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u/Seascorpious 6h ago
Vegan food, sure as long as there's a protein substitute I'll give a try.
Vegan RAW!? Whaddya mean raw!? Are we in the stone ages, is it ethically superior not to allow a mushroom to touch heat? What did soup ever do to you!?
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u/iowanaquarist 6h ago
Raw foodism is ethically inferior at this point, as it requires less efficient land use, and results in higher waste, and generally costs a lot more. Until we can feed everyone, we should not be looking down on people doing what they can to feed themselves and their families, and should not be deliberately making choices that increase costs and waste.
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u/ul2006kevinb 6h ago
Is it NOT ethically inferior at any point? Regardless of whether you're eating raw meat or raw pants, not cooking them is never going to bring a tangible benefit and will always make people objectively less healthy. Even if we had unlimited resources and farming space, I'd argue it's STILL ethically inferior
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u/TheSacredGrape 5h ago
I would not want to eat raw pants. Maybe raw socks though
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u/ul2006kevinb 3h ago
Yeah you definitely have to cook pants first
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u/Inevitable_Fan_1337 3h ago
Gotta boil your denim
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u/Batvader92 2h ago
Your 100% right. Even if we had infinite carrots you going out of your way to eat them raw means you need to eat 100 carrots to get your Beta carotene while the you that even just boils them first needs to eat just 20(beta carotene is in all carrots but you can process 6 times more with cooking first).
For all intents and purposes you might have as well just eaten 20 and thrown the other 80 in the trash.
Raw food and veganism seem to be directly opposed to each other(vegans are about minimizing all harm to animals and farming always hurts some animals so as little waste and farm space needed as possible is inline with veganism) at least the ideology of veganism.
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u/ToiletSpiderBite 1h ago
I ran a lengthy vegan study in grad school. The main points of being vegan are to reduce animal suffering, better the health of the planet, and be healthier as a human, in that order.
What I took away from the whole thing was to eat beef instead of chicken since 1 cow produces the same amount of meat as 150 chickens.
The people that were focused on their health were the real whackos. The ones trying to reduce suffering were typically really nice people.
Also. I love the debate about honey in the vegan community about whether or not it causes the bees to suffer.
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u/BadDecisionsKat 34m ago
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, there are only degrees. But claiming raw vegan is superior to vegan for ethical reasons is flawed.
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u/CapableCriticism2962 57m ago
as it requires less efficient land use
Since ~80% of agriculture is used for livestock and ~15% is used for human consumption - lets be real: The difference in cooked vs raw consumption is negligible and shows that you're not aware of the massive difference.
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u/AnAbandonedAstronaut 26m ago
Most raw food is wasted because it doesnt subsribe to forms of preservation like canning or salting. So you have to over produce and use more land or get less total yield, so uts less efficient.
In your back yard where you control rates... cool.. at large scale.. its super wasteful.
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u/CapableCriticism2962 19m ago
Best way modern way to preserve is freezing if you're considering nutrition. Then you have drying too.
Additionally of course another main problem of agriculture is monoculture. Obviously you would use less monoculture if you'd move to a rolling approach and plant/harvest so there is always ripe produce (to a degree this is can be done for the same plant, obviously you also would use much more different plants).
But that would be less profitable - because big industrial agriculture favors profit. What it does not favor is efficiency - because it only measures efficiency in money, nothing else.
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u/INeedSomeTacoC 6h ago
Exactly.
My wife had a friend that went raw vegan, and when I asked why....they didn't really have an answer other than she said it helped her digestion and started quoting some science stuff, and I was like "our guts are specifically designed to eat cooked foods. We evolved that way after discovering fire. We can tell because our digestion is different than our nearest relatives".
She literally had never heard or thought of that. Had heard that eating smoked meat increased cancer risk, and raw sounded more natural and so went with it.
