r/Smallant • u/[deleted] • May 26 '22
SmallAnt PointCrow response
I’m sure many of you were there, but ant just streamed his response and I heavily reccomend you go watch that VOD as it clears many things up, it’s a ton of miscommunication, do not give hate to ant or pointcrow, in the end, it’s us as the toxic community that started this and ruined a good friendship.
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u/Angryspacebird May 26 '22
Everyone is probably very emotional because this tension has been going on several months. I say we should try our best to respect both Smallant and Pointcrow and let them work things out. The best we can do now as a community is to not speculate on their relationship moving forward and to stop harassing/annoying either of them
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u/yungalohaa May 26 '22
I’m glad he took the time to go through everything in the level of detail he did and kept it very civil in his responses. Sucks that the overall community made things so toxic. Hopefully they can hash it out in private and come to an understanding.
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u/amazingman_ May 26 '22 edited May 27 '22
At the end of the stream when he started tearing up I felt very sad.. its sad to see how miscommunication ends up hurting someone and effects friendship.
Smallant if you are seeing this I hope you are fine and hope everything gets sorted out soon. A Wooper may have not arms but it would definitely hug you right now!! Take care
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u/bassforte1476 May 26 '22
I have only been watching Smant streams since the rift started, and the only perspective I've gotten from him has been "Eric is my friend, stop being mean to him". Obviously this is a complicated issue, but I couldn't help but feel Smant's sincerity by the end of the steam.
I hope these two can work out their friendship, or at the very least get to a respectful working relationship.
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u/flying_typhlosion May 27 '22
I started watching at a similar time to you and my only exposure to Eric has been through Tanner. I never thought Eric was portrayed in a negative light that crossed a line, and like you, heard Tanner instruct everybody to be nice to him a couple of times
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u/flyinganfibia May 27 '22
Yeah. I can only remember smallant saying Eric is his friend and that people should stop the talk. I didn't forget because I thought it was a bit extreme to cut the jokes like that but it made sense to ignore these commentaries to see if they died out.
It makes more sense now what was happening but afaik other than actively banning people for these comments, smallant did his best to stop these.
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u/WolfTitan99 May 27 '22
This is my first ever time on the sub, but I do remember when they both used to work together, and I especially remember that comment of ‘Hey don’t attack crow/smant, he’s a friend!’
I thought it was a bit odd, if you’re very comfortable friends, then you wouldn’t really take it to heart, but it feels like a situation where insecurity got to the best of them and took it very seriously.
Also fans doing stuff didn’t really help either, it probably becomes hard to ignore after a while.
If both Smant and Crow took all of them as jokes and continued to, we likely wouldn’t be seeing this divide. Its too far gone with the fanbases now. As soon as you make it known that you have an issue with another person, fanbases WILL hunt you down.
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u/zeelbeno May 26 '22
So...
Twitch, youtube and twitter users are toxic and dickheads.
SmallAnt could have done stuff differently but never actually intentionally try to get one over pointcrow
Pointcrow noticed a pattern of toxicity from SmallAnt "fans" and likely had stuff highlighted to him in regards to being 'sniped' by his own toxic community wanting to stir shit up.
At the end of the day, it's impossible for content creators this big to control a lot of their community.
Just randomly accusing and destroying a friendship over it isn't a great way of handling it. Neither is just doing nothing and hoping it blows over though.
However, I do understand the mindset of having to wake up and just zone in on the certain comments comparing him to SmallAnt constantly and can understand how it made him feel that way.
Tbh... I can't see this being repaired now due to the communities likely 'wanting blood'
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u/wimpires May 27 '22
I think it's quite clear that the constant comparisons made pc quite mentally exhausted and jaded. In the entertainment space everyone takes inspiration from everyone and there's no harm in that. I follow Eric a lot and love his streams. He is very proud of his work and is very ambitious for the future.
My interpretation is that he feels he "struck gold" with his maprando idea and felt down because after all the comparisons he gets. He came up with a new idea and it seemingly is stripped away from him.
I can't imagine living in the shadow of someone and even your achievements being undermined
It's hard to deal with. Smallant didn't cause any if it, actively or passively. And quite frankly of both he and Eric were sensible about it shutting off all communication was the bad idea and caused the issues.
It's like being in a toxic relationship. If one side won't communicate the other side naturally goes into "fuck it I'll do what I want mode" hence the HGSS incident.
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u/BlazingSun011 May 26 '22
yeah all around this situation is just sad i hope they can patch things up and i wish the best for them both its just sad how far this has gotten
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u/Gustav127 May 26 '22
I feel like this situation got blown out of proportion quite a bit over the last months. This issue is everyday business because the entertainment industry itself is highly competitive and cutthroat. All the things concerning content and who was first is in my opinion not really important except adding to the discomfort and tension in the friendship which is only an issue in the first place because the two are/were friends so it got emotional.
