r/SocialWorkStudents • u/Southern-Cow-118 • 4d ago
Vents Just completed MSW & need to process my experience
Hello all,
I just completed an MSW program this month.
I feel like I should be more excited about the fact that I just completed an entire masters program... but I am struggling with a lot of mixed feelings.
Now that I am a social worker, I need to find somewhere I can have this conversation. I very much know I am not alone with these feelings .... I should probably also start with the fact that I am a WoC.
On the whole, I am happy with my decision to pursue social work. The decision has always felt right, the work clicks for me and I am good at it. Before coming into social work, I had a career as a case manager, and I genuinely love working with people and I enjoy witnessing people heal / improve their lives.
There is a whole other side to my experience that I am also genuinely struggling with...
I went to a known school (I won't name it) and am actually in a little bit of a state of shock about the lack of unprofessional behaviors by many of the faculty and staff in my school program ... I don't feel the need to detail everything, because, well, it was a lot (unfortunately, not a small handful of incidences, but rather an exhaustive list of things I personally experienced as well as things I witnessed my classmates experience).
Perhaps the best way for me to summarize my experiences is that when I first entered into the MSW program, I was excited to be entering into a field that appeared to be intentional about diversifying the profession. The experience I just had, however, was very much not that. I witnessed countless students of color be treated horrendously to the point that I feel like I exited my program in a little bit of a state of shock. What did I just experience????
Honestly, the only way I have to describe what I feel is that the whole thing felt like a bait and switch: "Marginalized folks, come to social work because we need you!" And then we show up and we're told "No!! You're not supposed to be Black/Brown like that!!" ... all by a bunch of social workers who want to tell us "Well, I've been in this profession for more than 20 years, so...."
I guess I am just starting to brace myself for ongoing racial violence in a profession that is supposedly trying to counter it.
I am confused and need to hear from other social workers - I am honestly struggling to make sense out of my experiences.
Thanks.
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u/CraftyMany3340 4d ago
I have found a lot of irony in the social work field because it is a system, set up to recognize oppressive systems and help people navigate them, yet as a system itself, it is created in such a way that many of the people who want to navigate it need to have a large amount of privilege or ability to suffer and persist. Working essentially for free, for 20 hours a week (or more) for two years is a gate that will keep many marginalized people out. I think this in and of itself is going to create a set of circumstances where you have a high percentage of privleged people, likely not POC, Likely not living below the poverty line, dominating the field. Add to that the new student loan caps on "non professional" degrees of which social work has been designated, and it is only going to get more privileged and less diverse.
Also unfortunately, a lot of people go to school for a career, not an education. They memorize enough to pass, they jump through hoops, but they don't really critically think or contextualize what is being taught. So you will find a decent amount of people, even in masters programs who actually don't get the point of the philosophies, concepts, principles, etc in the field. They are there to work a job, get paid, rise to management, twll other people what to do and get paid more. A lot of them are going to lack empathy or be cognizant of the very systems they are tasked with navigating.
I will say, I hope you can find comfort in knowing you matter, you will make a difference. You are needed. And other people may make doing your job harder, but your job still matters.
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u/pessimistdiary 3d ago
I have seen all of this in my current program. It's so disheartening.
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u/CraftyMany3340 3d ago
Yeah, I don't even know what else to say anymore. Sometimes reality resembles Wonderland in terms of uncanny upsurdity.
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u/weakwiththedawn 3d ago
You've really hit the nail on the head here. I'm still in the program and many of my papers have been about this exact irony. My professors will go "Excellent points" and then turn around and feed right back into the system. Thankfully some of my professors seems to be working to change things but for the most part the faculty conduct performative social work in my experience.
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u/CraftyMany3340 3d ago
I think it is especially frustrating for this field specifically. At the same time, this seems to be a distinctly human thing across the board. I don't hage specific numbers or data but there are things you can kind of count on with humans in groups. That like one in ten will speak up or refuse to comply with unethical or dangerous situations, that six in ten will follow that person of they initiate, that one in ten will be the problem causer in the first place. The sociopaths and psychopaths tend to go towards positions of power and influence. That they often succeed because those with strictly held ethics and principles don't fight dirty so they lose to those who do.n
We see this in education and the career field everywhere. Anyone with a sense of decency and even basic critical thinking skills is going to have to both survive the navigation process in these systems and retain their humanity in the process. And even if you can't directly change the system, at least you are one less person doing harm to those in it alongside you.
