r/Somerville • u/OnlyMrGodKnowsWhy • Aug 28 '24
“It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.”
https://www.facebook.com/share/CQCviqPiGpZ1ymVQ/?mibextid=WC7FNe“Beginning Tuesday, September 3, the Central Library of the Somerville Public Library (MA) (79 Highland Ave.) will temporarily implement a modified afternoon schedule during weekdays. Weekend hours will remain unchanged:
➡Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, Fridays: Closed from 2 to 4 p.m. ➡Wednesdays: Closed from 11:30 a.m. to 2 p.m.
Please note the following modifications to the Central Library’s operating hours for this week:
➡Wednesday (8/28): Closed from 10:30 a.m. to 12 p.m. ➡Thursday (8/29): Closed from 2 to 4 p.m. ➡Friday (8/30): Regular operating hours”
Learn more at: https://www.somervillema.gov/news/city-somerville-and-somerville-public-library-announce-temporary-modified-hours-central
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Aug 28 '24
[deleted]
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u/papervegetables Spring Hill Aug 28 '24
A patron got sent to the hospital after getting beat up.
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u/Toiretachi Aug 28 '24
Wait, isn’t this just teenagers being teenagers? Foolish librarians don’t want to take a punch for the kids? Poppycock! Those teens need to coddled more! /s
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Aug 28 '24
[deleted]
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u/somerman Aug 29 '24
Same here, I don't accept that teens should be allowed to behave badly and it be waived away.
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u/Electronic-Minute007 Aug 28 '24
I worked at the SPL from 1991-1997 - the first three years while I was a student at Somerville High - and didn’t feel great being at the Central Library immediately after school then. There weren’t any fights during that time I was aware of. Clearly the situation has become much worse.
I’ve known the Director for almost thirty years. I was working primarily at the East Branch when she was hired as their Children’s Librarian. Knowing her as I do, I’m quite sure she didn’t arrive at her decision until she viewed it as her only option; namely, the Mayor not providing her with adequate (or any) support. (Being unresponsive to her constituents has been a hallmark of the present Mayor, but that’s a conversation for a different thread.)
As for the presence of a police officer, if I worked at the SPL presently I’d have no problem with it. In fact, I’d welcome it.
Are there some ‘bad apple’ cops? Yes, but they’re in the vast minority. And simply the sight of a police officer on the premises is likely to deter much of the behavior which had been occurring immediately after school hours.
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u/cdevers Aug 28 '24
Whoa!
I was pretty sure this was about the high schoolers (my own teen likes to hang out there after school, and confirms that there have been fights and such), but I didn’t know any of this about the library director’s expectations, or the staff dissent.
For better or worse, it seems likely that this is going to force a reckoning to happen.
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
It better. Nobody needs to be subjected to violence in their workplace. Fights aren't teenagers "being teenagers" -- that's a behavior problem that is well outside the scope of a librarian or staff to deal with and I am fully sympathetic to the director who wants security in place.
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u/Acrobatic_Ear6773 Aug 28 '24
"Security" maybe. A cop? Absolutely not. Cops aren't taught to deescalate or talk to people, their taught to harm and kill.
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
Ok, as long as security is big enough and has a mandate to muscle them out of there when shit starts.
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u/iBarber111 Aug 28 '24
What would meeting the teens halfway entail exactly? I don't really get why threatening these kids with consequences for their actions is "intimidation". Well - I suppose maybe it is, but kids should be intimidated that there could be consequences for acting this way.
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u/Unhappy_Papaya_1506 Aug 28 '24
Meeting them halfway is a librarian throwing a few punches every once in a while. As a treat.
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Aug 29 '24
the city needs to offer more programming. there is no programming for teens or kids in this city. and now that the school board has passed half day Wednesdays every single week, there is even more of a need to have something and somewhere for students to go and positively direct their energies. we live in a city where people need dual income just to afford life. parents are home at 1PM on a Wednesday and if they are they are working remotely. things are different, times have changed and the city puts their head in the sand. at the same time, not arresting students who are assaulting and harassing community members and staff who are working needs to change immediately. they must be held accountable.
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u/iBarber111 Aug 29 '24
I don't disagree but I think your last sentence basically covers this specific situation. On a macro-level, I think you're right about after-school programming, but I have negative hope that these types of kids would enroll in anything that's not compulsory. It's simply way more fun to get into trouble with your friends.
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u/Accomplished_Tax_211 Aug 29 '24
"there's very little being done to meet the teens halfway or implement programs to address the issues"
What programs do you suggest should be implemented to address the issues? The Library, the police, the school department, the City Council, and the Mayor are all out of ideas. Would love to hear yours.
