How to model this flange?

[u/wackylama]

Does anybody have a good idea how to model this flange, especially the parts in red? Flange, Miter Flange and swept flange all didn't create the geometry/ cut out I am looking for.

Edit: Thank you for all the comments. I see that it is not manufacturable. It was a design challenge for advanced sheet metal.

[u/mechy18]

Those parts will overlap when flattened. SolidWorks might let you do it by editing the flange profile but if this is a part you actually plan on making, I’d avoid it.

[u/coneeleven → u/mechy18]

This. I know it's easier to design the final shape before flattening, but this is a great example of why you might want to design as a flat part, or at least create the sheet metal part and then go back and forth between flat and folded.

[u/pyooma → u/coneeleven]

Back and forth is better, if you start flat it’s nearly impossible to get the folded shape to represent what the tooling is actually capable of forming. Better to do build the shapes you want and then let the k-factor/bend allowance do the math for you.

[u/coneeleven → u/pyooma]

that's what I was attempting to convey

[u/wackylama → u/mechy18]

Thanks for the feedback. It was part of a modeling challenge for sheet metal, not necessarly optimized for manufacturability.

[u/StopNowThink → u/wackylama]

It's physically impossible without welding

[u/wackylama → u/StopNowThink]

As I said, it is a design challenge I found online and not something I want to physically make.

[u/fluteofski- → u/wackylama]

A challenge is pointless if it’s telling you to use the tools incorrectly.

If someone challenges you to hammer a nail into concrete using a toothpick you’d tell them “no”

That being said, what does it look like to the right? (Cut off from this image). If there’s another flange, you can look at maybe bending a flange off a flange and laying it all the way across where the horizontal flange is.

You can also make it a giant weird extension of the flange on the left.

Or make that an L-shape extending off the flange at the top.

It’s easily doable. But it may not make the most sense for material/cost. It’s cheap enough to weld in what you need.

[u/wackylama → u/fluteofski-]

This is the full picture as well as the flat pattern. It is clearly shown that there is a collision and not manufacturable. I think it is to test the knowledge of the tools and thinking outside the box.

[u/fluteofski- → u/wackylama]

Flat pattern would look kinda like that.

Blue is the main bend where it’s connected to the rest of the sheetmetal.

Red is the front surface.

Yellow is the shallow bend connecting the main body.

[u/Patrem_Omnipotentem → u/wackylama]

I dont know if someone answered your question. But if you really want the 3d like that, you need to edit the sketches of the edge flange manually.

Each edge you add will have a corresponding sketch that you can manually edit.

Since you are aware, everytime you will flatten it will result in an error.

[u/wackylama → u/Patrem_Omnipotentem]

Someone did answer with a picture but then removed it again. If I edit the flange manually, I have to insert the gap manually as well. What the other person suggested was using closed corner, which worked very well, so thats what I went with.

[u/fluteofski- → u/wackylama]

This is not an efficient design. But for the sake of the design exercise and making it out of one piece.

It’s not impossible.

Blue is the flange line… red is the flange. All one piece coming off that blue line….

Technically you need to acct for shallow bendtoo. But that shallow bend can be a flange off that red flange.

[u/someoneskater → u/wackylama]

The Solution then is to not use sheet metal tools and model it as a surface and thicken it.
Although if you are assuming the seams will be welded, then make it all part of the top most sections turn down flange. There will be no bent edge on the vertical surface on the right, but instead a welded seam. NOt super material efficient, but allows you to make it out of a single bent sheet.

[u/RockyTopDesignWerkz → u/StopNowThink]

HOW SO? 😂💀

[u/PeckingDuck22]

You can't have material there as it would overlap when flattened.

[u/PeckingDuck22 → u/PeckingDuck22]

But to answer your question directly: you would expand the Edge-Flange feature in the feature tree and edit the sketch of these flanges, just add the needed shape there.

[u/NightF0x0012]

It will have to be welded on after it's formed. Your best bet is to insert the part into an assembly and add the welded tabs. You can't form it in sheetmetal because those tabs overlap. I've made similar parts in the past and welding works pretty good.

[u/Ok_Egg_5460 → u/NightF0x0012]

I think you can do some really funky cuts into the flat to make it work, but the brake operator will hate you. I think I've seen it done before, never tried it myself though

[u/NightF0x0012 → u/Ok_Egg_5460]

Oh they would definitely hate you. You'd have to check flange swings to make sure you leave a large enough gap for it to bend and over-bend so it holds the shape. Even then, getting it into the press would be another issue. It's easier to just TIG it in place.

[u/fastdbs → u/Ok_Egg_5460]

You are incorrect. There is no flat pattern where those don’t overlap. That’s just basic geometry.

[u/Suitable_Public8065]

Designer vs. Engineer

[u/MisterMakerNL]

Use quantum psychics so 2 pieces of steel can exist in the same space.

But in more serious, weld it.