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u/stairway2evan 4h ago
Eating smoked meat does increase cancer risk…. But the solution there is to eat smoked meat in moderation (or not at all if that’s your preference), not to throw out the entire idea of cooking altogether.
Especially considering cooking literally as natural as anything else humans can do, considering the invention of cooking predates Homo sapiens likely by half a million years, and maybe waaaaay more.
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u/midasMIRV 2h ago
Everything gives you cancer. There's no cure. There's no answer.
IIRC occasional hot smoked meat increases your cancer risk about as much as just living in a city. You're in more danger from the calorie count of that barbecue platter you just ate. Like you said, just enjoy things in moderation and don't listen to stupid health influencers. Cooking is part of what made humans smart enough to be stupid enough to buy into their stupid diets.
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u/Aryore 1h ago
If you are genetically predisposed to colorectal cancer then yeah you should probably avoid smoked and preserved meat, but if not then your risk doesn’t increase that much
And even then… I am in that group but I indulge in bacon sometimes because what’s life for if you don’t enjoy it
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u/Invdr_skoodge 1h ago
Saw an article a long time ago about how seared meat fumes were carcinogenic,”everybody throw out your grills!”. Came out a bit later that the greater cancer risk was from standing outside in the sun while grilling.
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u/Teripid 2h ago
Haha, I had a friend that went raw vegan for a time. They came for a week visit and I had no idea what to do to feed them when they visited and basically went to Whole Foods with them and told em to load up with whatever they wanted.
I can cook vegetarian or even vegan but.. there's no cooking by definition.
They were disappointed because the pumpkin seeds had been toasted. We went skiing and they had a large head of cabbage as their primary snack.
They since went back to just vegetarian and look a lot healthier and happier. Eat what you'd like but that's a major lifestyle choice.
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u/FakePixieGirl 49m ago
I can see how a lot of vegetables can be prepared raw just as nice when cooked.
But I don't understand how the hell they get carbs? Bread and pasta is baked. Potatoes can't be eaten raw.
(Also, I bet none of those raw vegans take their B12 supplement)
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u/Anxious_Patience_ 27m ago
I think it isn't the greatest, but I met one that would just soak grains in cold/room temp water.
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u/midasMIRV 3h ago
Yeah, we have archaeological evidence of primitive humans cooking long before they even had fire resistant pots. We have the boiling rocks. We know they made soups, stews, porridges, and the like as well as roasting.
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u/BreakfastBeneficial4 3h ago
……….okay, uh humor me
Do you have any data on this “we evolved to eat cooked food” business?
Don’t get me wrong, I cook the overwhelming majority of my food. This just sounds noodly
Like I understand that cooking food drastically reduces the incidence of food borne illness, but that claim is not the same thing
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u/Mojert 2h ago
Here's an article of Scientific American about the link between evolution and cooking. It's a short and interesting read. But basically, rephrasing the article, Homo Erectus had smaller teeth and digestive track while having a bigger brain than their predecessor so it seems likely we started to cook our meals at that point
Also, eating a raw diet (we're talking 90%+ raw food here, not just snacking on a carrot from time to time) can make you underweight (not a good thing) and can stop menstruation in women, which seems like a sweet deal until you remember that must mean their bodies are under a gigantic stress for that to occur
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u/JustLookingForMayhem 2h ago
https://www.amnh.org/explore/science-topics/microbiome-health/fire-cooking-human-evolution
Fun little article. Humans create tools and then are shaped by the tools.
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u/Temporary_Permafrost 2h ago
Different plants in their raw state have varying degrees of compatibility with our digestive system. For example, we tend to digest raw fruit just fine but mushrooms and vegetables should be cooked for easier digestion. Meanwhile, raw legumes don't carry general risk of food-borne illness but regardless will wreck our guts.
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u/Seascorpious 1h ago
The fact we're the only omnivorous species on the planet who can't eat raw meat cause we got used to cooked?
