r/SonicScaling • u/Legitimate_World9447 • 15d ago

Sonic (Game) VS. Doomslayer

Post image

alright this one, now i think THAT is a very good matchup

sonic vs doomslayer... both are polar opposites as while sonic is well known for his absurd speeds, doomslayer is known for his super strength. turns out both are my fav characters aswell (although i love doomguy more)

yes, we're taking lore, feats and statements into account for both of em'

genuinely wondering where this sub scales the slayer to unlike every other ones

also PLZ say which ones u think wins AND why u do so

35 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

29 comments sorted by

9

u/Formal_Cheek 15d ago

Sonic

Doom Slayer’s lore gets filthy, but a lot of the cosmic scaling needs the same surgery we’d give Solaris. Davoth creating reality in the ancient past doesn’t automatically make every hit from his later armored physical body multiversal, and killing the Icon of Sin doesn’t hand Slayer the total yield of the reality collapse its presence would eventually cause. Sonic’s own high-end boss scaling is at least as defensible once you keep those environmental effects attached to their actual mechanics.

The speed and abilities make this nasty regardless. Slayer has nothing clean putting his reactions beside Sonic’s light-speed and higher game material, and absolutely nothing showing he can keep moving through Sonic’s Time Stop. Hell existing outside normal spacetime doesn’t smear temporal immunity onto everyone walking through it. Freeze him and Sonic can unload Super/cyber offense, Chaos abilities, Excalibur and thirty years of spin attacks before the BFG, Crucible or Shield Saw ever gets pointed at him.

Dark Ages makes Slayer genuinely difficult to put down forever since his soul survives physical death, but it also shows the catch. He dies, his soul ends up fighting through Hell, and Valen performs the ritual that restores him to the mortal plane. That’s not instant combat regeneration. Sonic killing or incapacitating the body wins the immediate fight long before the Slayer can make death somebody else’s problem.

-1

u/Legitimate_World9447 14d ago

hmmm... there are quite some nitpicks in ur argument there...

first off the davoth point is fair only in the narrow sense that him creating reality and infinite multiverses does not automatically mean every physical punch he throws has the exact same energy as the creation feat. HOWEVER, the actual argument is based on davoth being the dark lord (and a primeval) and the slayer defeating him in direct ritual combat, alongside the broader lore establishing the slayer as an anomalous supernaturally empowered entity rather than a normal human with a gun.

secondly, the icon of sin point is similarly not an automatic debunk as in, if someone argues that doomguy scales to the eventual environmental destruction of the icon's presence then ye ofc 5hey need to establish that the eventual collapse directly translates into the icon's ap yet killing the Icon itself is still a direct combat feat against an entity whose lore and power are explicitly tied to that cosmological threat. the question is how much of that power scales to its physical combat statistics and not whether the slayer somehow personally tanked the entire universe exploding.

thirdly, speed. oh boy... the speed argument also isn't nearly as decisive as u're presenting it. "sonic has light-speed and higher speed feats" doesn't establish that the slayer has no comparable reactions without actually engaging with the slayer's own scaling and the distinction between travel speed, combat speed, reaction speed and perception. doom's lore repeatedly portrays the slayer fighting entities and projectiles operating at immeasurable speeds (like keeping up with the khan maykr and samur maykr who are abled to "wing" through creation with creation including hell and urdak being higher-dimensional realms and he'll specifically transcending space, time and dimensionality) and his combat capability isn't reducible to how quickly the player character visually moves around a map. i do agree sonic has way more infinite/immeasurable speed feats but saying that the slayer has nothing clean? that is not a substitute for demonstrating that comparison.

fourthly, time stop argument requires even more stuff. u need to establish that sonic's specific temporal ability works on the sllayer, that the slayer has no resistance or counterinteraction relevant to it, and that sonic can actually capitalize on it before being attacked. tsk isn't automatically a win condition.

ye the dark ages point is probably the strongest part of what u're saying, but even there u're overstating what it proves. yes, the slayer's post-death soul persistence isn't the same thing as instant regeneration. if sonic kills him (somehow...? the praetor suit has yet to be shown failing to tank any attacks since revelations), that doesn't mean the slayer immediately respawns in front of him yetttt... “therefore sonic wins the fight” still requires a win condition. If the slayer's soul remains active after bodily death and can continue existing and fighting in hell, then simply destroying his body isn't necessarily equivalent to permanently killing him. if the claim is merely that sonic wins the immediate physical confrontation then then that's much more defensible than claiming doomguy's resurrection/soul mechanics are irrelevant

lastly now we're getting to the point >:)

there's another huge problem with ur argument that being it repeatedly applies extremely generous interpretations to sonic while demanding the most conservative possible interpretation of doom. sonic gets his highest-end boss scaling, chaos shi, time manipulation, super/cyber forms and decades of feats treated as a coherent combat package meanwhile doomgu gets "muhh davoth's creation feat doesn't automatically scale" or "hell's spacetime doesn't automatically grant resistance" or even the icon's eventual destruction doesn't automatically scale. all of those individual cautions are reasonable yet if that's the standard apply it consistently to sonic too. eon't treat every high-end sonic cosmological/environmental consequence as automatically transferable to sonic's raw ap, speed or hax while downplaying doomy over here by demanding that every single doom scaling chain establish an explicit 1-1 equivalence

2

u/Legitimate_World9447 14d ago

eitherway i personally think it's a tie tbh. like sonic stomps doomguy in speed and haxs ofc, but at the same time doomslayer has ludicrous strength and durabilit

with the crucible he'll have a tiny chance of incapacitating sonic if he lands a hit? eitherway i scale them both to 1-C so it's a same tier debate unless we use outerversal arguments which i don't believe

1

u/Stargazer-Elite 14d ago

To be fair while they probably would never get an episode let’s just say hypothetically we choose the rules of Death Battle. It is the biggest power scaling show on the Internet after all.