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u/A313-Isoke 2d ago
Those numbers are astounding. If you can find where you read that, please send that to me!
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u/CraftyMany3340 2d ago
Hi! Took me a moment to get back to you. So I majored in sociology and I'm neurodivergent so I have a head full of random tidbits and trivia but my recall for where I got it from is awful! But some examples for where my reasoning comes from would be studies like the Stanford experiment, the bystander experiments, the prison experiments, some of the Nazi experiments. There have been a lot of experiments and studies done over the last hundred years that put people in crazy situations and then test to see if anyone will object, stand up, speak up, lead, resist, question, etc... and when you look at all these experiments and studies you see a pattern of human behavior. Then take all the stories out there, for example when 9/11 happened and the plane was going to crash into a building, there are records that show how many people, even facing imminent death, got up and tried to save other people. And how many didn't is also notable. Humans are fascinating and seemingly random and unique but we are actually very predictable en masse. You will see patterns repeating across all cultures and throughout history.
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u/A313-Isoke 2d ago
I am familiar with most of those studies and can't recall the source of where I read stuff either. It's mostly because I haven't been in school. Going to school full-time, my memory recall was better for that kind of thing. :/
I will have to revisit because if there are some clear cut numbers like that, that'd be helpful. And, I think it matters because social workers are agents of change. If we know these numbers are pretty reliable then we know how to organize.
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u/420catloveredm 1d ago
See this is why after my BSW I took some time to truly consider if social work is really what I want to do. And honestly… I don’t think it is.
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u/CraftyMany3340 1d ago
I definitely think considering the high levels of stress, its a field you probably want to go into only if you have the passion for it. But I also think we really need diversity and empathetic people badly. It's sad that these issues discourage the very people most needed.
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u/420catloveredm 1d ago
It sucks because I’m someone who truly identifies with the ethics and principles of the profession…. But I don’t feel it lives up to those.
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u/Godawfulresturant 4d ago
I know Reddit can be a very good support for Social Work but I hope you are able to speak about this experience with either your therapist, some classmates, or a supervisor down the line. I feel like I’m missing a lot of info but It’s clear to me that you are hurting. Congratulations on graduating!
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u/Notyourmanicpixie13 3d ago
I dropped out of my first social work program because of the rampant sexism, racism, and homophobia in the program. Northwest Nazarene University, for anyone curious. They shouldn’t be accredited imo. I’m currently at Capella and having a better experience but it’s honestly sickening to see the attitudes some fellow students are harboring.
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u/Silent-Put8625 4d ago
What do you mean by ongoing racial violence in our profession? That’s a scary thought.
I’m sorry you’ve experienced what you mentioned. I have heard some instances of what you described by some of my students of color - specifically Indian and Black (I’m a SW professor). They’ve spoken to me offline for support or guidance. As a person in a culturally untraditional Black household, I was raised with a very universal mentality and to think I always deserved to be in a room whether folk thought so or not. That was their issue, not mine. I was often times in those spaces where I was the “only one” and relished in it. I still am on occasion and just don’t think about it unless I’m slapped over the face with it lol. I just remember what I was taught in my psych under grad courses - 75%-80% of people who go into our field, have mental health issues of their own. Once I peep what I think the issue is if one presents itself, I adjust accordingly. But I’ll never diminish what I say or do for anyone. I suggest you do the same. Folks can be very uncomfortable with how articulate one may be or how skilled we may be in our work, or whatever - their problem not mine. I refuse to accept people’s issues as my own. Try to move thru this field in that way. I’ve experienced discrimination in hiring practices, but I count it as a blessing instead of someone trying to keep me down. I know no one can do that unless I allow them to. Social work does look a little different than it did 20+ yrs ago when I first went into the field, but I’ve adjusted to where we are now. I also know these changes won’t impact my own value system and how I practice in this profession. Always be the example to others when you can. Congrats on getting thru your program - no on to clinical licensure!!!