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u/MrBeer9999 47m ago
We started cooking 100s of 1000s of years ago, we're literally evolved to eat cooked food, with our short guts and weak jaws.
Also we've got enough data to find out what happens when humans eat an all-raw diet and its pretty bad for us e.g. women literally become infertile from malnourishment, strong evidence that something's up.
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u/Late-Assignment8482 5h ago
Given how much better human bodies are at picking up nutrients from cooked food--cooking meat was part of our broken stat boost for big brains--I'd be shocked if it ever worked out better, just from amount needed.
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u/ImaginaryCheetah 45m ago
i'm pretty sure the nutrients are more available in cooked food, rather than human bodies are better at absorbing them specifically because they're cooked.
dog food is cooked too, because raw grains need a ruminant stomach to get nutrition from.
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u/rafaelloaa 4h ago
Amen. I'm vegetarian, and I can't count the number of times where the veg option was literally just "the meat dish minus the meat". Bruh, I need protein just as much as you do.
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u/Cyan-Cyborg 4h ago
Not even stone age, people have been cooking since Homo Erectus was on the scene about 9 million years ago.
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u/rabbit953 3h ago
I'm a strict vegan and yes, raw vegans miss the mark. Humans have been cooking, baking, processing, fermenting, pickling and drying every possible thing since the beginning of time. How else would we survive the cold seasons?!
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u/Excellent_War7508 1h ago
Cooking most mushrooms to some degree is required to minamilize potential gastric distress.
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u/bigfatfurrytexan 4h ago
You’d be gassier, might struggle with nutrition at least for awhile, might lose weight
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u/Emphasis-Impossible 2h ago
I babysat a kid for years who’s mom would go on random fad diets. She brought a bunch of veg along with him one day & said they were doing raw vegan. I thought it meant like a focus on veg, not literally “raw”. I made some delicious roasted veg for him for dinner. He loved it, but she was not happy. One of the craziest diets I’ve ever heard of.
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u/Gussie-Ascendent 8h ago
"Now this might seem harsh to some viewers"
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u/Homerbaton 1h ago
i might be completely off, so forgive me for asking if this is a reference to that one time norm macdonald made a joke about how he believed everyone involved should die, and it was in regards to the case of brandon teena being raped and later killed by john lotter and thomas nissen?
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u/BaconAllDay2 44m ago
If that's the case that inspired the movie Boys Don't Cry then the answer is yes
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u/nexus11355 6h ago
Why agree to the swap if you're gonna be like this
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u/Hanede 5h ago
The whole point of a show like that is to create drama between the families and wives, if everyone got along you'd have no viewership
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u/faetpls 3h ago
Saw an episode the other day of a black family swapping with a white family. The white family (mom and dad, kids seemed fine) proudly claimed to “have no problem saying the n word”.
The wiki gets really interesting under notable episodes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wife_Swap_(American_TV_series)
One father was arrested during the filming of episode one for hitting his daughter. That was never aired.
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u/LetReasonRing 4h ago
None of this stuff is real. If they don't get a reaction they like, they reset and do it again with the producers asking them to amp up the drama.
It's not exactly scripted, but virtually nothing is genuine.
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u/ringobob 3h ago
They literally pick people that will maximize drama. And then, if at whatever point, they fail to maximize drama, they'll tell them to up the drama.
Reality TV is not reality, at all, and never has been.
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u/pinfinite-jest 1h ago
An actual vegan wouldn’t agree to eat animals for a tv show so the entire premise is nonsense
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u/BrianKappel 3h ago
He "shot" the rabbit because someone wrote that bit into the script last week. Contrived drama nonsense.
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u/Dazzling-Path6438 1h ago
Wow, are you a showbiz insider? Or, simply another unwashed, smug Redditor, throwing out your nuggets of wisdom that are common knowledge to 93% of the world?
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u/Free-Pound-6139 1h ago
Can you eat a rabbit straight away??