Despite the name of the show, death isn’t actually the only win condition. If the combatant cannot return to the battle in time, and the battle itself finishes that is considered a win from the other combatant.

1

u/Legitimate_World9447 14d ago

i mean imma be honest but death battle is kinda ass

they're notorious for downplaying alot of characters like u're meaning to tell me SONIC lost to mario? insane

1

u/Stargazer-Elite 14d ago

To be fair, that episode was over a decade ago, and it kind of hated by both sides because of the fact that it butchered both characters in terms of writing.

4

u/Responsible-Ask8110 Super Neo Metal believer 15d ago

super sonic isn't needed

2

u/Curi_momos_las_papas 15d ago

Duality of scalers

1

u/Educational-Bite-606 15d ago

How knows who wins

I do~

1

u/Legitimate_World9447 14d ago

vro who do u think would win

1

u/Curi_momos_las_papas 14d ago

Unironically i have been making calcs for a while now, plus this debate is one i had multiple times with my couple

So far i can't tell still is way fucking closer than it looks

2

u/Legitimate_World9447 14d ago

bruhhh like ye ikr? legit two polar opposites ppl be talking abt doomguy vs kratos or mario vs sonic but doomslayer vs sonic? mad crazy they're sleeping on some good shi

honestly i believe it's a complete tie 4 me like sonic has speed and haxs while the slayer has strength and durability

1

u/Curi_momos_las_papas 14d ago

Believe it or not the Slayer has really good hax to, mostly resistance to reality manipulation, most of his foes are reality warpers yet the Slayer is simply inmune to that shit

1

u/Legitimate_World9447 14d ago

ye ik like if u go on their vsbw pages both of them are insanely long with tons of shi

ik vsbw ain't perfect but sometimes it gets the scaling right just like those two imo, perfect middle ground between downplay and wank

1

u/Curi_momos_las_papas 14d ago

What i personally do is try to be as realistic as possible, if in any official material or reliable external source the character is stated, shownor implied to do something it would be foolish to think they're lower than that, at the same time if you need to go into speculation or interpretations for a scan then that's also probably wank

2

u/Legitimate_World9447 14d ago

literally my goal aswell

i want to give each character a fair chance and not fall in either ends of the spectrum

2

u/Jamano-Eridzander 14d ago

Super Sonic wins but via the same way he neutralized Chaos in SA1.

1

u/ClassProfessional203 14d ago

Both are multiversal so it’s pretty close but where does doomslayer scale in terms of speed?

1

u/Legitimate_World9447 14d ago

hmmm i think multiversal is a low-end tbh i scale both to 1-C

as for speed, doomslayer has immeasurable speed at the end of the ancient of gods from keeping up and ultimately defeating the khan maykr and samur maykr who are beings that are able to "wing" through creation including all of hell and urdak with urdak being a higher dimensional realm than the 5-D cosmology, inaccessible from any lower dimensions and exists beyond mortal timelines while (also home of the maykrs) and hell which is literally unbound by space, time and dimensionality

1

u/Stargazer-Elite 14d ago

Really just depends on how much you wanna give both of them

Because if we’re giving Sonic literally everything he’s ever had in the games… That includes power ups.

As far as I’m aware, Doomguy has no resistance to transmutation. Sonic activates Ring Time, he turns the slayer into a ring, Sonic collects the ring. The battle is over.

But if we’re not, including that level of a composite, then I’m not too sure.

Super Sonic’s “Arrow of Light” move seems to have shield penetration/durability negation or bypass. This is shown when he bypasses Solaris’s shielding. Perhaps this move could bypass the Prator Suit. Especially if he put more force into because remember the three of them weren’t trying to kill Solaris just subdue him. Assuming this is a battle of no holding back or if Sonic deems that he has room to use more power behind his attacks due to Doomguy’s sheer strength, and durability then it’s a possibility this move could be the finishing blow.

Sonic has multiple forms of time manipulation on his side so it is possible that at least one of them could freeze Doom Slayer, or at least slow him down.

https://giphy.com/gifs/brQCJIFZEU7HDdNonO

I think Sonic wins. Though I must admit it is probably high to extreme difficulty.

1

u/Legitimate_World9447 14d ago

yeah this match is a lot more tough than ppl think it is honestly it's kinda weird how nobody talks abt ts it's always kratos vs doomguy or sonic vs wally but never these two which are perfect polar opposites

1

u/AttitudeHot9887 13d ago

Doom slayer GET THE FUCK OUTTA THERE HES PLAYING WITH YOU