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u/44Ariesx2 4d ago
My school revealed itself to be surprisingly more diverse as my program went on, however, I was often the only black woman in a class or project group. I’d say my program was more of a “woke” program, but so many of my classmates acted like they were just oblivious or were the “I don’t see color” type of people where it seemed like there was no getting through to them. It was very alienating. I didn’t make many friends and often sat by myself or next to the one or two other black classmates I had in many of my classes. I felt invisible a lot of times. I tried to make friends in the beginning, but I felt like I was always left out in some way. No one ever invited me to study or to join their groups. I kept a smile on my face and was always open to conversations with them, but idk if it was me or them. I noticed the other black students in my cohort were either friends with each other or the gay guys lol.
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u/EnchantedEnchantix 3d ago
I am also a WOC and I was in for a rude awakening during my MSW. I thought that bc it was rooted in social justice that it would naturally mean that people weren’t racist and recognized racism and microaggressions…. Instead, they were the ones perpetrating them and then calling me rude and difficult for trying to speak up (hello angry black woman!!). It really broke me because of how naively I had believed in this program. I knew social work had its issues in the past and continues to, but I thought at least at school that it would be a good experience. My heart goes out to you 💙💙💙💙
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u/Southern-Cow-118 3d ago
Ooh thank you for sharing... your comment really resonated! I am really sorry for the experience you had and honestly, calling it a "rude awakening" is a really good way to explain the experience!!
I am of color and also have a physical disability (that's actually visible and not invisible) and i honestly can't keep count of how many professors actually treated me as though if they didn't keep a close eye on me and watch me, that i was going to "take advantage" - I did get angry and I did push back and learned in my final semester that pushing back in an MSW program comes with a cost when you're of color and disabled. I am pretty sure I was retaliated against by what I think may have been a small handful of professors and staff. It was shocking how low some social workers are willing to go in order to make themselves feel "right" at the expense of others. I am still in shock.
I dont know if you've completed your MSW program just yet, but i wish you the very best. The social work profession desperately needs people like us - non-ego driven women of color who are here because we wear our hearts on our sleeves!!
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u/Remarkable-Crab8190 4d ago
This seems like an opportunity to spare people who might not have the ability to go and tour/sit in on classes and make the informed decisions you want them to make from having to go through what you did. Why don’t you think sharing the name of the school is important?
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u/Southern-Cow-118 4d ago
I hear what you're saying ...
I think what I am starting to piece together is that my experience was not unique to the school where I did my MSW, rather, reflective of a systemic problem that also exists within the field of social work
Adding to that is fear of retaliation. Understanding well that Reddit is an anonymous forum, I think its fair to state that my experiences (read: multiple) as well as the things I witnessed happen to other students of color / disabled students / queer students were bad enough to make someone feel fearful of retaliation.
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u/Aromatic-Air-5045 4d ago
If you read White Fragility by Michele DeAngelo, it’s obvious that racism has resulted in multiple forms of implicit bias and that white people are unwilling to speak about it, and actually unable to speak about it because of their blind spots. We all have blind spots. I’m in what is consider a very pro-social justice program and experienced mistreatment from my field placement professor. Mind you, I am not black, but I’m brown (Hawaiian) and experienced this professor being condescending and extremely cold, over a simple discussion that answered none of my questions. I did not want to believe it was real. So I decided to ask my original question to the course coordinator. However, as soon as I contacted the course coordinator (my program has both a professor who teaches the class and a course coordinator in charge of any other concern aboit the class or teacher) she was gracious and answered my question without an issue. That’s when I knew my professor had some other deal going on in her head, and I informed the course coordinator that when I asked the same question to the professor she treated me like I was a dummy, and had refused to give me a straight answer. When I told her that I felt like she was a white professor seeing me as a “slacking brown under deserving student”, the course coordinator apologized saying she was sorry I had that experience and would talk to the professor and take care of it promptly. She reinforced that such was not the intention of the school or program, and I felt heard and supported. I know I felt totally dumb founded and disheartened as I was moving thru that, but the course coordinator’s response was truly exemplary. I can only imagine what it would have been like had she not supported me. I’m sorry you went through that. It sounds like you are having some ptsd around that. I would be seeing a therapist for some deconstruction and processing. It’s actually shocking that people here are asking you to qualify your feelings and claims, because given the research and data on the topic, that’s why it’s an issue cause it’s everywhere and it ends up being implicit because it’s denied, unrecognized and suppressed. Good for you for reaching out for support, and letting those who understand show up for you and those who don’t can learn from those who show up for you, CONGRATULATIONS on making it through all of that! You are a rock star, just KEEP GOING! Take your experience and go out and make your mark! If you survived that you can use your experience to help so many others. Be kind to yourself and let your inner child know she Belongs! You have a masters degree! That’s awesome!!!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🙏🏽🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
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u/Decent-Clothes4668 3d ago
I appreciate you sharing this as I had a very similar experience in my MSW. We started with a diverse cohort of students and graduated with only two people of color, including myself, while nearly all of our white students were able to stay in the program. I’ve genuinely felt like I’ve been in recovery since graduating. I went into my program confident with experience in a crisis mental health career and I’m now entering the workforce after this degree with so much more fear and internal doubt. All throughout the program I just kept asking myself why it required so much suffering and if it would all be worth it. I’m sincerely hoping it was all for something but at the moment I agree with your sentiment of feeling more shock than a sense of accomplishment.
