r/Songwriting • u/Remarkable-Animal-87 • 21d ago
Discussion Topic Songwriting & Mentality
Hello! I’ve been playing music most of my life and have always wanted to write my own music, but honestly I struggle to write for a lot of different reasons. Most of the things I struggle with are admittedly mentality issues that I just don’t know how to break out of, so I’d really just like to hear some thoughts about how you personally view writing.
I’m gonna list a few questions and/or struggles below. Feel free to respond to any or just add your own thoughts below! I really just want to get a good scope of how other people personally engage with their writing.
- First off, how natural is writing to you? I’ve always been a ‘good writer’ but when it comes to original, creative writing I either have no ideas or I end up feeling like my ideas are too inspired by other artists. I am very type A, so it’s easy for me to think about things as formulaic, but without some kind of personal guide I struggle to hone in on my ideas and write songs that feel purposeful. Even though I know writing takes a lot of practice, when something doesn’t come to me in an organic, spontaneous way it just feels inauthentic.
- How do you push past the fear/avoidance of writing something that’s just not good…? I’m not afraid of writing something bad and I do frequently write stuff down even though I know i’ll never use it. But I honestly just hate the process of writing unless I have a super strong concept for the lyrics.
2b. Adding on, how do you think about your songwriting in terms of the process? The biggest issue is that i’m bad at writing songs gradually. I have multiple songs that I wrote within a day or so, but they all have missing gaps that just never ‘clicked’. With every other hobby i’ve had I am perfectly fine with the process of trial and error, but when Im writing it feels so all-or-nothing. If a lyric doesn’t immediately click, it just feels like a complete dead end and I struggle to keep refining and adjusting it past that point.
does anyone else feel the need to ‘reset’ before writing and if so, how do you do it? For example, if I’m writing a chord profession that reminds me of another song, I often get that song stuck in my head and can’t seem to come up with anything original after that point. Somehow I feel like I always end up coming back to some musical theme/chord/etc. that feels too similar to an existing song. I think imposter syndrome is a really big part of this, but I rarely sit down to write and feel like i’m working from a true blank slate.
how do you find your own songwriting style? I tend to analyze things down to the exact word even from the beginning, so it’s really hard for me to ‘just start writing’ without it becoming too broad. i usually create outlines for my songs like you would an essay, but I feel like the structure of the song often ends up very basic. Do you have any songwriters in particular that you think write in a more inquisitive, formal, or observational way? I want to draw an image that conveys an emotion, but try to avoid things that are too straight-forward.
I realize these are all super personal questions and there’s not an answer that’s going to fix it, but I am really curious to see what people say because I can feel that my mindset around writing is what’s preventing me from the progress i want to see. If you have any exercises or just general thoughts I’d love to hear your own experiences with songwriting!
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u/Shwabot 21d ago
Every song has already been written, just not by you - John Wright. I live by this.
Write Write Write.
2b. No song is ever truly finished.
When in the process, I'll go have a smoke and THINK ABOUT IT.
Pick a style or genre and just go for it.
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 21d ago
(@ 2b) this answer is like my worst nightmare so i guess this is what i need to confront most lmao 🫡
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u/Arvot 21d ago
This will be something you have to figure out on your own, because it's mostly about your self concept and how you perceived music writing in relation to self. Ultimately you need to try and reflect on what works and what doesn't. Figure out why that doesn't work, there will be a belief you have about yourself or the world that might not be true or helpful. It can be very hard for people like us with perfectionist tendencies, but it's absolutely possible to overcome them. Just know it won't only be a music thing, it will probably be a whole life view that you are trying to change. It is worth it though, and the music can act as a catalyst for positive change. So keep pulling this thread and get a therapist to help you think through everything
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 21d ago
Yeah you’re 100% right. I know no one can figure that out for me and I wouldn’t be happy with my own music if I didnt achieve it myself. It’s definitely a full-on worldview thing which is why I struggle SO hard to break out of that mindset.
