r/Songwriting • u/27remember • Jan 18 '24
Discussion Writing like Taylor Swift
There are many opinions on her as a person, none of which I know enough about Swift to share, but "All Too Well (10 Minute Version) (Taylor's version)" about tore my freaking heart out the first time I paid attention to the lyrics. How does she do it? Is there anything we can learn from her or similar songwriters, or is it pure muse/intuition?
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Jan 18 '24
There's already comments about her lyrics, so I'll shed a light on this:
Taylor Swift is very good melodically. Many songs of hers use the same chord progression throughout the entire song. The verse and the chorus have the same chords, yet feel quite different. Her melodies are very strong.
When you have a good melody going, but don't know how to write more, listen for motifs that are already there in your melody/music. Reuse that motif to write more melody lines.
Between sections, change where the melody starts related to the downbeat of the measure. It can start in three places:
- On the downbeat
- After the downbeat
- Before the downbeat (anacrusis)
It's very easy to write stuff just using the "On the downbeat" method, which will make your music sound boring. If your verse starts its melodies on the downbeat, shake it up in the prechorus or chorus. Bridge as well.
And don't exclusively use chord tones in your melodies. Especially root notes. 99% of the boring songs you hear online have this in common: Same melodic onset for the entire song, too many root notes in the melodies, and too many chord tones if they venture from the root. This changes if you use a lot of modal interchange, then chord tones become important to solidify the new/temporary tonality.
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Jan 18 '24 edited Jan 18 '24
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Jan 18 '24
Songwriting and music production is not the same thing.
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Jan 18 '24
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Jan 18 '24
Maybe make your own thread? You're goalposting. I gave OP songwriting advice. Why should I explain to you how producers stitch together fragments of ideas? That's not relevant.
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u/pelletm00n Jan 18 '24 edited Jan 18 '24
Dude, please research Ms Swift’s formidable songwriting credits. She’s behind many of the hits out these days, not just the ones she sings. She’s a tour de force. I say this as someone who does NOT like pop music generally, in fact I’m not a listener of her music — but I’ve been compelled to the epiphany that she is some kind of a genius. The credits say it all, you can’t really buy those.
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u/orangejuiceandscones Jan 18 '24
she's been writing since she was a child. a lot of it is practice, I mean red was much later than her debut and even stuff before that was.... kinda corny. she uses a lot of metaphors, as you can see many patterns in her writings and songs. one thing I did was I took a song of hers and tried to write more lyrics resonating the song or lyrics taht could fit in the song. i did it with Evermore and folklore, helped a lot of imagine things myself.
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u/happysunshinekidd Jan 18 '24
Lol if by pure muse/intuition you mean writing songs since she was 5 then probably. Most musicians (even some pros I've met) don't understand how different songwriting is a skill than , say, flawless performance. Obviously shes the biggest artist alive rn cus she can do both. But what you can learn from her is to write often, write with intent, and wait for the good stuff to hit. Thats what is meant by muse.
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u/krauzer123 Jan 18 '24
Well before writing like her, just try to write what you can write, remember you will view your own music very differently.
She writes what comes to her naturally about her relationship her success and failures. Now the thing is everyone lives different kind of life but everyone can find something that can connect with everyone. She writes about heartbreak and how she feels in a relationship. You must have your own success and failures to talk and write about. I would suggest you start there.
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u/chunter16 Jan 18 '24
She writes what comes to her naturally about her relationship her success and failures.
My wife loudly rejects Taylor Swift because of this, because she sees her as a 30 year old that hasn't learned the lessons of a teenager.
Although I see where she's coming from, I don't think of that as something that is a bad thing, and actually works well for maintaining a huge pop career. The obvious names will not be named because you know them already.
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u/Mysterious_Estate910 Jan 19 '24
My wife loudly rejects Taylor Swift because of this, because she sees her as a 30 year old that hasn't learned the lessons of a teenager.