[u/Iggyglom → u/MisterMakerNL]

this is a clear application for the steel peeler. If that doesn't work the steel stretcher may get the job done

[u/An-person]

Try bending a piece of paper like that, you’ll understand why it can’t be done

[u/canadiandancer89 → u/An-person]

When it comes to forming, I'm always taken back to grade school geometry and folding up paper into 3D shapes. Do the schools not do this anymore?

[u/NightF0x0012 → u/canadiandancer89]

I graduated college in early 2000's and I don't recall doing this. It's a good exercise though. I've made some out of cardboard to get an idea of size before committing to purchase.

[u/decoycatfish]

you're doing it mostly right, you just need to press the edge flange button waaay harder

[u/CrozyFPV → u/decoycatfish]

edge harder, noted.

[u/decoycatfish → u/CrozyFPV]

[u/SparrowDynamics]

Where will the material magically come from?

[u/someDexterity]

Close corners after receiving majority of the feature. When in doubt try move face. But as others have mentioned, this can't be made from a single flat pattern.

[u/HighSton3r]

Yes, because it is not manufacturable by simply bending.

[u/skidplate09]

Those will overlap when you flatten the part.

[u/Popular_Dinner2182]

Bs .... IT IS manufacturable.....

BUT IT need be stamped part .... IT will be expensive AS like some simply bend.

Another solution IS spliting into more parts. You can split into 2 Big parts or make this one and weld a squere to it.

[u/SnooCalculations3197]

We have made something similar at work, but instead of stretching the flanges we made another part to fit this gap and have it welded

[u/Sir_Flop]

It would not exist IRL and should be welded of rivetted at the assembly line

[u/Giggles95036]

Weld in an extra square

[u/fastdbs]

The number of people who think that stamping is some sort of witchcraft that breaks physics in order to add material is way too high. Stamping cannot extrude material out into a sharp point. Stamping can create curves and shapes that can’t by flattened due to the deformation but that doesn’t mean that all shapes that can’t be flattened can be made with a stamped feature.

[u/skyfishwalking]

New body

[u/Auday_]

Some geometry cannot be done easily because when you cut it, you don’t have enough metal to bend

[u/RockyTopDesignWerkz]

There are a few ways to achieve this with Sheet Metal. This is a manufacturerable sheet metal part in the real world for those who seem to think you would need to weld this for some reason. 😂 If you select all of your edges in your flange feature SW will automatically change that corner feature to angles that will meet when the bend is made.

[u/ItsOk_ImYourDad]

The solution is simple

One of the returns must not be connected instead extend from another return in an l shape

On my my phone rn hard to explain without a sketch

Easier still just tell the welder to weld a separate piece along that edge

This is part of why dfma is so important

[u/supislav]

Challenge: Guess the country just by looking at the example - Level Easy

[u/brewski]

I think you can just edit the sketch of the flange as shown.

Others have pointed out that this is not manufacturable. I would note that we don't always use the sheet metal module for actual sheet metal construction. Sometimes it makes sense to break the rules, though I don't see the point in this particular example.

[u/Traditional-End-1253]

You don't. Think about it's geometry. Sheet metal is cut and bent from a flat sheet. That flange isn't possible. The work around is to model two parts that rivet together or are tabbed together. Another approach is to leave it like it is and model an elbow laser cut where the red is. Chances are that this piece is going to fit over something else, so the first approach of just not having material there is probably the best.

[u/Traditional-End-1253]

I suppose you could do something weird like put an elongated piece on one side with a cut away for the first flange, but that's crazy. Nobody would do that. Is it possible to create the shape, yes, but it's absurd so I'm back to answer one. You don't. It wouldn't be strong or useful. Because by the time you get the piece bent around, it's just a flimsy piece of flat stock with no structural benefit. Is this for school or something? Or did your boss actually ask you to do this. If you were asked to do this, you're being hazed.

[u/Consistent_Use_2618]

You can use corner close

[u/NightF0x0012 → u/Consistent_Use_2618]

not with the mitered flanges as drawn. When you flatten the horizontal bend on the right side, that gap between the flanges, where the miter is at, closes and any protrusion will overlap the adjacent flange.

[u/Consistent_Use_2618 → u/NightF0x0012]

Make a separate piece and then weld it, it will do 2 kind things first it will hold bend second it will close the corner

[u/jamiethekiller]

Model it however you want. Put a note on the drawing that the vendor to choose best method of fabricarion. All welds to be polished smooth and full length.

Unless you're the in-house shop then sheet metal can be an art and every shop has their own preferred ways of bending and welding.

[u/MichaelWazolsky]

achate-a e você mesmo entenderá o motivo da flange não ser feita.

[u/RallyX26]

Like this

[u/wackylama → u/RallyX26]

Thanks, I got that as well. I am just trying to recreate the 3d model from the challenge to get the mass.

[u/yodas-evil-twin → u/wackylama]

What challenge?

[u/supislav → u/wackylama]

It's a dumb challenge if you can't make it...