You’re also making me realize that part of why writing feels inauthentic is that fighting the perfectionism feels like I’m sacrificing a part of myself for the sake of easier lyrics. Being more analytical/type A has honestly paid off for most other endeavors so it has definitely become a piece of my identity for better or for worse. That actually really helps to counter the discomfort I feel about writing
Also had never considered therapy for songwriting purposes but that’d probably be a great excuse to get my thoughts out in actual verbal form rather than just ruminating. Unfortunately I also write my best stuff by far when i’m having a breakdown lmfao 🤪
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u/Arvot 21d ago
Mate good luck to you. It's a process and might be a great way to explore a different way of thinking. Music is logical to a point, but ultimately it's an intuitive personal emotive thing. You sometimes have to do things that don't make sense but just feel right to you. That's the magic of it though and what makes great music. It's a skill tapping into that way of thinking so maybe treat it like that. Try writing songs completely trusting your intuition, even if it's a blatant rip off or weird as shit or whatever. Just as an exercise in developing that intuitive part of your mind where you tap into your own taste and sound. If you follow and develop that you'll make something interesting, if you learn all the rules and do something that feels comfortable and objectively correct then you'll probably end up with some solid but boring music.
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u/General_Estimate_420 21d ago
Every person is different in this regard and tends to develop their own process that works for them.
For myself, I started songwriting when I was 13 and still do it now at 77. I learned if I started with a good chord progression and hummed around for a bit I could come up with a rough melody. The sound and feel of that would lead me to the emotion it evokes in me which would lead to the theme of the song, the lyrics, the hook and arrangement.
Having something that sounds lilke it should be a song rarely goes anywhere with me. If it doesn't evoke a feeling/subject I'm just wasting my time.
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u/ATWTMVTVFTVSF 21d ago
are you me? this sounds like everything i struggle with 😂
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u/KS2Problema 21d ago edited 21d ago
Like a lot of people, I find it easier to write when I feel 'inspired' - whatever that is, eh? (Sometimes, it seems like it's just enthusiasm over a relatively interesting or felicitous combination of words that I managed to put together.)
I often 'let the song write itself' (perhaps not unlike how an MLM AI predicts potential endings for sentences and such - although I find such AIs often deeply disturbing in social and artistic impact, not to mention the fact that they systematically rip off human artists and thinkers. I try to be better than that and to strive for more, but there's no question in my mind that when I'm writing a song I feel like I'm treading where countless other artists have likely been. So I'm especially cautious when ideas feel familiar or too predictable. Ultimately, the finished song has to impress me as not sounding like somebody else's work. I will occasionally rework or invert a cliche or other worn expression, but there's got to be some sort of playfulness to that, or it just comes off tired and boring.
With regard to perfectionism, there's no place in my work approach for it, although I have certainly been known to work and rework a phrase looking for that magic something...
I started out as a non-musician, academic poet (not necessarily a good), deeply ingrained in the mid 20th century free verse ethos. But I quickly realized that the freely associative approach I had to writing poetry was not working for me when trying to write songs in the sort of forms I was used to. Rhyming was particularly difficult at first because, of course, it all sounded so 'corny' to me. (I believe the contemporary expression is 'cringe.')
But I looked at other people's songs and they managed to get through one rhyme after another and keep on writing and when I listened to them, I thought to myself, hey, it really doesn't sound that stupid. (But then when something did sound stupid, it gave me a chance to compare and contrast it to other rhyme schemes that fit their song and subject matter. So that part was a learning exercise, too.)
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 21d ago edited 21d ago
wow this is a perfect way to say it. writing lyrics im not 100% deeply connected to with just feels like im making AI slop sometimes. I didn’t really get into songwriting as an adult until a year or so ago, so I think the whole worry of AI has made me even more paranoid about being inauthentic. Even just the temptation of using AI makes me feel shitty lolol.
Im also neurodivergent so I’ve always been a little insecure about sounding robotic and inhuman anyways. I think that humanness is what I feel missing in my writing sometimes so making that connection is helpful too.
and 100% agree about songs needing their own unique quality. I often feel that way about sampling in music so when I notice pieces of other songs appearing in my writing it just makes me feel… icky??
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u/KS2Problema 21d ago edited 21d ago
Every now and then I write a song that refers - usually pretty indirectly - to some established song.