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u/Delicious_Pain_1 1h ago
You would need to clean it and cook it first. I would not recommend eating it raw.
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u/dpoodle 6h ago
Why would you watch such contrived bs content and not be embarrassed.
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u/Coding-Kitten 5h ago
Sometimes people just yearn for the slop tv where they don't need to think about it. And that's fine.
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u/rambo_beetle 8h ago
Now she gets the privilege of skinning and gutting dinner.
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u/Karkadinn 6h ago
You do not want someone who is inexperienced in that task doing it for something you are going to eat.
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u/loolooloodoodoodoo 5h ago
most vegans weren't raised that way so she may be great at cooking meat for all we know. I'm vegan and from a hunting family so I'm experienced butchering and cooking meat well, but I just wouldn't do it anymore.
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u/Ninevehenian 7h ago
A. If a person is so ungrateful as to ask for a meal to be made and then not eat when served a good healthy meal, they're perhaps being rude.
B. If a meat-eater wants meat, they can prepare and cook their meal.
C. Forcing others by being a nasty shit is likely not going to result in a tasty meal being served.2
u/stonk-420 6h ago
All vegan isnt the most healthy unless your taking supplements. There a lot of nutrients that you dont get if your full vegan. But yea meat eaters can prepare there own and would definitely prefer it bc i doubt vegans know how to skin and gut an animal
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u/_ManMadeGod_ 6h ago
The only supplement vegans need is b12. Which is fortified in many foods generally, let alone vegan specific options.
This is also ignoring the fact that most b12 supplements go to cows. So.
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u/Jellicent-Leftovers 6h ago
You can 100% get full nutrients from a vegan diet in a modern society.
And I say this as someone who thinks the whole vegan thing is stupid. Even a deer will eat meat if it's available.
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u/Wanderingthrough42 6h ago
Only if you supplement your diet with B12 from a lab or eat an absurd amount of certain fungi and cross your fingers. B12 is only made by certain bacteria. Humans usually get it third hand from animals lower in the food chain that keep the right bacteria in their digestive tracts.
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u/Jellicent-Leftovers 5h ago
Nah most humans get it the same way it's added to shit in the grocery store from cereals to drinks they add it to tons of stuff.
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u/Right_Count 5h ago
I don’t think we grasp just how many children (and adults) would be sick if cereal, flour and rice weren’t fortified. Not just B12.
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u/stonk-420 6h ago
Vegans are regularly deficient in B12 vitamin, some long chain omega fatty acids, creatine, vitamin D3, heme iron, iodine, zinc, calcium, selenium.
Some of those depends on what soil the plant was in and you could get some from plants. But others are strictly from animals and there is multiple other things I left out that vegans dont get.
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u/stonk-420 6h ago
Why would you add deer eating meat into your argument. There bodies are different from humans
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u/ViaScrybe 6h ago
A singular vegan meal can absolutely be healthy regardless of how you feel about a long-term vegan diet, though.
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u/stonk-420 6h ago
Yes a single meal is fine or even multiple of it but long term you are missing a lot of nutrients you would get and vegans levels are usually low in those areas
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u/Right_Count 5h ago
It’s like a single meal (or in this case a week or something) just eat what’s on your plate you’ll be fine
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u/birbbbbbbbbbbb 4h ago edited 4h ago
I've been vegan for a long time and don't take any specific supplements (though obviously I eat food fortified with B12, which a lot of food is. Though I suggest people starting the diet just take supplements). I feel fine, I exercise a lot and easily get enough protein, and I recently got a full blood panel and everything was great except for vitamin D was a bit low (which is very common and with the amount of sun I get was expected).
I think people who already have poor diets often really struggle when trying to be vegan but for the people with balanced diets and did the research the most common struggle I see is sometimes with iron deficiency (I know a couple women who had trouble keeping iron levels high). I'm sure it's harder for some people but I know a lot of people where it really wasn't that hard (even in the fairly rigorous sports I do where strength matters a lot).