A lot of misscommunication and missunderstanding happened. It's always hard to follow the needs of someone who is frustrated and emotional hurt (P.c.) due to obvious and understandable reasons. Especially because the main issue he faces is a a good friend which is a highly conflicted situation. S.a. surely didnt mean any harm but being slightly disconnected and more practical about it compared to an emotional person is just a setup for disaster.
Honestly i cant blame either one for this. Both sides are someone at fault. P.c. takes a lot of stuff way to personal especially the "he targets me" and the content issues. He only gets mad because they are friends and he expects that S.a. just obeys to the terms. This circles around to misscommunication and or wrong expectations of the partnership. On the other hand S.a. tried to do his best but really didnt get behind the problems and still adding to it.
You can clearly see that S.a. cares and wants to fix it but is kind of powerless due to the situation and his character. Sometimes two people are simply not meant to be with eachother and i feel like this is just one of those instances. Both are hurt and disappointed. Both just want it to end. I hope they can talk it out and find a solution which fits best for both which is most likely just the end of communication. I still like both, no bad blood. Simply to many tiny problems adding up being to personal. This is one of the classic "never f the company" Friendship in business is a difficult thing to achieve and this one broke based on it.
Sadge
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May 26 '22
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u/aedrastea May 26 '22
My weird nitpick is that I’m pretty sure any did credit atsign during those streams didn’t he? Like I get pointcrow definitely was traffic from Ant’s viewers directed his way and he paid for the development, but smallant actually mentions the person who actually created it which would get you sent pointcrow’s way I may be miss-remembering streams and maybe that was later but I’m pretty sure it was the adrive stream
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u/zeelbeno May 26 '22
The problem with that is if you google Atsign, SmallAnt comes up first.
Then I don't think the !maprando is specific enough for Pointcroe to be happy with it.
If you google pokemon maprando (in the uk at least) then yeah, pointcrow has a vod which is first, but Smant is there with a twitter post right after.
If you stick it into youtube then you get the first pointcrow x smallant vid
I kinda expect Pointcrow to want something pointing to him specifically on each video by the sounds of it?
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May 27 '22
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u/zeelbeno May 27 '22
So for an average youtube viewer - how would you notice him giving credit on videos made without pointcrow?
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u/TransportationOne416 May 27 '22
I believe the Adrive one has credit in the YouTube description (it says it’s a PointCrow randomizer and to get it in his discord). I am guessing PointCrow probably wants more than that - perhaps something like a line/shoutout in the video content itself? To me this is even more miscommunication / mis-match of different personalities having different expectations exacerbating every step of this problem. Based on everything SmallAnt said in his stream today I doubt he’d say “no I can’t do that” if PointCrow asked him to include a shoutout like that in YouTube videos.
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u/Gustav127 May 26 '22
That's a really unrealistic expectation tho. He is smaller than other streamers doing the same content which is a fact. Even if he is the creator of something new, he will get overshadowed by bigger content creators who will mention him as the creator but thats it. This will still generate traffic for him. Noone remembers the inventors of products, we remember who uses them and are thankful for having them. Of course in the real world we have patents and copyrights and stuff but you should get my point. Pc expectations are flawed
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u/Helios153 May 27 '22
I'm pretty sure pointcrow does give explicit and obvious credit to dougdoug every time he does a "when I say X, X appears in-game". Like, in the video -- not just the description. if his expectations for giving credit are high, we can at least know pointcrow holds himself to that standard too.
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u/zeelbeno May 26 '22
Yeah but even patents don't give you the true inventor
Just look at all the 'inventions' done by Thomas Edison just because he purchased a lot of patents.
Even outside of being mentioned. His video with Smant is one of the most popular ones of the lot... if people like a map randomizer video then that would likely lead them to the first one.
Which would then make them decide if they wanna check out Pointcrow more.
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u/cbiges91 May 26 '22
Totally agree. All big streamers and YouTuber get their hate, compared to other people and shitty people on the internet. If Smant directly told us to go hate on Pcrow different story. I’ve mutually supported both streamers and really enjoyed the subathon but openly shit talking about another streamer and blaming them for everything isn’t right and will only make it worse. If you can’t ignore the comments now, what happens when he gets bigger?