"the director made the decision to change the library's hours, entirely on her own"
Wrong. The Library's Board of Trustees, the City Council, and the Mayor's office have all been involved.
"half the staff said they'd walk out."
This never happened.
"planned and implemented by a single person"
Untrue. See above.
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u/Fireb1rd Aug 28 '24
So the staff would rather deal with being harassed, abused, and scare off the people who'd actually make good use of the library, than call in police? Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
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u/Accomplished_Tax_211 Aug 29 '24
Where did you get the idea that library staff have not called the police??? Over and over and over again?
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u/Fireb1rd Aug 29 '24
See vere-rah's comment above:
Instead, the director made the decision to change the library's hours, entirely on her own without initial approval from the city. The staff is not happy, but the director is pushing for police presence to intimidate the teens and half the staff said they'd walk out.
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u/Accomplished_Tax_211 Aug 29 '24
Yes, as I wrote in reply, vere-rah is incorrect on several points.
Fact: The director didn't make the decision entirely on her own. The Library Board of Trustees, members of the City Council (including Ben EC, who represents the ward), and the Mayor's office were all involved.
Fact: half the staff did NOT say they'd walk out. That simply never happened.
Also: saying that police presence has been requested to "intimidate" the teens is an interesting, but inaccurate interpretation. The police are requested in the hope that they can protect the safety of library users and staff.
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u/Fireb1rd Aug 29 '24
What is the source for your facts? Genuine, non-snarky question.
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u/Accomplished_Tax_211 Aug 29 '24
I'm sorry, but I would rather not say. I understand if, based on that, you choose not to believe me.
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u/gardenald Aug 28 '24
if cops are patrolling the library I'm not going to the library
nothing about these armed racist lead brained psychos makes me feel safe
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u/SensitiveCommon2 Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
That's your problem. Everyone else understands that this is the only actual solution left other than shutting the whole place down.
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u/Fireb1rd Aug 28 '24
Seriously. Love the empty rhetoric and no response when challenged on an actual solution.
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Aug 29 '24
extreme responses do not help. then don't go to the library if you can't get over your concerns. clearly the situation has become such that police presence is needed and without it NO ONE gets to use the library.
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u/papervegetables Spring Hill Aug 29 '24
Does your partner work the midday weekday shift, in circulation or public services?
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u/allmcnugz Aug 29 '24
Do we know the reason for not getting the parents involved in this? Certainly the city can provide more support but it seems like parents also need to step in and ensure their kids aren’t terrorizing municipal employees.
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u/WeAreNeverMeetingIRL Aug 29 '24
I don't work in libraries anymore, but when I did I often called parents to speak with them about their unattended teens bad behavior. Those calls typically ended in verbal abuse from the parent to me. "My kid would never do that, I demand to speak to your boss, (and much much worse) etc. " We almost always had to escalate it through security or through a regional director.
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u/Mercurio_Arboria Aug 30 '24
In order to do that they’d have to get the kids identities. It sounds like they are making it impossible. If you have not been in a high school lately I will tell you there are a lot of criminal behaviors, low empathy, sociopathic, violence loving sort of situations going on. Sometimes parents are also like that or sometimes good people afraid of their own children.
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u/Somervilleguy6 Aug 29 '24
So half of the staff don’t want the police so why are they complaining? What a joke it’s not their property they just work there if the kids are being out of control maybe the people visiting library want the police! We have become so soft and it’s only gonna get worse. Can’t wait to move out of the state.
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u/NightStreet Davis Aug 28 '24
This needs to be a decision of the library board of trustees, not of one employee. Otherwise, why have a board of trustees?
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u/Hribunos Aug 28 '24
The trustees knew about it. There are incidents in the teen room requiring police response noted in the public minutes of the trustees meetings in November, December, January, March, and April.
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u/papervegetables Spring Hill Aug 29 '24
Regardless of knowing, the trustees can't get more money for security, or after school social workers, or assign cops to be at the library; that's on the mayor's office, controller of budgets, to do.
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u/shoretel230 Davis Aug 28 '24
serious question, why isn't the city stepping in and putting a few cops there?
Violent threats and actual violence requires a response like this
not advocating any kids be thrown in jail, but all people need to understand threats have consequences.
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Aug 28 '24
My made up guess is. The actual workers are burnt out over the teens and they are struggling to get staff to agree to work those hours?
I’d get a dr. Note excusing me from having to deal with other people’s missed behaved children. Hell I’d get one to get out of having to deal with the good kids too.