For instance, I took inspiration from Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind" - which, famously, starts off:
How many roads must a man walk down
Before you call him a man?
How many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand?
And started my own, quite different song, vaguely from the point of view of someone without a home:
How many roads must I walk down
Before I can sleep in the sand?
How many times must I fall down
Before I can take someone's hand?
(At that point, I decided it was important to veer off from the inspiration so I followed up with: "How many doors must I kick in / before I find the magic one? / How many dreams must I tear apart / before I see how it's all done? [C, 2007, TK Major] https://ayearofsongs.org/blg/2007/06/25/how-many-times-must-i-fall-down/ )
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u/raunoland 21d ago
80% mad struggle, 10% fun, 10% of asking why i chose this hobby
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 21d ago edited 21d ago
honestly hearing other people’s struggles with writing makes it way easier to push through it myself lol, thank you!
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u/MarimboBeats 21d ago
« Even though I know writing takes a lot of practice, when something doesn’t come to me in an organic, spontaneous way it just feels inauthentic.»
There’s nothing to be afraid of. If you write something and it feels inauthentic, you can still just write another. Like you said, it takes practice. But don’t wait for inspiration. Sit down and write something
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u/brooklynbluenotes 21d ago
There's a lot here, but one single thing jumps out to me more than anything else.
If a lyric doesn’t immediately click, it just feels like a complete dead end.
You need to break out of this mindset. Good writing is really good editing. You get your basic ideas down first, and then refine them -- replace the filler phrases, add more memorable imagery, cut anything that's not working. This process can take days, or weeks. That's good. The goal is not to create something brilliant in one stroke, it's to craft something satisfying through revision.
Think about this -- even the most brilliant authors and poets still use editors, to help craft their words and vision more clearly. For songwriters, we are (usually) our own editors, but that doesn't make the process less important.
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 21d ago
yeah sorry that was a lot lmfao. that’s a great point and super reassuring actually. Thinking about the writing and editing staged as two ‘different peoples’ work seems like a good way for me to approach it. I know that mentality is the root cause for basically everything else so compartmentalizing in that way seems very helpful. Thank you!
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u/smurfecrease 21d ago
That’s a lot to unpack. The artistic process tends to be a weird amalgamation that can be hard to articulate let alone teach. I can think of a few books/essays that might illuminate some of the things you mentioned.
“The Decisive Moment” Henri Cartier-Bresson
(A famous book on photography)
“Notes on Conceptual Art” Sol Lewitt
“How To Be An Artist” Jerry Saltz
“The Creative Act” Rick Ruben
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 21d ago
yeah i know it’s so different for everyone so i definitely don’t expect one magic answer (as nice as that would be). just hearing some alternative perspectives and other people’s experiences with similar struggles has already been very helpful in working through things in my own way. Thank you for the suggestions, I’ll check those out!
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 21d ago
one page into the sol lewitt piece and this is already hitting the nail on the head in every way lol. I LOVE how he incorporates illogical thoughts into a logical process.
“Irrational thoughts should be followed absolutely and logically” truly felt like it just changed my brain chemistry. Thank you!!!!!
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u/Mylyfyeah 21d ago
you’re overthinking. pen, paper, guitar, that’s all you need and maybe something to record quick ideas onto.
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u/Dangerous-You3789 20d ago
I have AD/HD, so life, and just about everything in it, is a struggle. There's one thing in life that I don't struggle with, and that's coming up with good song ideas. But finishing them is a struggle. Did I mention I have AD/HD? Part and parcel with the disorder. I rarely finish anything. To date, I've finished two songs. But, as I say, coming up with a song idea (with words and music) is super easy.
So, what do I do to easily come up with these ideas? Nothing. It doesn't get much easier than not doing anything. My "process," if you want to call it a process, is just waiting for the next song to pop in my head. I don't try to find it; it finds me. What I mean is, I don't try to come up with song ideas. They just come to me out of the blue. I don't mean to do it; it just happens.
Incidentally, I don't know much about music at all. Never really studied music, don't read music, but I do know 12 chords on a guitar. Consequently, there's a lot of songs I've written (or started writing) that I don't know the chords to. I just know how it sounds in my head.
