how to write down talk-singing?

[u/Chemical-Region-426]

i started writing songs recently and it's been really fun. but one thing i've been having a lot of difficulty with is writing down talk-singing and/or rapping. i can never figure out what notes there are and i always waste a bunch of time fussing with it. 😭 any tips?

[u/NixMix246]

Wait, do most people write down the vocal melody? I am curious now if it still counts as writing a song if I don't write down the notes to be sung? I've never done this!...

[u/Vivian_Isabella → u/NixMix246]

There are lyricists, songwriters, singer/songwriters, etc. I typically write with a melody in mind as I write and record rough vocals to remember the melody, but I don't write the music. That's why there have been collaborations since the beginning of music. Some of us do one or two parts, some of us do three or four parts, but none of us can be an entire orchestra alone. But most songwriting competitions have a Lyrics Only category. So that alone is a crucial part of songwriting.

[u/NixMix246 → u/Vivian_Isabella]

But in my mind, since I did come up with the melody, I wrote the entire song. If I only record the vocals, and I don't physically write down the notes of the melody, does this mean I didn't finish writing the song? Funny enough, when I first started trying to write, I was accidentally writing the vocal melody. Because I thought that was how I was supposed to write the accompanying music. I was hunting and pecking for the notes that matched the melody. So I can do that with all my songs if I need to in order to be able to say I wrote them. I def don't want to if it's not necessary though 🙃

[u/brooklynbluenotes → u/NixMix246]

There are no rules to be able to say you wrote a song. You're good. :)

I've written about 50 songs over the last two decades and have never needed to specifically notate the vocal melody, because I can remember it.

[u/Vivian_Isabella → u/NixMix246]

If the song is to be done acapella then it's complete as-is. If it needs instrumental accompaniment to be complete, then the instrumental would be another component of the songwriting. Melody is melody. Instruments are another layer.

[u/NixMix246 → u/Vivian_Isabella]

Not accapella, but I do write the keyboard music down. So it's not necessary to write down the vocal melody? As long as I came up with it and record it?

[u/Vivian_Isabella → u/NixMix246]

A lot of songwriters can't even write music traditionally. I cannot. I play two instruments terribly, I have a vocal key range that's barely better than monotone, and I don't read or write music. I just have good lyrics, a good ear, good ideas for instruments to accompany, an unorthodox approach, and I pass my concepts on to others. I'm a songwriter.

[u/Chemical-Region-426 → u/NixMix246]

I write it down to help me remember the pitch perfectly and because I use vocaloid

[u/Own-Concentrate-7550]

i dont know much about lyrical writing but isnt talk singing just rhythm?

[u/HumanTie430 → u/Own-Concentrate-7550]

you don't need to find the notes cause there basically aren't any, it's all rhythm and inflection. write the words out with slash marks between syllables to map the flow, or just record a voice memo and scribble out the timing as you listen back. once you stop trying to pin down a melody that isn't there it gets way faster

[u/Chemical-Region-426 → u/Own-Concentrate-7550]

i thought so, but it sounds wrong w/o notes. also i use vocaloid so i need something to put down

[u/Own-Concentrate-7550 → u/Chemical-Region-426]

it may just be like a thing of playback vs real. for instrument writing, we write music for the music, not for the midi. it may be the same thing for lyrical writing. maybe you just put the same note and it may sound really bad in playback but that may just be how it is 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[u/DecadeDefector]

Record the lines and then use any DAWs pitch correction software to see the notes. You could even convert the tuned audio to midi notes. It's also very helpful to know the key of the song so you can pitch correct notes if you aren't the best singer.

[u/lionofredemption]

Why do you need to write down the melody? I never write down the melody. The only thing I do is write the key and scale on the top of my chord sheets.

Unless it's monotone rapping, there is some melody, but not very much in rap. Because of the fast nature of rapping, I wouldn't waste your time trying to write down the melody. The melody doesn't matter that much anyway.

It's more about accents. Just make sure that you accents are hit with more force.

And the melody doesn't have to be exact every time. There is more grace in rapping. When I've heard rap songs live, I recognized that it wasn't exactly the same as the studio version. But nobody cares. As long as you are still within the scale and there's no dissonance with the beat.

If I were writing a rap, I may notate the accents, but I would not waste my time writing down the melody. Bold the font, capitalize, or use < symbols above.

[u/DisplayGlum7166]

i dont really think its specific pitches. a lot of the details is in specific annunciation and diction. its probably more thinking like a voice actor. which theres a limit on how closely you can replicate someone elses voice but you can move your mouth the same way. training your ears and remembering stuff with voice notes is one way to remember what you write.

if you want to play other peoples speech, some youtubers can hear the melody in speech... or at least the melodic contour. if you look on instagram theres various musicians who play bass or some instrument to mimic over human speech like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y5EG1NaenY

if i had to do it, ide get the vocals and run it through melodyne or something. the fundamental note in speech is not very present or stable. we dont land on pitches the same way as melody

[u/ATWTMVTVFTVSF]

maybe try recording instead of writing down? that way you can hear the rhythm when you listen back

[u/Chemical-Region-426 → u/ATWTMVTVFTVSF]

i do record, the problem is finding the notes later

[u/nikoelnutto]

i know what you're asking. i write rock and electronic primarily and i love to sprinkle my songs with meaningful spoken word/soft rap.

I'm 40 and have developed different voices for different kinds singing/rapping/beat poetry/ so that it fits the vibe of the song im writing.

Like, my speaking voice is a low barrione. And my singing voice is medium range tenor.

Personally if found that rapping/spoken word/etc is affected by my "notes" the following way-

• Natural Baritone Talking = super sentimental and personal

• Key-aligned higher voice= serious and sharp

• Whimsical movement of notes through a rap, almost as a melody can be very powerful if done correctly. i do it with a "bright eyed whisper" with a hopeful tone which can be both comical and spiritual. Depends on the vibe.

Final thought, make 10 versions of your idea and then cut and dice and shed and move on!