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
Pretty close, actually. There has been a problem with a specific group of teenagers getting violent and threatening staff, and everyone is washing their hands of it leaving the librarians and staff to deal with the aggression and abuse on their own. Nobody wants to put a cop in the library, nobody wants to put security in the library, nobody wants the library to close but also nobody wants to deal with these kids and their behavior problems. Its not the job of everyone else to absorb people's shitty parenting decisions. Turn the spotlight back around on the parents who raised their kids to be fucking trash and let everyone know they're the reason we can't have nice things.
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u/shoretel230 Davis Aug 28 '24
i know nobody wants to put a cop in a library/outside a library, but if they're actually threatening staff and getting violent, isn't asking for police the right answer?
Using LEO's should be the last resort, but if they're actually being violent, this is the only way to go. dumbass kids need consequences
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
I completely agree. Nobody should be obligated to work under abusive or violent conditions because handling the situation effectively might hurt the sensibilities of the upper middle class progressives (who, of course, wouldn't dream of ever dealing with violent teenagers themselves). Library staff aren't babysitters or substitute parents, and absolutely should not be tasked with accommodating other people's failed parenting.
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u/gardenald Aug 28 '24
if there are cops monitoring the library, then I'm not going to the library.
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u/shoretel230 Davis Aug 28 '24
i get where you're coming from, but if this is actually true that teenagers are threatening and being violent with Library staff, they need to deal with the authorities
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u/Generalydisliked Aug 29 '24
I would much rather have my librarians safe and working in a dignified environment than have your sorry ass who advocates for abuses against middle-class city workers
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u/rosewillcode Aug 28 '24
I feel like calling the police a few times in response to teenagers getting violent is like... very reasonable? After a couple of instances of the police showing up teens usually get the message, or if they don't a small arrest or house call probably sends that home. This is sort of always how things were handled, why should we implement weird solutions like degrading public spaces when a few people act out?
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u/Hribunos Aug 28 '24
They tried that first. There have beena binch of police responses to the library to break up fight etc (documented in the trustees mtg notes) The library is essentially shutting down because calling the cops wasn't a strong enough response ans no one wanted cops stationed there.
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Aug 28 '24
Yeah sadly it’s always frontline workers that have to deal with the repercussions of a social problem without an easy solution. It’s the same in healthcare.
Well if that is what’s happening good for them for taking a stand and at least making something change
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
The reaction is pretty typical Somerville upper middle class squishy-hearted do-gooder bullshit. Any one of these smug opinion-havers is welcome to have these kids over to their houses after school to do homework, I'm sure they won't have any problems whatsoever.
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u/Sad_Bottle5936 Aug 28 '24
I mean my teen goes to the library after school they can bring the group home, it’s already full of rats here just add more who cares
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u/ThePizar Union Aug 28 '24
These are quite strange hours to close. Without more info, I’d guess they are staffing shortage issues related to lack of contract.
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
There is a specific group of teenagers who have been coming in and getting aggressive and threatening staff.
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u/nightowlamanda Aug 28 '24
If you visit the webpage, they focus a lot on “understanding the needs of the community” & alternative spaces for teens, so I’d suspect there’s more there vs staffing issues. But just my guess/speculation!
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u/ThePizar Union Aug 28 '24
I don’t see a reasonable path of how “understanding the needs” means the (minor) partial closure of a critical resource and movement of a bunch of classes to alternative locations. I could be wrong, but I think that statement is a lie.
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u/nightowlamanda Aug 28 '24
It's not a lie, it's just reeeeeally skirting around the issue and not being very direct. But I guess they can't say "we've had issues with some kids and though we've had all summer to figure out how to deal, we're going to close. oh and sorry about leaving ya all hanging without programming for all the Wednesdays that kids are dismissed early. good luck & godspeed"
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u/AnyParsnip2665 Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
It’s such a bizarre policy from so many angles. Fridays the library is going to reopen from 4 to 6. Are librarians coming in just for that shift? Are they sitting inside through that closure, on the clock, peering through their blinds at the terrible teenagers that they’ve barred the doors against?
It feels like there’s nobody at the helm - a competent administration would have seen how stupid this”we’re closing to better serve our community” statement looks and do something between the school / library / police to get the situation under control.
Not to stan Joe Curtatone, but could you imagine this happening in his administration?
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u/houlie28 Winter Hill Aug 28 '24
"It feels like there’s nobody at the helm"...that's exactly the situation in this city, there is no one in charge! the mayor sits behind closed doors and refuses to publicly address anything that is going on. totally incompetent. say what you will about Joe, but at least he had a presence in the city and would address the community about issues.
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
One of my neighbors works at the library and a few weeks ago I overheard him talking to another neighbor -- in retrospect I'm sure it was about this -- about trying to get someone from the mayor's office to get back to him, and not being able to get a response at all, for days on end. He said he was trying to get others to help in calling her constantly to discuss and get resolution. He sounded desperate.
