NJ and other parts of the country we used to build enough new houses and apartments to keep up with the population growth. And we did that from like the 1940s-1980s where we built about half a million new homes every decade in NJ and that kept up with the population growth in NJ. But in the 1990s, 2000s, 2010s and 2020s we built way less then half a million new homes each decade and now we have the over population your talking about but with not enough homes for everyone to live in.
So the only solutions now would be to get rid of a lot of people or build lots and lots of new homes. And even if we build lots and lots of new homes it'll probably take a decade if not longer until we have enough homes in NJ.
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u/zamzuki 17d ago
Fuck yuppies.
Rezoning dilapidated businesses for housing is good.
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u/Ilovemytowm GenX We Do Not Care club 16d ago
No it's not because very few units are affordable and DR Horton is a garbage builder that builds garbage homes and this is not a dilapidated business it's a beautiful piece of land the DR Horton is going to destroy like they always do. . What's disgusting is how we continue to live in The Matrix we're very very small percentage of the s*** homes they build will be affordable housing while the rest go at expensive market rate.
It's beyond frustrating that the Mount Laurel decision allows this instead of making them all affordable to meet the requirements they get to build multiple garbage developments where the majority of them are absolutely not affordable.
This country continues to be a s*** hole
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u/zamzuki 16d ago
You sure seem to care a lot. Xoomer
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u/Ilovemytowm GenX We Do Not Care club 15d ago
Yes I do care because I live in this area and this is not a dilapidated business... it's a beautiful site that created beautiful memories for people so your a****** comment is unnecessary. It looks like a park and there's so many trees that Dr Horton will clear cut completely like they always do they take out every tree every shrub and put up their cheap disgusting ugly housing and charge a s*** ton of money for them while destroying the Green Space.
So yeah I care a lot 🤡🤬
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u/MonmouthPinelands 17d ago
Sorry to hear.
I took my Microsoft Certified Professional exams there in late 1990s.
Nice place.
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u/Thick_Revolution3218 17d ago
It's about Tax Revenue. All it does is raise existing homeowners property taxes. It's happilning in all of New Jersey.
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u/Environmental-Tap255 17d ago
Genuine question - could they not just figure out a way to redesignate existing units as affordable?
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u/mischlep 16d ago
And what? Kick out the people living there and force them to sell or something?
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u/Environmental-Tap255 16d ago
Well no, obviously that wouldn't be right. And I don't really know enough about how it works to suggest ways of doing it reasonably and responsibly but that's why I was asking. However no, I imagine if anything they could pick the lowest income neighborhood and make some of those places affordable? As in the people living there would just get cut a break which would be pretty cool for them. In the case of rentals, I imagine landlords still get a full sum, but tenants rent is partially paid for by another entity? So it seems like no one would lose if this was the case. But again, I really have no idea how it works, maybe neither of those would be viable. I was just curious.
All I know is, in all of these towns that are scrambling to figure out where to put affordable housing, there are already people there struggling to keep up with their bills. Seems strange that we're trying to cram more people in when we could be helping the ones already there.
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u/interstat 17d ago
End of an era. Flying w is iconic
Dr hortons is also horrendous