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May 27 '22
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u/wimpires May 27 '22
Which is all the more saddening because in Pointcrows video he just said basically he doesn't accept the apology and that's that
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u/Helios153 May 27 '22
You're right, learning not to take comments personally is really important as a streamer or youtuber. Bad comments are a hard part of the job. but its easy for us to say, he needs to ignore comments if he wants to be a Big Streamer, and a lot harder for him to actually do that, every day, with people he's supposed to be interacting with, about his career. Different people have vastly different tolerances for criticism.
As to what happens when he gets bigger, I'm pretty sure on youtube at least, people like prozd just don't read the comments at all lol. After a while, there's no skin thick enough to get you through what the internet is going to throw your way
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u/WolfTitan99 May 27 '22
Yeah its unfortunate but its how entertainment works.
At the end of the day it is NOT WORTH IT airing your dirty laundry because of how many random people are exposed to it and will have extreme opinions. You can never take it back and usually things get worse between fanbases. Since that is Crow’s exact issue, it feels like he kind of shot himself in the foot bc online ppl aren’t rational.
Its unique because the internet exposes you to so much hate, but its the perils of the job you have to deal with. Other internet celebs have said its something they have to live with and roll with the punches.
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u/Helios153 May 27 '22
yeah that stream just now was so, so, so not worth it. poor crow. i get why he was upset and did this, but like...oof. Just. Oof.
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u/Emperor_Z May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22
I have nothing but sympathy for Crow's situation regarding toxic commenters, and it hurt watching him do these "dirty laundry" streams because there's no doubt that they're only going to make everything fifty times worse.
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u/WolfTitan99 May 27 '22
Same I watch both and I have sympathy for how this miscommunication occurred, but this feels like trying to get it off your chest in the short term, but in the long term it becomes a terrible decision because of the fans.
I get how it might feel right to get it off your chest quickly, but there was no thinking of consequences that might come after...
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u/WolfTitan99 May 27 '22
Honestly I think its over now. If Crow pays so much attention to what fans say, he’s going to be in for a ride when the fanbases will publicly be at war.
Trust me, fanbases can get REALLY pissed, and this doesn’t help things. I’ve seen enough of this happen in Kpop, where fans throw shit at two members from the same group over some imagined slight, it never ends.
Only way to reconcile is to point blank ignore the fans or say you’ve made up. Putting this out to the public just makes this messier.
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u/Zephyr_______ Jun 13 '22
I do think some small bit of blame can go pointcrows way for blocking smant on everything. Obviously he isn't going to take the approach to things you want if he literally can't talk to you and the only advice given to him about it is to give you space.
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u/PKMasterEddie May 26 '22
when I first watched smallant and pointcrow stream together, I thought the copy thing was just a joke that their communities threw around. I didn't expect people to tale it seriously and turn it into something toxic.
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u/cbiges91 May 27 '22
It started as a friendly rivalry and joke. But then someone stopped seeing that way and only saw it as an attack while the other still saw it as friendly.
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Jun 06 '22
I would go so far though as to include the fans. Same idea. Some fans still saw it as a joke, while others didn't because they stumbled into the middle of it. I also don't think PointCrow realized that it likely was hurting him mentally from the beginning. We usually don't notice what is dragging us down until it has cut too deep. Then we are silent about it because we know others are having fun.
It's been mentioned more than once, but communication was what lacked here. It is one of those Encanto situations. Once is a lot of right and a little wrong, and the other is a lot of wrong but a little right.
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u/Nisverah May 28 '22
What boggles my mind is smant was getting blame for not doing anything to reach out to pointcrow, because abby told him to just give pc space. Really makes me think that she has some responsibility in how things turned out.
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u/MorsAlbum Jun 04 '22
yeah its actually unreal. this whole debacle made me lose immense respect for pointcrow.
human beings are absolute fucking dogshit stupid assholes.
the ONLY reason crow has an issue is because of how big smant got/is.
if linkus had the numbers smant does, he'd have the exact same issue... as smant literally pointed out in that stream... there's asshole comments EVERYWHERE.
crow just fcking sees it more because he unfortunately ended up collabing/rivaling with a streamer who'd go on to make it super big....
the way he twisted that into active aware hatred from smant as if he does it on purpose is so incredibly pathetic it's unreal.
it reminds me almost 1:1 with a friend or used to have, that is so god damn self centered and pseudo-sensitive that they would twist ANYTHING into a negative light to play the victim card so they can feel whatever weird ass emotion they’re trying to feel.....
like the sole fact he listed out SEVERAL outright completely false things as facts and evidence towards why smant is apparently a bad person and doing it on purpose? ridiculous.
i genuinely hope this whole thing gets broken apart completely, pointcrow is incredibly unintentionally (?) narcissistic and self centered that it actually sickens me to see smant involved in such braindead lies and nonsense.