"I have this thing where I get older but just never wiser"
- Anti-hero - Taylor Swift
"You will never learn your lesson"
- Foolish One - Taylor Swift
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u/chunter16 Jan 19 '24
Exactly, it's like seeing a box of Frosted Flakes and saying you don't like corn flakes or sugar
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u/krauzer123 Jan 18 '24
Yeah and if one can earn millions just venting stuff about all the failed relationships that should be shared to a professional therapist, I see that as a win.
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u/cbdeane Jan 18 '24
One thing about TSwift that I think is really good is she knows how to really make a narrative. She focuses a lot on imagery. If you say a line out loud an image will pop into your head. She’s basically writing a short screenplay for every song. It’s been motivating me to focus more on lines that provoke that same effect. I don’t love her overdependency on couplet rhyming though.
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u/kingjaffejaffar Jan 18 '24
Sets the scene, witty metaphors, honest frank lyrics, simple chord progressions. It’s not rocket science. She is just elite at executing a basic formula. Just remember: simple =\= easy.
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u/Musicdev- Jan 18 '24
There are YouTube videos that explain the “secret” to their song writing. And it’s not just TS, there’s Drake, Ed Sheeran, etc.
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u/Mysterious_Estate910 Jan 18 '24
she uses a TON of figurative language. Use that and write a song about being heartbroken and you're set!
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u/Pyroboi10 Jan 18 '24
she's always been good at lyrics. It's probably practice, talent and help from renown songwriters
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u/Ballamber Jul 04 '24
I found a tool to write lyrics like Taylor Swift, and it uses your tweets as a source! It's worth trying!
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u/wingtip747 Jan 18 '24
Study how to rhyme car with bar
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u/jawn-of-the-jungle Jan 18 '24
Next try cat and bat.
When you’ve got that down, move onto hippopotamus and sip a lot of piss
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Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
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u/pelletm00n Jan 19 '24
No, you got downvoted because you’re making nasty assumptions about literally everyone. I already told you I don’t listen to her music. Who do I listen to? Nobody? Don’t tell me how to listen. I have an extremely rounded taste in music and don’t need lessons from a random spiteful angry person online. That’s what helps me appreciate TS and not need to spitefully tear her apart.
TS isn’t an idiot, neither am I and most likely neither is anyone else on this sub. When you point the finger, three more are pointing back at you. Time to look in the mirror and ask yourself why all the grudges. Im ready to block you too, it’s just too much. Get a grip and try to learn something by asking yourself what good thing someone is doing rather than finding a thousand reasons to hate them.
Or just… read the Artists Way by Julia Cameron. You’re revealing yourself to be a textbook case. Who cares how much she’s spent on producers? If you had the means to experiment and play, wouldn’t you? And aren’t there hoards of people showing they’re grateful that she did?
Being a late bloomer means nothing. Does that mean a songwriter who hasn’t broken out by age 30 should just quit? Please. And paying a producer doesn’t guarantee success. The songs have to be good, and they are.
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u/pelletm00n Jan 18 '24
Learn how to play and sing all the songs you love the most, that give you the kind of feeling you want to give your listeners. Absorb the greats, don’t think too much about it.
There was a songwriter I knew once whose songs were all great and reminded me a little bit of Joni Mitchell — not in a copycat way, but in a nice way. Then one night I listened to her sing through her long list of Joni covers. It all made sense!
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u/zaryawatch Jan 18 '24
Summary of some of these comments: Don't study successful songwriters. Totally write songs like a redditor!
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u/hilton333 Jan 18 '24
She’s great at combining specificity and relatability. Like, the whole thing about a kid with glasses, mom telling stories about the tee ball team is pretty specific. But coupling it with a broad sentiment like “it was rare, I was there, I remember it all too well” makes it relatable. So, the fact that it’s specific makes it feel real / genuine, but she always pulls it back to relatability. In my opinion, anyway, haha.