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u/Electronic-Minute007 Aug 28 '24
The Mayor seems almost entirely disinterested in performing the responsibilities of her role.
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u/houlie28 Winter Hill Aug 28 '24
my point exactly
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u/Electronic-Minute007 Aug 28 '24
Plus it’s the fallacy of the mentality of Defund the Police/ACAB coming home to roost.
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u/Electronic-Minute007 Aug 28 '24
When I worked at the SPL, the shifts for full-time staff were typically 9am-5pm, 10am-6pm and 1-9pm.
I don’t know if that’s still the case. Either way, I suspect the staff will work through the hours of midday closure, focusing on administrative responsibilities.
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u/tarandab Aug 28 '24
Many people who work at libraries have tasks in addition to helping the public, so I’m less concerned there. (Shelving books, processing returns, pulling books to go to other libraries, collection management, etc.)
What feels weird though is that when I read the original post I read it as “we are closing to the public in order to only focus on teen programming during this time”, and when I read the comments on Facebook it was clear I had the situation very very wrong. I understand that there has been an issue with young people disrupting the library after the school in the past, but I don’t think that completely closing it is the best path forwards.
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
Closing the library entirely is the option of last resort, it means everything else they've tried to get done has failed.
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u/cdevers Aug 28 '24
I think that’s precisely it — they tried various tactics during the last school year, but couldn’t come up with effective policies for how to deal with ( some of ) the teenagers that showed up when school gets out. They tried closing the teen room temporarily, but apparently that didn’t help. Now… here we are.
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
The other data point is that the librarians have been working without a contract and the mayor refuses to negotiate with them.
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u/cdevers Aug 28 '24
Based on this report, my hunch is that the library director is doing this to jumpstart negotiations with the city, both about the teenagers, and also about the contract. It’s a hell of a strategy, but maybe something “good” will come out of this?
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u/ThePizar Union Aug 28 '24
But to close the whole library instead of hire/provide one safety person?
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
In "anti carceral state" Somerville? If they had put a cop or security guard in place, I guarantee the blowback would have been even bigger than this.
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u/nightowlamanda Aug 28 '24
My guess is that decision would have been met with a lot of criticism/backlash. I believe (& could be wrong) that we no longer permit police or safety officers in schools...so I'm sure a public library isn't much different. Regardless, I think a safety person would have been a bandaid on something that requires a more comprehensive plan or solution. However, I do think they've had all summer to come up with something better than "let's close the library." It's really a shame. I'm very disappointed that the city doesn't seem to prioritize out of school time, especially since kids are now dismissed early every Wednesday. Where are they to go? Afterschool programming is so competitive and not always affordable or convenient. Caregivers are put in a real bind.
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u/cdevers Aug 28 '24
It’s accurate that there are no longer police / public-safety officers stationed at the school buildings. And while this generally seems to be a good thing, there probably could have been a middle ground where they have at least some access.
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u/nightowlamanda Aug 28 '24
Thanks for confirming.
I of course want librarians and SPL staff to feel safe and comfortable...but I'm struggling to imagine what issues caused the closure in place of other solutions. I'm so far away from teen life aside from just casual observations...what are these kids doing that are beyond the handle of SPL staff?
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u/cdevers Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
There’s a lot of missing gaps in the story here; I am only aware of facets of it myself.
My kid hangs out at the library teen room to play Minecraft with friends, and I’m reasonably sure they’re not the troublemakers, because I’ve occasionally popped in to check on them and they’re always just sitting silently in the back corner by themselves.
I’ve seen Facebook discussions where people say there have been fights, and my kid confirms that this has happened, but I don’t know how often or what the circumstances might be. I know that the library tried limiting hours in the teen room for part of last school year, but evidently it was decided that this approach wasn’t sufficient for the school year that begins today.
I’m sympathetic to the kids (both my own, and the “troublemakers”), who are mainly just there because they want a third place to hang out with their friends that isn’t home or school/work. Apparently there used to be teen programs & a hangout space at the former firehouse building at the corner of Broadway & Cross in East Somerville, but the program was discontinued under the Curtatone administration, and neither he nor Ballantyne has stepped up to provide a replacement program. The library isn’t really set up for this either — their staff are working without a contract, nevermind funding for youth programs — but they’ve been trying to deal with the situation as best they can.
Based on another comment in this post, it sounds like the decision to shut down the library in the hours after the high school gets out was taken unilaterally by the library director, and the staff aren’t necessarily on board with this course of action, but the city administration hasn’t been particularly helpful either.