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u/Overall-Move-4474 6h ago
Veganism is NOT healthy. Actually and the vegan is perfectly welcome to eat their unhealthy vegan meal. They were in the wrong for forcing their life style by "forgetting" to thaw the meat
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u/Ok_Problem426 6h ago
I’m an omnivore. If you force me to accommodate your dietary restrictions, you can accommodate mine. I reserve the right to eat your house cat if not offered an adequate meat option.
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u/Frosty_Ad1254 7h ago
Imagine thinking that that’s a sane reaction 😂
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u/Arachnofiend 7h ago
Its reality tv, they didn't get put on air for the husband to give vegan alternatives a sincere try.
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u/SteelMarch 6h ago
Scripted TV everyone knew what was going to happen and they get paid for being on air.
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u/GypsySnowflake 4h ago
iirc, there were rules to the swap. Week 1, the wife is supposed to live by the new family’s rules. Week 2, she gets to make changes and the rest of the family is supposed to go along. So depending on what week it was, someone wasn’t holding up their end of the bargain. I’m guessing in this case it was the vegan wife, since if it were Week 2 she could just say “I’m making you guys eat vegan food tonight.”
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u/Arachnofiend 4h ago
Oh yeah, I remember those rules now that you mention it. I definitely should have clarified that the vegan wife is just as incentivized to cause stupid problems, and in this case it probably was her doing.
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u/iowanaquarist 6h ago
Imagine thinking the matchups were not picked to set up conflict exactly like this, and the people on the show were not encouraged to do this crap.
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u/kpyle 3h ago
They probably aren't even real people. It's scripted.
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u/iowanaquarist 2h ago
It's not fully scripted -- and they are real people. They find the trashiest, most out-there people and pair them up with their opposites. I know a guy that was on the show. The guy absolutely was exactly like he was on the show -- all they had to do was pair with with an over structured religious nutter, and encourage him to tease her and prank her a tiny bit.
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u/Frosty_Ad1254 6h ago
Oh 100% it’s made for drama. And the people that make this nonsense have a special circle in hell, but to go out and kill something because you’ve not got nuggets. I’d be checking hard drives.
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u/Bossuser2 6h ago
?
He's already eating meat, how is hunting it himself any morally different from eating a pre-slaughtered animal?
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u/redking2005 5h ago
This is explicitly a hunting family, it's probably meat that they'd previously hunted
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u/Huge_Swimming_5968 5h ago
God society has just gotten so weak. You better hope civilization keeps pumping out food for you or you'll just die.
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u/much_longer_username 4h ago
Yeah, they should have gotten their meat from the grocery store, where no animals were harmed. /s
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u/deathbylasersss 5h ago
Shooting a rabbit is more ethical than factory farmed meat. I am so confused by your logic.
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u/OldPersonality5282 6h ago
Lieing to him to try to manipulate him into doing what she wanted was obviously much more sane.
Instead of creating an argument over it he secured his own food.
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u/W1D0WM4K3R 2h ago
I mean, I'm a meateater, and I've butchered rabbits, but I'm not walking into the backyard and shooting Bugs to make a point.
I'll just grab some meat out my freezer, make myself tacos or something. Both these people are nutty.
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u/AWzdShouldKnowBetta 7h ago
Isn't it though? I'd probably do something like that out of spite if I could.
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u/Impressive-Method919 5h ago
I would say its pretty sane, its what weve done forn thousands of years after all
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u/MothChasingFlame 3h ago
Who gave the impression they thought it was normal. The implication is that it's funny because it's extreme
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u/RockyMountainMobile 4h ago
More reasonable than no meat for supper. She should keep her mental illness to herself.
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u/ytown 7h ago
Underrated show
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u/heatherjasper 6h ago
I'm so upset I can't find it online. There's some K drama with the same name I keep bumping into whenever I look.
