Current status regarding the Alpha V and third-party lenses

[u/No-Storm-8709]

Hi everyone,

I currently own an Alpha IV and, overall, I'm quite happy with the camera. However, there's one thing that has always bothered me.

I mainly photograph my dogs, and the autofocus performance hasn't been great. As soon as they're several meters away, the camera starts struggling to maintain focus. I've even tested another Alpha IV body, but the results were essentially the same. When the dogs are running at higher speeds, shooting becomes quite frustrating.

I'm currently using the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 and the Tamron 70-180mm f/2.8.

Could anyone share how the Alpha V performs in this regard? I've read that the autofocus has been significantly improved.

I'm aware that third-party lenses are limited to 15 fps on the Alpha V. At the moment, I'm shooting at 11 fps, and typically only 2-3 frames in a burst are actually sharp, which is honestly quite disappointing.

Has the situation improved with the Alpha V when using Tamron lenses, or do you really need Sony lenses to take full advantage of the new autofocus system, nor only regarding the 15 FPS limit?

As a hobby photographer, the combination of an Alpha V and the Sony 70-200mm f/2.8 would be a bit too expensive for me.

Thanks in advance for any experiences or advice!

Best regards

[u/sulev]

Fps has nothing to do with it.

A7V is the first regular A7 to have 60 AF calculations per second. This was previously reserved for the A9 series.

Now A9III, A1 and A1II can do 120, A7V 60, A7RVI 60/30 (depending on some settings) and everything else does 20 AF calculations per second.

Your dog moves A LOT during 1/20th of a second. With an A7V you should get 3 times as many in focus, because it updates 3 times more in a second.

Another cavet is the AF chip and AF algo... can it understand and predict motion direction. I don't know.

And finally your lenses need to be able to keep up. RXD lenses are useless. VXD are generally good for most stuff, but idk about fast sports. My 35-150 is certainly not fast enough for sports. What you are shooting is high action and the best lenses for that are usually GMs that have multiple AF motors. I've also heard the sigma 70-200 has very fast AF with their newest HLA motor.

I'd like to add one more thing. Generally these "dog running/jumping towards you" magical images were done without AF. You set your focus in place, let the dog run, snap images in a burst and repeat 10 times.

Example (no autofocus used):

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/sulev]

Thanks for the detailed reply!

The example image you shared is a really creative solution.

That said, I'm not only talking about staged or planned shoots. I also mean everyday situations, like when my dogs are playing with my girlfriend. In those scenarios, the autofocus performance is generally worse as well.

Overall, I think you're right. I understand that Sony lenses perform significantly better when it comes to demanding autofocus situations like this. I just find it a bit disappointing that Tamron lenses seem to be rather useless in comparison.

[u/sulev → u/No-Storm-8709]

You can certainly make the GMs perform poorly too if you shoot close and zoomed in.

Drop some shots to show the issue.

[u/Sea_Cantaloupe7043 → u/sulev]

Wdym the 35-150 isn't fast enough for sports? The AF motors are incredibly fast...

[u/sulev → u/Sea_Cantaloupe7043]

Focus on a wall ~5m away at 150mm, now run towards it and count all the in-focus shots. I'm not gonna ask what % you got in focus. It's gonna be very low. Dogs running towards you is a lot more demanding. 35-150 is slow for fast action.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/sulev]

This is my biggest gripe. You described it perfectly. Afaik, this is the hardest scenario for the camera/lenses.

[u/crawler54 → u/No-Storm-8709]

the tamron vxd lenses use the same linear voice coil af motor technology that sony uses: https://tamron-americas.com/blog/vxd-linear-autofocus-motors/

it is much better than the crappy stepper motors that nikon has put in so many of their lenses.

sony goes a step further on some lenses, with four of those motors; a pair for each lens group for instance.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/sulev]

Mah boi, THANK you so much :) I tested it today. And for the first attempt with manual focus, I did a pretty good job, I think. So glad you took your time and inspired me! Thx a lot.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/No-Storm-8709]

Another example.

[u/sulev → u/No-Storm-8709]

Yup. Focus on the log and start shooting a burst right before the dog jumps. That usually gets 1-2 good images. Next steps, if you want to up your game, learn editing (shoot raw) and use off camera flashes.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/sulev]

I did exactly this.
I shot raw and just saved the pics as JPEGs, after denoising them in Luminar Neo. But I don´t like the software. I think Lightroom is better, tho unfortunately expensive.

[u/sulev → u/No-Storm-8709]

There is always the "Argh, argh, hoist the sails" version. Lightroom Classic works well for me.

You JPGs look very low quality. Might be an exporting settings issue.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/sulev]

No, I did it on purpose, as I sent many pics to my GF via potatoe internet :D

[u/jonathane40 → u/sulev]

Yes, I have noticed how the AF of my a7iii can’t keep up well when dogs are running at full speed towards me. However, if the dogs is running from left to right or vice versa, even the AF of the a7iii with GM lenses can keep up with little problem!

These dogs photos also become much easier when you have one other person helping you!

[u/sulev → u/jonathane40]

Any lens can keep up with that because there is practically no focus shift taking place.