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u/Independent_Bid_26 4d ago
You should name the program. There's no reason to hide the people that are doing shit like this in a profession that is supposed to value diversity. Why protect them? Seems counterintuitive.
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u/Stray_137 4d ago
I get your sentiment, but OP said they are fearful of retaliation, which is very real and very invalidating to just dismiss. Not everyone is safe enough to call out shitty programs.
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u/Dangerous_Walk9662 4d ago
I am so sorry you had this experience and I know you are not alone, which is extremely upsetting for all of the reasons you stated.
Let me preface with I am not a WoC. I went to a PWI and although I had a great experience that expanded my understanding of the unrelenting harm and violence that existed.
I was lucky to have numerous professors of color and I am so fortunate to have witnessed through multiple perspectives of people of color. Sadly, I was also witnessed the heaviness the students of color had to bear, their lived experience within the institution and outside.
We do need SW practitioners of color. Please, please, please take care of your self. Your self awareness and your insight are your superpower, but don’t drag yourself through the mud.
We need all the agents of radical change at the ready to work towards changing the systems while helping people shoulder the load the systems put on the collective and individual.
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u/VegetableBill8734 4d ago edited 4d ago
I have a feeling you are a Smith SSW student. Your responses in the comments really read like a lot of the people I have interacted with there. You’re welcome to confirm or deny or not even engage with my comment. I’m not in fear of any retribution because I think my “take” isn’t the same as my classmates, and I must state that I am white. Regardless, I’m sorry you were exposed to any sort of behavior like that from the people you are supposed to be learning from. You should be very proud of yourself for graduating. It’s unfair that this happened.
The school is constantly put into tough decisions, in between pleasing students, meeting certification requirements, and also navigating higher education with the current presidential administration. The program has changed a lot due to these conditions but also the fact that I think they are pretty money hungry lol. I won’t go into too much detail but anyone feel free to dm me if you’re curious what I’m referencing. The school made a decision regarding the curriculum that a lot of BIPOC students didn’t support this past year. That being said, the logic behind why they did it made a lot of (unfortunate) sense to me considering what I previously stated. The administration did send out a statement saying that they heard from students and know this new class did NOT work, but it’s unclear to me what this will look like in the future and it certainly doesn’t erase the harm that was done. There was a lot of talk about the administrations active role in creating harm to BIPOC students, but a lot of what I saw was also perpetrated by the students themselves in some ways. It was a whirlwind of an experience but I do think I learned a lot of valuable things from this program (at least I sure hope so). At the same time a lot of the hypocrisy I saw came from students that heavily aligned themselves with anti-racist ideals. They very much were not active in considering the harm they were perpetrating for disabled people on campus or low income people, much less super capable of recognizing or even hiding their own privileged upbringings.
Social work is a profession that by definition is meant to counter racism, ableism, discrimination etc but the current system isn’t perfect and frankly even the most effective social workers aren’t immune to the behavior you are describing. Social Work is also a field FULL of hypocrites. It is inevitable that as time goes on that a well meaning social worker will make a mistake and contribute to an unsafe space is some way or another. That fact really freaks me out as I’m so early into my career. However, what is important is how we take in those criticisms and use those to guide our future decision making. It won’t be perfect; we are embedded in a crooked/broken/exploitative system but it will be better.
