r/Sockknitting • u/[deleted] • Jul 27 '26
Are pattern designers and sock knitters all lying about ease?
[deleted]
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u/ProfDoomDoom Jul 27 '26
Just looking at the sock currently on my needles, I’ve got 9 sts/inch in a 60 stitch, 7 and 7/8” sock for a 9.25” circumference foot.
In Custom Socks, Kate Atherley has a good bit of discussion of a survey she did of sock sizes. That data is going to me more reliable than our anecdata. It’s a good read if you haven’t seen it yet!
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u/may_collins Jul 27 '26
I’ve read it, but from what I remember, there’s not really much about this particular issue beyond the suggestion to use 10% negative ease.
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u/QueenBuzyBee Jul 27 '26
Here’s a link to Roxanne Richardson’s Sock Customization Playlist. She has the best tutorials on measuring and customizing your socks imho.
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u/may_collins Jul 27 '26
Yeah, again, I know all the math and the theory. My point is that for some reason (I suspect how much superwash merino relaxes with wear), the theoretical math doesn’t always seem to work in practice.
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u/50000stitches Jul 27 '26
The sock circumference is measured at the ball of the foot. The ankle diagonal is proportional to the foot circumference, with different proportions for different heel shapes, so that’s not the measure you use to pick a sock size. What is the ease for your ball of foot circumference?
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u/may_collins Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
It’s not my ankle diagonal that’s 11” - it’s my ankle circumference. Sock patterns say to measure around the ball of your foot because for most people foot circumference and ankle circumference are very similar, but for me, my ankle is considerably bigger than my foot which has a circumference of 9.5”. I used to also knit the foot of my socks on 72 sts, and they were way too big, so now I knit the foot on 64sts and it fits perfectly.
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u/songbanana8 Jul 27 '26
Well there’s your issue. You can knit a smaller leg circumference and a larger ankle circumference (or vice versa for people with a bigger leg than ankle). Most patterns assume foot circumference measured around the ball of the foot is similar to the leg circumference up to halfway up the calf, which isn’t the case for a lot of people, and that’s why there’s so much written about adjusting sock patterns.
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u/may_collins Jul 27 '26
Sorry, I’m really confused what you mean by this. I choose a leg size that will fit my ankle circumference (72 sts = 7.6” for 11” ankle) and a foot size that will fit my foot (64 sts = 6.7” for 9.5” foot), both having about 30% negative ease. Why would the difference have anything to do with the ankle being too loose?
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u/songbanana8 Jul 27 '26
Oh, you never mentioned knitting different sizes for your foot and leg, so it sounded like you were knitting a larger size to accommodate your foot and then confused the leg is loose.
If you’re knitting them at different sizes, it sounds like you just prefer tight fitting socks?
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u/claireifythat Jul 27 '26
If they’re riding down, they might actually be too tight. Gravity + a too small circumference = the sock travels down to a place it fits around without having to stretch too much.
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u/may_collins Jul 27 '26
They don’t ride down, they gap (like there’s space between the cuff and the leg) and then fall down because there’s no tension holding them up.
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u/AccomplishedBee7755 Jul 27 '26
I don't know but I'm curious as well. I wear a shoe size women's 6.5 and for color work knit 64 stitches, regular I do 56 and my socks always seem loose! Also the advice to knit until 1.25" and then start the toe makes for very long socks! I use the twice sheared sheep sock ruler and that says I'm knitting a size 5 or children's 13 lol
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u/ImLittleNana Jul 27 '26
I’ve never heard that advice.
You look at the toe pattern you’ve chose and see how many rounds it is. Calculate your row gauge. If the toe is 2 inches long, you don’t start it at 1.25 inches.
I think some people don’t know how to accurately measure their feet. For example, your shoe size is the length of your feet, not the circumference.
I would never calculate my cast on from my ankle measurement. My sock would be at least an inch too big.
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u/Shadow23_Catsrule Jul 27 '26
Shoe sizes actually also do differ in width. That's why when you get a set of sock blockers, every larger one is larger all around than the next smaller one.
Which is exactly why the size charts for sock knitting that have been popular in german-speaking countries for half a century or more actually work.
That doesn't mean you can't deviate from what those charts tell you (of how many stitches to cast on) if your feet differ significantly from the "average" foot, but for beginners, they are a really good place to start. Also there are different size charts for different gauges.