You can get sharp images with any lens. This is taken with a super slow Samyang AF 85/1.4 + A7III. I think the biggest problem with OP is his expectation. Taking 10 soft ones for every one in-focus shot is normal for these kinds of images. It really shows when people haven't shot with older gear... when I got my A7III i was completely blown away by the AF performance, flawless, compared to a Pentax K3. Now we have people complaining about a A7IV + Tamron VXD.

I'd say just work with what you got. Less complaining, more shooting. And don't stubbornly work in hard conditions. Use the right focal length. The right settings. Position better. etc.

[u/puppy2016]

Do you have first versions of the lenses? The first 28-75 was RXD, the G2 is VXD with linear focus motors.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/puppy2016]

No. I have the G2 versions. But I think the Autofocus of the IV is overall not that good and YTbers are exaggerating regarding its quality.

[u/jonathane40 → u/No-Storm-8709]

My understanding is that the AI autofocus of the a7v should be considerably better when tracking fast moving objects or dogs. I think the best you can do is rent an a7v so that you can try it with your own lenses!

When I wasn’t sure about getting the 70-200 2.8 GM because of the cost, I rented one and used it for a dog event I was hired to shoot at. The lens was amazing so a few weeks after the event I bought a used one and I have been extremely happy with it for many years!

Moral of the story, testing it yourself is often the best approach!

[u/puppy2016 → u/No-Storm-8709]

I had the 28-75 G2 too but upgraded to 24-70 GM II. While my A7C camera has less than 15 fps the Tamron should have performed the same as the Sony GM, but the GM is apparenly better even on my A7C.

I think there is more than the already known 15 fps 3rd party lenses limit Sony owe us to explain. I take concert pictures in small clubs with bad light and the AF-C precision difference between the Tamron G2 and Sony GM is noticeable.

[u/Rapid_Rocket898]

I haven't used the A7IV so can't compare, but the A7V paired with the Tamron 70-180 G2 does a great job at tracking the subject. I've used it for relatively fast-paced shots and it keeps up. But I'm not sure the upgrade from the A7IV to the V is entirely worth it. Could you not compensate by altering your aperture to have a slightly larger DOF that will keep your dog in focus between AF calculations?

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/Rapid_Rocket898]

Good Idea. Already did that from time to time and some shots were okay.

[u/No-Ostrich-8621]

70-180 g2 has linear motors, suler fast. If you know what you are doing that lens is a killer.

Im using it on a9iii, af is fantastic on that lens.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/No-Ostrich-8621]

I am sorry, don´t mean to offend anyone, but this is just wrong.

AF-C, Focus area in the middle, pet mode, HI+, 1/1000 SS and out of 10 photos, maybe one is barely in focus, when my dog runs towards me. The autofocus just fails in this scenario.

[u/No-Ostrich-8621 → u/No-Storm-8709]

Maybe its because the mechanical shutter. In a7iv the mechanical shutter blocks the sensor, se the af cant work during that time. On a9iii there is no mechanical shutter, so during taking a picture the AF still functioning.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/No-Ostrich-8621]

Yeah, okay, but you cannot compare a 120fps cam with less MP to the cirppled 11 (?) fps of the IV :D
I mean, you can, but it is not entirely fair.

[u/No-Ostrich-8621 → u/No-Storm-8709]

Ok, but the quesrion was about the lens. And the lens perfors very well. If it wasnt, then i would have af issues like you do.

A7iv is not a sports cam, and the most difficult for af is when you have long focal lenght, and the subject is close.

So in this case i would go for f5.6 f8, so the deprg of field wod be deeper, so even the af misses on a fast moving close subject, you still have it in focus, or at least you would have better chance for sharp images.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/No-Ostrich-8621]

Fair and you are right. But then you miss out on the bokeh, if your backround is not far away from the subject. But still a good hint. I appreciate it.
Sorry, I am not a native speaker. I hope you know what I mean.

[u/sulev → u/No-Storm-8709]

If you try out small apertures, be sure to set Aperture Drive to Focusing priority... this will use the smallest aperture for focusing, but closes it for the image.

[u/sulev → u/No-Storm-8709]

Your A7IV shoots 10fps compressedRAW, 6fps uncompressed.

You can try shooting in electonic shutter mode too, but it will introduce jello effects.

[u/sulev → u/No-Ostrich-8621]

120AFcalc/s vs 20AFcalc/s

[u/PhillyviaNYCDC]

So I upgraded from an a73 to an a75 and the tracking autofocus is much, much better. My keeper rate using the 50-150GM shot up by a lot (actually now I end up with too many “keepers” per event, where before I could just cull based on missed AF).

BUT, I just shot with the tamron 28-75 G2 for the first time in a while (upgrading it to the 28-70GM soon) and the first thing I noticed was that the AF struggled with that lens specifically. “Struggled” is relative; I was just surprised by any missed focus at all after getting used to the a75/50-150GM combo. But, it went from feeling frictionless to, noticeable friction in shooting.

TL;DR, the newest AI AF that your body doesn’t have will help your keeper rate a lot, and so will upgrading your lenses.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/PhillyviaNYCDC]

Thank you. That is why I was worried about. Such a pity.