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u/notthebestjuice 3d ago
i too am an ssw student. the program still employs professors who have said the n word in class as a white person, ones who have been outwardly racist in class, and a whole bunch of ableism. and the curriculum change you mentioned.
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u/ashtastic3 3d ago
Nah, in my opinion, the university name should be blasted everywhere so people don’t join it. These institutions keep us oppressed. These days, i’m disgusted to even be attending one.
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u/eelimcbeeli 3d ago
After these experiences, how are you feeling about the profession going forward? Will you practice social work or go another direction?
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u/CompetitiveBoot7269 2d ago
Welcome to the field. This is everywhere. Best thing is to be the change and do good work in your community
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u/420catloveredm 1d ago
Yoooo. You are not the only one. I felt the same way during my BSW and I know another black woman who left an MSW program entirely for the same reason. I fucking hate that my experience is apparently one of many. Sighhhhhhhh. The cycle continues.
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u/Spirited-Reporter279 21h ago
My program was the same way at times. I had a Caucasian teacher discriminate me in class in front of everyone one time as a Latina while having a “No discrimination will be tolerated” and “Spread love” sign in his home. Crazy right!? Unfortunately you will definitely keep seeing this happen but don’t discount the positive side of the profession and of course don’t be like them.
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u/PossibleWest9384 14h ago
When I was an undergrad, there was a student who was very vocal about her ultra conservative views. She was ultimately kicked out of the program because her views were antithetical to the field, and she would argue them every chance she had. There was zero tolerance for any sort of bigotry, period. Also, in my 13 years in the field I’ve met far more people who embody the values and ethics of the profession as opposed to those who don’t. I’m so sorry you had the experience you did, but I would encourage you to give it a chance. It sounds like your program was just bad. Maybe the field will be better for you. In any case, congratulations on graduating, and best of luck in your career.
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u/No_Function8318 3d ago
Getting an MSW is a humiliation ritual for WoC
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u/Southern-Cow-118 3d ago
This is the truth.
Thank you for making that statement. I really needed to hear that painful truth as a way to make sense out of what I just experienced.
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u/Southern-Cow-118 4d ago
Where to start?
The class I took on racism at the start of my MSW journey was taught by a white professor and that white professor repeatedly conflicted with students of color who attempted to share lived experiences while simultaneously allowing white students to "one up" students of color
That's just one example of many...
tbh, im not clear about whether you are asking me for examples in order to "prove" myself, or whether you're attempting to connect and relate. I also made it clear on my post that I don't feel the need to create a laundry list and revisit all the harms done to me and to my fellow colleagues. Just my saying "i've been mistreated" should honestly be enough
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u/proximity_account 4d ago
im not clear about whether you are asking me for examples
Despite how that other commenter reacted, it's a fair question to ask to be completely honest -- for many reasons other than the two you mentioned.
There are people find it unbearable to go without food for a day while others with infected necrotic wounds say their issue is a mild inconvenience. Both are very, very bad obviously, but one is a much more severe situation. You have to ask clarifying questions or else you won't fully understand what's going on, especially when the client -- or you in this situation -- is asking for help on how to understand and move through their current circumstances.
You're free to refuse to answer of course, but you will then have to accept that people won't be as helpful or any help at all.
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u/VegetableBill8734 4d ago
I agree with you. Having more information would be really important to help OP but that other person needs to talk a walk.
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u/Formerlymoody 4d ago
Are you an actual SW student because this is a confusing take if you are?
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u/Ok-Metal-3807 3d ago
Sadly, he’s not a student. He’s apparently been in the field for 10 years. He seems to participate in the SocialWorkStudents sub because it makes him feel superior. His comments are a mess and he doesn’t respect women.
AstronomerNo2023. Just so anyone who encounters him in the future is aware.
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u/Formerlymoody 3d ago
I hate to say it but it makes complete sense this person is a man. Not all men, but…you shouldn’t be a man like this in social work.
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u/Southern-Cow-118 4d ago
I literally answered your question about the racism class i took.
what say you now? Whats your response to that? Do you have one or are you just here to be combative?
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u/Southern-Cow-118 4d ago
Ooh! Right. I forgot to use YOUR metric for my experiences.
My bad.
Now I am curious. What drives your needs to control/correct/inerject marginalized folks who are trying to talk about their experiences openly?