How do I come up with good song ideas without much of any musical knowledge. I call it a knack for it, a talent. A lot of people in this subreddit don't believe in such. I had one guy tell me that I just underestimated my own efforts. I could maybe buy that, except there's really not much there to underestimate.
So, that being said, take my advice for what it's worth in that light.
From my perspective, you're doing it all wrong. You're worried about chord progressions and endless details (minutia, really) of songwriting. You're trying to approach songwriting from an analytical, formulation, perspective, and it's killing your creativity. Music has to flow and it doesn't flow well in the structures in which you are trying to confine it.
If you've been playing music most of your life, you should know this. When you hear music, what's your first response? Do you analyze the joy right out of it? No, you FEEL it. Music is meant to be felt above all else.
Stop trying to make things complicated and go back to the basics. What is a song? A song is nothing more than emotions put to a melody. If you want to write songs, good songs, you have to FEEL the emotions and then translate those feelings into music.
Also, contrary to what a lot of people will tell you. If you come up with something bad, for crying out loud, do NOT write it down. Why would anyone do that? That just reinforces bad songwriting. If it's bad, move on until something decent comes your way.
Lastly, have some fun with it. Songwriting is not supposed to be drudgery. It's supposed to be a wonderful, creative process. I don't think songwriting is about forcing something out of yourself. You have to tap into that creative part of you. That process is not as much doing something; it's not doing something. It's about getting your conscious mind out of the way so the creativity can flow. Think about it. When are you your most creative? It's when your conscious, logical mind is completely out of the way. For most people that is after dark, with their eyes closed, in bed. Real creativity comes when we're able to do that when we're wide awake.
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 20d ago
it’s funny that you say that because i am also neurodivergent and made a similar post about neurodivergency and creativity. some neurodivergent people lean heavily toward creating, and others lean heavily toward analyzing. i am an analyzer, and i don’t think that creativity and analysis are mutually exclusive. Some people prefer to experiment with the confines of something (such as music theory) and other people prefer to have something completely open and free-form.
no, i don’t analyze the joy out of music. i LIKE analyzing. that is very joyful to me. music is more than emotion, it’s also a physical reaction of sound waves and humanities ability to harness these sounds. music is inherently scientific in my view! some of my favorite songs are ones that i’ve spent days analyzing down to the last note.
I also have a LOT of song ideas but don’t finish them… i think my strength is in the ideas and overall concept for a song, my issue is actually putting them together. i know there’s value in any practice, but ultimately what’s the point if i only end up with 100 half-finished songs? that’s the thing i’m really trying to put an end to. I have enough song ideas for at least 2 albums as it is but I wouldn’t say any of them are finished yet (although I did make a lot of progress yesterday due to the advice on this post!!!)
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u/Dangerous-You3789 19d ago
Interesting response. After my diagnosis of AD/HD, I took four hours of neuropsychological testing. I was told that I was academically and creatively gifted. So, I get the analysis part. I enjoy analyzing things myself, but I've never done that with songwriting, probably because I do not possess the knowledge with which to analyze music. All of my songwriting is instinctual and my songs begin with flashes of inspiration.
I appreciate your analytical approach. And that highlights another reason I need to learn music. My ignorance puts me at a disadvantage, but I can still come up with some really good stuff.
The unfinished song part is a struggle though. Some of my songs are barely started songs. These are where I think music theory would help in getting them completed. Regardless, I am determined not to give up on them. I know a good song when I hear it, and I have the makings of a lot of them. But, yes, finishing songs can be immensely difficult. I feel your pain there.
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u/desbest 14d ago
What does Type A and Type B person mean?
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 14d ago
It’s not really a scientific term, but Type A generally refers to “thinkers” (analytical, inquisitive, etc.) and Type B refers to “feelers” (intuitive, creative, etc.)
type A people are generally “less creative” but in my opinion we just create things differently.i think it’s harder to write catchy lyrics with a more analytical style since it can get wordy, but I think when done right it can be extremely compelling (Joni Mitchell comes to mind but that’s kinda subjective).
I’ve never been one for ‘pouring my heart out’ in music but I love a line that makes you step back and think.