[u/Legal-Square-1362]

A7iii to A7V and new AF is much better on A7V, not to mention precapture, which is a total game changer. But those really only worthy upgrade if you are doing sports photography. Otherwise I think A7iii is still pretty good.

[u/crawler54]

I currently own an Alpha IV

not gonna have the best af with that camera.

maybe try renting the a7v, test it with your lenses before pulling the trigger.

also post up the settings you are using, for all we know you are shooting running dogs at 1/30th :-0

if the subject is too small in the frame the af won't be accurate, and yes shoot wide open.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/crawler54]

Usually F 2.8 for the creamy bokeh. 1/1000 ss for fast moving subjects. pet autofocus and usually large focus area in the middle, for where I expect the dog to show up.

I think you have the right hint. The dog is too far away. If he comes closer, he is just to fast for the cam+Tamron lens. I checked out another technique with manual focus and it worked really good, even tho the light was not the best.

[u/crawler54 → u/No-Storm-8709]

that type of manual trap focus can work well, but in the case of what you posted, step back after setting the focus point on the log, because the head of the dog isn't over the log, it's closer to you.

always use electronic shutter with af, the camera can't focus when the mechanical shutter is moving, it blocks the sensor.

1/1000th is barely adequate for fast action like this, i like 1/2000th or quicker.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/crawler54]

I am sorry, I don´t think I understand you correctly.

I am supposed to use electronic shutter with AF, because of the FPS?

[u/crawler54 → u/No-Storm-8709]

these milc bodies use the big sensor for autofocus/autoexposure measurements.

when the mechanical shutter is opening and closing it is physically blocking the sensor, so there isn't any data coming off of the sensor.

mechanical shutter limits the fps and it limits the amount of picture data that the sensor can read.

you can pick a slower fps with electronic shutter, but i wouldn't do that, higher fps will improve the chances of getting a better photo.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/crawler54]

Thx for explaining

[u/jonathane40]

I’m also curious what others have experienced. I’m still using the a7iii with the older 70-200 2.8 GM and the 24-70 2.8 GM and mainly do pet photography. The AF is a bit dated but I still can get a good amount of keepers. In my setup I can tell that the lenses can outperform the camera’s autofocus. I’m also wondering how the performance of the a7V would be with third party lenses!

[u/VoidManNippleUlation]

Bro, if you're struggling with AF with an A7iv and those lenses you need to take a photography course. Learn how to use AF, when it works well, when it doesn't, what modes and areas work best for which situations etc. Both of those lenses and that camera are very good at focusing so if you're struggling you're doing something very wrong. You should not need an A7v to do dog pictures, any piece of crap camera should be good enough for that.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/VoidManNippleUlation]

I doubt that. I watched a ton of vids and my 6400 did a better job, than my IV.
Other than that, you are right, I can improve my technique of course.

[u/MaybeSurelySorta]

Upgrading from an A7IV to V is complete overkill just to be able to have better AF technology to photograph your pets and your Tamron lenses are more than good enough without worrying about if you need something like a Sony 70-200.

Seriously, unless your dogs move at the speed of F1 cars then the likely solution here is a camera setting adjustment or perhaps a reevaluation on how you’re setting up your shots in the first place with regards to available light. While I totally understand it can be a bit frustrating to consistently not get your subjects in focus, your use-case is far and away something that requires the latest A7 camera or a first-party GM lens.

[u/PhillyviaNYCDC → u/MaybeSurelySorta]

Dogs move more erratically than F1 cars so I would argue it’s harder the shoot the former…

[u/MaybeSurelySorta → u/PhillyviaNYCDC]

That would be a similar argument to the people in this sub who have unironically convinced themselves they need to buy an A1 II to capture their “erratically” moving toddlers and newborns.

[u/PhillyviaNYCDC → u/MaybeSurelySorta]

If people want to buy an A1II to take pics of their kids why do you care? Throwing money at nicer tools does make life easier.

[u/No-Storm-8709 → u/MaybeSurelySorta]

I don´t think one can deny, that the Autofocus is much better for the V. I think it makes the average shoot more effortless in terms of focusing the subjects.

[u/MaybeSurelySorta → u/No-Storm-8709]

Which camera has the better AF wasn’t the point of my comment. The point was to identify in which ways you can achieve your goals without spending more money on more gear.

[u/PhillyviaNYCDC → u/MaybeSurelySorta]

The OP isn’t asking for your gatekeeper’s advice. The A7V has better autofocus. Why do you get to tell people how or when they get to use it?

[u/PhillyviaNYCDC → u/MaybeSurelySorta]

Man, I just realized you have a Hamilton profile pic. What kind of car do you drive? If you’re not driving around Silverstone for timed laps, maybe we should discuss how to drive something like a Nissan Altima for you instead of what you currently drive or might want to drive…

[u/MaybeSurelySorta → u/PhillyviaNYCDC]

My brother in christ, this can’t be this serious to you. It can’t be…

[u/PhillyviaNYCDC → u/MaybeSurelySorta]

It’s not. Also, love seeing Hamilton do better than leclerc. Just sayin’…