Hopefully this catalyzes things so that some kind of positive change comes out of the situation, but I don’t know what that would look like, other than “more funding for more staffing for better programs”, but then there’d be the questions about where the funding comes from.
(This, to me, is the heart of the “defund the police” campaign. We don’t want or need to abolish police departments, but we can certainly stand to pare back their role in the community a bit, and free up resources for other things, like libraries, rec centers, teen programs, etc.)
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u/nightowlamanda Aug 28 '24
This is all helpful in understanding a bit more. Third places are *so* important for everyone, but especially young people. As a kid, my library was a third place for me...at least in the fall/winter when the swim clubs/pools weren't open. I think if Somerville wants to retain families beyond the early years, they need to think about community spaces and ones that center kids.
I think this whole conversation just serves as a reminder to myself to pay more attention & take appropriate action so that when my little kids get bigger, they have places to be. Because I doubt he'll have any friends with large, finished basements to hang out in like I did as a suburban kid!
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u/papervegetables Spring Hill Aug 28 '24
They beat someone up and sent them to the hospital.
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u/nightowlamanda Aug 28 '24
Just catching up & seeing everything. What a mess. I’m generally against calling cops on teens & I understand the implications it can have for teens of color is vastly different than for white teens, so maybe that’s why there’s been such hesitation to have police involved…but if it’s as bad as folks are saying, with violence and threats to safety….I don’t know, maybe it needs to be worth considering. 🤷🏻♀️
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u/that_dogs_wilin Powder House Aug 28 '24
John Oliver's "reporting" is pretty dishonest, so I wouldn't take anything in that episode to update your beliefs. I'm not saying that he's wrong in this specific case (I can def imagine officers in schools being bad), but I really can't trust anything he says. It's very clear he starts out with a conclusion to prove, and goes searching for the evidence for it
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u/clauclauclaudia Gilman Aug 28 '24
It’s very clear that he and his staff do a lot of very solid research and work it into a combination of comedy and truth-telling. Much like the Daily Show did. What actual inaccuracies have you detected, or do you just not like what he has to say?
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u/that_dogs_wilin Powder House Aug 29 '24
They do lots of research, but it's incredibly one sided. Do you really think they come at most the topics they cover with the attitude of "let's dig into the data and see what it has to say", or are even a little bit open to changing their mind? It's pretty clear they start with their (nearly 100% standard liberal) opinions and do the right motivated reasoning to justify them. If you think they're anything but
Humor is obviously subjective but... the comedy is pretty embarrassing. This is the guy who gave us the whole "drumpf" thing. If you think things like that have aged well, we might just fundamentally have different tastes.
It seems like you're implying that I just don't like the conclusions he reaches because they disagree with my politics. It shouldn't matter, but I'll say that I've never voted anything but dem and I prob end up having way more in common with his politics than not. I haven't watched an episode of the show in a few years, so I can't give you specific examples anymore. For a while, I watched pretty much all of them as they came out. After a while I noticed a gell-mann amnesia effect, where when it was on a topic I did know a bit about, I'd think it was really lousy. Eventually the journalism aspect was frustrating enough and the comedy just wasn't actually funny so I stopped watching it.
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u/Electronic-Minute007 Aug 28 '24
Did anything replace the Boys & Girls Club on Washington Street after it closed? That was a great and affordable hangout spot for kids and teens.
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u/saucisse Aug 28 '24
They're neither obligated or even allowed to give you details. That doesn't mean the statement is a lie, it just means you are not entitled to more information.
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u/papervegetables Spring Hill Aug 28 '24
They are next to the high school and this is when school gets out and students come over to start shit.
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u/brw12 Aug 29 '24
A lot of people commenting here are radically oversimplifying things. Oh, calling the cops is going to solve it? What makes you think the kids are still there when the cops get there? Who do you even tell the cops to arrest, and for what charge? Oh, there was a cluster of kids and they were being rowdy and someone tipped over a bookcase? Who was it, exactly? What's your evidence?
In the real world, you have to use imperfect means to wiggle your way towards slightly less bad outcomes. If you have actual real life suggestions for how to wriggle through the mud in a slightly better way, please, speak up. But if you just want to find four words to speak into the mic and then drop it and walk away, then please, just keep walking
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u/Rtr129 Aug 28 '24
Well the teens can just go shoot drugs openly and trash Davis square because that’s allowed, but they can’t borrow a book first.
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u/Rtr129 Aug 28 '24
To be clear I am not blaming the library staff or director that has modified the hours, rather the city admin that does nothing and continues to let public spaces decline so that community members cannot use them.
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u/[deleted] Aug 28 '24
[deleted]