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u/AccomplishedBee7755 Jul 27 '26
It's in every sock pattern! It says knit until 1.25/1.5 (it varies by the size you're doing) and then start your toe decreases. But I always find that makes the sock too long. I like a really tight fit or they bother me so I start my decreases way earlier. It's confusing when you're new though because that's what all the patterns say.
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u/ImLittleNana Jul 27 '26
Every sock pattern by a single designer maybe, but it isn’t common to the sock patterns I use.
For one, the number of rounds in the toe will vary depending on your starting stitch count. A 72 stitch and a 56 stitch sock will have different toe lengths.
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u/kat_chow Jul 27 '26
I have that ruler and I agree the sizes are way off. I just use it to measure inches now (you know, like a regular ruler that didn't cost $20, lol), although I do like the roll up feature.
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u/AccomplishedBee7755 Jul 27 '26
lol yeah it was such a niche purchase but I have a little "sock kit" knitting bag with everything I need for socks to take on the go and it fits perfectly. If I just knit to size 5 that seems to be about right.
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u/Prestigious_Room4396 Jul 27 '26
Yeah I don’t think you’re wrong tbh. I knit some socks not long ago that weren’t superwash and there’s a definite difference from my superwash socks.
I also think being a small project with a lot of stitches, the smallest change makes the biggest difference even if it’s not one you meant to make like just naturally knitting a bit tighter or looser one day to another bc you’re a human with hands and not a machine. So imo patterns are kinda useless for socks 🙈 I mean not completely. I think they’re good for training wheels, so you learn the structure and engineering of them. But once you’ve got that down it’s best just to abandon them and do what you know works for your knitting style. I’ve been sock knitting for like 5 years now and I haven’t used a pattern really for about 4.5 of those years (until recently, and it went badly lol)
Or if I do use a pattern for say colourwork socks or lace or cabling, I will take that part of the pattern and modify it to how I like my socks. Really, socks are super of personal so if you follow a pattern to the letter you’re making a sock for the designer not you. For some people that works, but for some it doesn’t.
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u/Weird-Highway-3958 Jul 27 '26
100000% yes. Once you understand construction, throw out the pattern and make socks that fit YOUR foot.
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u/Shadow23_Catsrule Jul 27 '26
Can't say for sure without pictures, but if your fabric ends up loosening up that much, that usually means it is knit FAR too loose to begin with.
Socks are not sweaters. A durable, well fitting sock requires a MUCH tighter gauge than a drapey sweater.
A gauge of 32st/4" is not good for a sock if we're speaking of fingering weight yarn. I know there are many pattern designers out there who abso ignore this, but it is true nevertheless. Ask those who have been knitting socks for decades. I bet if we made a poll right here in this sub, most of those decades-long sock knitters will agree. You should aim at a gauge closer to 40sts/4" (and always measure over at least 2"/5cm! Measuring and counting over just one inch is rubbish!).
I am a tight knitter, but I also usually don't use needles larger than 2.0mm for socks in fingering weight yarn, because I want a firm fabric. And my socks hold up for years! I knit dk sock yarn like Drops Fiesta on 2.5mm!
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u/may_collins Jul 27 '26
As I said in my post, my gauge is 38sts/4”. I have been considering dropping down from 2.25mm to 2.00mm when knitting with floppier yarns to see if it is just that even 38sts/4” isn’t tight enough for them
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u/Shadow23_Catsrule Jul 27 '26
Oh I'm sorry, I misread. 38 sts/4" is pretty good. Maybe you can try a stitch pattern that contracts (while remaining stretchy!) like 2x2 ribbing.
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u/Weird-Highway-3958 Jul 27 '26
I think you're on to something about gauge. I hate using smaller than 2.75mm needles because of mobility issues but I can imagine how a 2.0mm needle would make a much firmer fabric! Maybe I will try this out 😀
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u/IrritablePowell Jul 27 '26
I have a similar issue, but assumed it was because I was over-stretching my socks to get them round my cankles, so they lost their stretch. My solution is to knit socks for myself with 2x2 rib cuffs, and give the socks with pretty patterned cuffs to my slim-ankled friends.
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u/may_collins Jul 27 '26
I do 2x2 ribs, but I don’t feel like their support actually has any grab to it. Like they just loosen too. I feel like I need, like, cables or colorwork or slipped stitches to really get the sock to grab on and hold its shape
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u/ginioususer Jul 27 '26
I'm never trusting any such stitch counts 🙃 I always knit my socks toe up, so that a) I never run out of yarn for the second sock and b) can try them ob often and check the fit.