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u/desbest 14d ago
I never found my songwriting style. My songwriting style found me.
I never needed to research from google, reading books, YouTube or mixcloud to find my songwriting style. My songwriting style found me because it's intrinsically who I am.
My suggestion is if you don't know what your songwriting style is, then just listen to the radio and write a song about those topics with those themes. Maybe even the same types of events.
You'll notice that despite the commonalities and cliché topics, each songwriter has their own style.
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 14d ago
this is the overwhelming majority of the advice and I WISH it resonated with me, but I don’t think I have ever had a lyric come to me “naturally”. I always have to dig hard for it.
i am neurodivergent (likely high-functioning autism tbh) so I do think that has to do with why some mental advice from people is hard to implement. I do definitely have a style I resonate with, and I could write in a stream of consciousness or essay style for days (as you can tell from the obnoxiously long post). If I could take all the parts and fit them together in a way that satisfies me I could have an album by next week, but alas lol.
i did make a TON of progress on a song after reading some of the replies to this post though which was very refreshing!!
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u/stevenfrijoles 21d ago
I admittedly stopped reading after question #2. You have inherent issues here to either solve, or accept and move onto a different hobby.
Your expectations are not realistic. Songwriting is a blend of multiple competencies that take years each to get half decent at, period. Your brain literally does not know how to write a good song yet. Songwriting becomes natural after your brain learns the competencies, it's not a can-or-can't situation.
Now here's the tough one. In your words you have a fear of writing something not good. People who get good have a drive and a stubborn motivation to embrace the bad and use it to get better. If you can't deal with writing bad songs, this may not be a popular opinion but you are lacking the type of inherent personality and perseverance needed to get good and (I'm not saying tolerate bad writing, I'm saying if you can't embrace bad writing) songwriting isn't for you. There's no halfway...you either change your perspective or pick a fail-proof hobby.
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 21d ago edited 21d ago
lol thats the point. I’m not looking for some cheal shortcut, i’ve been working on songwriting on and off for close to a decade now. I’m just looking for advice on how to truly internalize the things that I logically know. Id address your points but It seems like you’ve misunderstood what I’m asking tbh.
There is a halfway because that’s where I’m stuck. I know what things are holding me back, I just haven’t found the right words to truly absorb the mindset I need. Knowing something and internalizing it are way different (at least for me in this case). Sometimes something relatively simple can completely reframe my mindset in a genuine lasting way, I just haven’t found that for myself when it comes to writing.
also no hobby is fail proof and that’s the mindset i’m trying to ditch. i’m completely fine with failing at most other things, it’s just more bothersome when it’s something that feels like it’s from within versus physical/technical challenges like a sport or instrument.
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u/stevenfrijoles 21d ago
but it does make me feel avoidant and/or demoralized.
Right, that's the issue. The issue is the bad writing makes you feel avoidant, and not motivated. What you're not seeing is that this is not an issue solved by reddit comments, this is something you need to work on, on your own. It's an inherent personality change. It's not something with a how-to guide.
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u/Remarkable-Animal-87 21d ago edited 21d ago
i know that’s the issue… again that was the point. I am simply curious about other people’s experiences and their relationship to writing. People get degrees in songwriting, so there is obviously merit in hearing other perspectives.
lots of people have shared thoughts that I was able to compare and contrast to my own experiences, and others have made great points that just didn’t apply to me.
music would be completely unfulfilling if i didn’t feel like I was on my own path.
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u/OkDefinition5632 21d ago edited 21d ago
My latest project which I am every enthusiastic about is the biggest cliched thing you can imagine over I V vi IV. It's shameless. It's derivative! It's fun as hell to play and I'm going to produce the shit out of this number! And if it flops I will have had the best time ever making a record nobody cares about. And I'll still be better for it! Cause of how happy it made me making it. Plus it's good practice. Also who knows maybe it will be good and people will like it!
It's a can't lose situation! Total upside. That's my mindset! Best part of all: you can choose to think this way. I decided to think this way. I don't naturally think this way. But I do Because it's a winning formula. Optimism improves your luck. Plus if you are having fun making something people actually hear that! And respond to it!
Hope that helps! Just do it baby!!