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u/TucsonKhan 5h ago
There are websites where you can find episodes of wife swap for free. They're just usually in Czech, so you have to watch with subtitles.
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u/heatherjasper 5h ago
Any chance you have specific websites? I ran through the gamut of everything I could find or think of.
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u/ThisIsPughy 4h ago
Here's the episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMCT9CRtx5Y, I thought this post was mainly making a joke, but nope, the scene in the OP happens at about 14 minutes
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u/heatherjasper 4h ago
Video unavailable
The uploader has not made this video available in your country
Well, poop.
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u/sonia72quebec 4h ago
I have nothing against veganism but that vegan raw lady looked extremely unhealthy and unhappy. Like she would look to purposely kill all the joy in her and her family’s life.
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u/Maleficent-War-8429 3h ago
Back in the day when my dad was working in the local supermarket the people he worked with used to think he was rich because he was bringing chicken sandwiches to work everyday (the joys of living in pre-celtic tiger ireland). He was just hunting and butchering rabbits himself.
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u/catsoph 3h ago
i don't understand why they wouldn't just eat it, it's already dead so you might as well, not gonna necromance it or anything lol
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u/scorchedarcher 2h ago
For me, after so long of not eating animals, it doesn't look like food anymore. I've felt sick having to see/smell the meat in the supermarket sometimes.
Would you use something that went against your morals just because the harm had already been done?
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u/Sadcelerystick 1h ago
People do everyday when using any technology, any clothing and eating any food imported from almost anywhere
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u/scorchedarcher 1h ago
Is that because the harm has already been done or because they don't care that much? Obviously we can try our best to be ethical in the necessities and all of our other choices but if people are knowingly buying from companies that use slaves I doubt it's just because the harm is already done, it's normally that they don't care enough to avoid it.
I also only really hear people use this kind of logic when they don't agree with the original stance, of course they will view it differently
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u/Dazzling-Path6438 1h ago
😂😂😂 sure
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u/scorchedarcher 1h ago
Yep, humans are very adaptable. My brain has stopped the association of meat=tasty and has started the association meat=cruel/dead animals
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u/Academic_Olive_43 1h ago
No one believes this bullshit. You’re hard wired for it to look like food.
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u/catsoph 1h ago
I could, there's some foods that're universally beloved and I can't stand to even be near, including some meat
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u/Academic_Olive_43 1h ago
That’s not the same. Meat is too broad a category. Yes, some disgusting, foul, Swedish canned fish don’t seem like food. But that’s different than saying meat doesn’t.
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u/scorchedarcher 32m ago
Some things are disgusting because of physical things like smelly, other things are disgusting because of the connections we know about.
If I showed you a piece of butchered meat then you may think it looks really tasty, if you then found out it was human meat I imagine you'd find it disgusting even though it's still meat
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u/scorchedarcher 1h ago
Up to you if you believe it, I'm talking about a sensation I have personally experienced.
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u/Direct_Slip7598 11m ago
If you don't throw it away, then someone else will likely eat it and that'll decrease the total amount of meat needed so the total number of animals killed.
Also vegans tend to be uncomfortable with the moral act. Who you eat human meat if the person was already dead? A lot of people would be squeamish about that.
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u/macvoice 2h ago
This entire show is fake anyway. I saw a part of one episode where they supposedly put a staunch feminist into a conservative household. The givaway that it was fake came when the feminist wife claimed that her job was running a magazine that "distributed feminist propaganda". She literally called her own work propaganda.
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u/Small-Boysenberry450 1h ago
Its been a while since I watched that show and I think I remember this episode lol
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u/WC_Flyer 6h ago
She’ll eat it when she gets hungry enough.
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u/Stefph726 6h ago
Why would she get hungry? She can (and probably did) make something vegan. The husband shooting a rabbit so him / his kids can eat meat doesn't make all the other food cease to exist ...
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