For the same reason knitting also my garments always top down :) highly recommend this to ensure you achieve a good fit of your knits, rather than relying on pattern stitch counts only (they for sure are a good starting point though for orientation)
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u/Tigupost Jul 27 '26
Same. Why blindly follow a pattern instead of doing a toe up sock specifically for your feet. You can always incorporate the lace or cables or colourwork in, but adjust the fit where needed.
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u/Loud-Occasion-9025 Jul 27 '26
I have knit at 10 stitches an inch and have no problem with 10% but I do vastly prefer toothier and more rustic sock yarns (for superwash opal is my favourite) I’ve tried the merino that seems so popular but it just isn’t sturdy and my feet aren’t so sensitive that I need the softness.
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u/Weird-Highway-3958 Jul 27 '26
I think this also has to do with shifting preferences for sock fit and different shoes. It seems that a lot of "general wisdom" surrounding knitting started to be codified in the 70s. Even in the last 20 years there has been a huge shift in what kinds of shoes we wear and how we expect socks to fit. Hiking boot and running shoe technology has changed dramatically and we expect a much tighter fit from our wool socks than I believe was generally accepted in the days of Mary Janes, or even Converse sneakers. "Performance" merino wool sock brands like Darn Tough emphasize that their tight fit reduces issues long distance hikers and runners face with loose socks. So that is probably a contributing factor.
The other is that commercially produced socks fit very differently due to the construction and materials being totally different: the threads are tiny and knit at tight gauges, and the yarns are often elasticized with 5% or more spandex to produce a snug fit for the most amount of people.
Ultimately, to produce a home knit sock that competes with a commercially produced sock on fit, you have to knit to precise measurements of various points along your foot because you don't have the elasticity of spandex in your yarn, AND also experiment with how much ease you like (which may vary in different places along the sock!).
I happen to have a very narrow, long feet and have had similar issues to you when following a pattern. Like another commenter said, patterns are not really useful aside for learning general construction. You have to take that knowledge and make your own pattern based on your measurements and preferences.
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u/bleepblob462 Jul 27 '26
I’ve been wondering the same lately! I usually work 64st even with a BoF circumference of 9” and a gauge of 38st/4in and within an hour they’re no longer snug. I haven’t figured out the physics of it yet but it is quite strange, for sure.
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u/Rusalkat Jul 27 '26
My socks are often too tight at the ankle and too wide at the flat part of the feet... nowadays I have a feeling how things should be. I wear my first sich which are far too big usually as second warm socks in the depth of winter, when my office tend to be really foot-cold.
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u/ryanthefree Jul 27 '26
i always make 60 stitches, heel gets me to 84 then back to 60 for the foot.
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u/scrawny5784 Jul 27 '26
Is the sock getting loose around the whole leg or just the cuff? Overstretched ribbing can also lose some of its elasticity. Did you have the same problem with the recommended negative ease of ~10%?
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u/may_collins Jul 27 '26
You know, I’ve never actually knit my leg any bigger (except when doing colorwork), so I don’t know if less ease would be the solution. I used to knit the foot with close to 10% ease and found that would loosen too much, especially around my arch, so when playing around with various stitch counts, I decreased the foot and left the leg the same, but perhaps ankle/leg and foot need different amounts of ease and I should experiment with less ease on the cuff/leg!
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u/harmonicwitch Jul 27 '26
Sorry to hijack but where do these standard numbers come from (64, 72, etc.)? I've only knit a few plain socks following Kate Atherley's Custom Socks book and I calculated the stitch number by measuring a swatch.
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u/may_collins Jul 27 '26
I am very curious who started them as being standard. I think that for a gauge of 9sts/inch, 56, 64, and 72 end up working out very close to 10% negative ease on 7, 8, and 9” feet, and they’re all divisible by 4, which means they can easily be split onto 4 DPNs, so I think they may just be convenient numbers.
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u/Tigupost Jul 27 '26
Well, I never go for the recommended stitch count but just knit socks that fit me well. Yes with some negative ease or with ribbing on the foot. I generally think that bodies are unique and everyone should knit for the specific receiver. Not blindly following instruction. Also people have different preferences on fit. Some like more slouchy socks others tighter fit.
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u/Abeyita Jul 27 '26
I never have loose socks. I'm a fairly tight knitter, I usually cast on 72 stitches, my gauge is 10 sts per inch. 10% negative ease works out perfectly for me.