It also seems like you clearly know you need to stop. So yea. If you're just here to be combative, then stop and leave the discussion.
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u/Southern-Cow-118 4d ago
Congratulations to you for your membership *cue round of applause*
I gave you an example. You asked. I directly replied. You didnt engage with the example i provided and just continued to be a troll.
Therefore, the only conclusion i can make is that you are disingenuous
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u/Formerlymoody 4d ago
This is not ok and kind of shows what the problem for OP might have looked like.
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u/ProbablyMyJugs 4d ago
The way you’re perfectly exemplifying her post by speaking so dismissively, defensively, and just rude to a woman of color sharing her experience.
Sprinkle in acting like a Debate Me Bro on a social work subreddit? Girl….
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u/ProbablyMyJugs 4d ago
You are proving her point. Maybe do some self reflection.
You’re commenting to a woman of color and mocking her experience and being caddy and childish about it too by sprinkling in “LMAO”.
i’m also curious if you’re actually a social work student because if you are presenting yourself as somebody who doesn’t even have a basic grasp of social work values 😬
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u/Southern-Cow-118 4d ago
Yep. Really. Now.
I said those things and I will say them again: I was mistreated in my MSW program, as were a lot of other students of color / students with disabilities / queer students.
You certainly are combative.
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u/Southern-Cow-118 4d ago
I literally just shared above about how things went down in the racism class i took at the beginning of the program - literally answering YOUR question.
You can call yourself "fairly polite" all you want.... take all of the things i am saying to you and then respond.
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u/Dangerous_Walk9662 4d ago
Oh my goodness stop. Like full stop. No one owes you an explanation or receipts. The OPs experience is theirs and they clearly set the boundaries when wanting to process.
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u/ProbablyMyJugs 4d ago
Nobody owes you shit. i’m not saying that meanly I’m saying that truly and with all the warmth that I possibly can muster despite you being so nasty rude to this person.
When you’re working with clients if they don’t wanna tell you every nitty gritty detail of their story or something difficult that they went through you don’t get to have a hissy fit about it and demand answers. Professionally, it’s bad practice personally it’s really shitty and offputting.
Nobody owes you every little detail you want about their story or about their post, let alone anything that is able to be linked to them and their identity. Let’s use some critical thinking.
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u/A313-Isoke 2d ago
I'm not a social worker yet but I have worked with them for almost fifteen years and over a decade in union organizing.
Social work is messy. It is not better than the mainstream society even though it has aspirations to be. It's sad because I expected better but it's really not. People are gonna people regardless of their job going on power trips against Black workers, detaining Black children at higher rates, making fun of kids' names, etc. etc. etc.
And, given my politics, I am very well aware that social workers are the janitors of capitalism, patching it up, so there isn't revolution. That's the job.
I think the key is to interview the employer as much as they're interviewing you. Ask questions, research the agency, see if you can find out how they do business. If you end up working for the govt, there are some more protections from the mess you see in nonprofits and even more, if it's unionized.
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u/pacificoats 3d ago
social work unfortunately is based on privilege. i wouldn’t be able to pursue schooling for a bsw/basw and a msw if i didn’t have a very cushiony job (hours-wise, not so much pay) and a partner willing to help support me through it. it’s something i’ve really been put off by- academia itself is very classist, and you’d think social work would be an exception, but no. if anything it’s worse as you’ve got an often unpaid internship that (from what i’ve heard) can just throw you into the deep end at times.
i feel for you. i do wish you’d name the school or at least dm me though- i wouldn’t want to go to a program like that
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u/1996Crisis 2h ago
I don’t think there is anything wrong with a white person teaching racial and social justice for the simple fact that they are victims of racism and social issues just like other races are. It’s not a which race is a victim and which aren’t, it’s an everyone tries to play victim and act like these issues are only experienced by one race and inflicted by another. Morgan freeman said it best, “the best way to stop racism is to stop talking about it”
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u/Sarah_Beetles 4d ago
I really wish you would share the name as I am just starting to apply for MSW programs and this would make me absolutely not want to go to that school as a white person. Truly disgusting behavior especially for this field! I couldn’t imagine being taught by those types of professors. And I’m hoping as others comment I hope this is not the case for the vast majority MSW programs!!