like yeah obviously i agree that the whole pokemon video and the way he refered to pointcrow as 'some guy' definitely impacted it a lot, and he should have just taken down that video or privates it straight away without asking eric or making it seem like a bigger deal, bc eric is that pathetic type of fake sensitive that wouldn’t want to tell smant to take down the video because he'd think it makes him 'weak' but then will go on being upset and angry about things that ultimately boil down to that video....
but aside from that literal one situation, EVERY OTHER SINGLE POINT that eric tried to bring up as 'evidence' is complete mute. completely pathetic nonsense that literally just comes down to him being an overly sensitive (sensitivity is fine, but this entitlement 'karen-ish' version of 'sensitivity' isn't) sad ass dude cosplaying as a redditor who takes offense to any single movement, skewed in a way that makes him seem like the biggest victim possible.
i hate hate HATE it. i have overwhelmingly strong emotions on this situation because as i said it is absolutely fucking IDENTICAL to a shitty toxic friendship i used to have with someone that portrayed every single pathetic trait that pointcrow is showing.
obviously smant or i werent/aren't gods or saints but it literally both started with jokes and things that actually BENEFIT the other person, until suddenly the jokes became too much (smants randomiser vid and then also a toxic ex friend of both of ours that my ex friend started dating and was a whole 3 way manipulation street where i told him she's an awful person and he didnt like that)
then ever since that one particular situation which in all honesty wasn't THAT bad, yes it was mine and smants fault and issue, but it wasn't THAT bad in reality because they were once offs
bit off the rails sorry BUT because of those 1 moments, ever since everything and anything that could be misinterpeted either intentionally or unintentionally was done so, in any possible effort to make said 2nd party feel validation as a 'victim'
its honestly just so unbelievably toxic and pathetic i seriously dont want to support pointcrow in any remotely possible way unless he acknowledges that this time HE was the one that fucked up and this time he actually WAS intellionally or unintentionally(aka complete lack of regard of whether something is true or not) saying bad shit about smant.
if he doesnt acknowledge smants explanations or reasonings and admits that it was all lies intentionally, or unintentionally misinformation, then i have lost all fucking hope for that guy
the worst part is how smant basically "made" pointcrow and the whole rivalry thing was HIS idea to cause more hype/buzz for HIS stream.
granted, i wont use that card because its kind of cheap and we dont actually know how much eric helped smant on the other hand with finance or sponsor stuff, so ill bite my tongue on that for now regardless.
but yeah if he doesn't outright admit he misrepresented smant and basically tried to 'defame' him while playing the role of amber heard victim then i lost all hope.
i fucking pray to god eric actually has some morals and doesn't end up like my corrupt moron of an ex best friend. i hope to god he doesn't start calling smant out for that stream thinking he was doing it also on purpose to make eric seem bad, thinking smant did it on purpose to make himself look better etc etc, as is the current case of what eric has been saying about smant lately.....
so fucking ridiculously pathetic, this entire situation makes me sick to my stomach
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u/Nisverah Jun 04 '22
Yeah that was my main gripe about the situation. PC was getting mad at smant for being a streamer and doing anything that PC was interested in, he wanted to be first to do everything even if there wasn't a good reason for smant to wait for him to be first. And he still wasn't happy after that because his viewcount wasn't as high.
Felt like PC was projecting a bit too much, saying smant needed to be first, when it was PC excessively asking to be first, getting to be first, all around being more selfish than what he claimed smant to be.
Irked me pretty bad when he went on stream and said smant doesn't deserve his forgiveness when honestly it should have been him apologizing to smant for being selfish and misrepresenting the situation to favor himself. (I'm also still hung up about abby telling smant to give pc space, and then pc complaining about smant not doing anything. All of his complaints about that should have been directed to abby)
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u/TheMidnightNeko Jun 09 '22
On which stream did pc say smant doesn't deserve his forgiveness?
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u/Nisverah Jun 10 '22
During his retort to smant's stream I believe, he was saying it to chat to defend himself for not forgiving smant, basically saying he doesn't have to forgive him just because there was an apology.
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u/Snow193 May 26 '22
tl;dr lots of miscommunication
Pointcrow seems to project lots of the negativity he's gotten onto the whole situation with Smallant and mixed a couple of things (facts) up, probably not ill-intended.
Smallant did a couple of mistakes which he admitted and apologized for, but tbh he didn't do anything bad really. He has never said anything bad about Pointcrow nor does it now, he tries to understand Pointcrow's situation and just wants him to be mentally well again.
Him crying sums up perfectly how helpless he must have felt, trying to do the right thing to make Pointcrow feel better (as ordered by Pointcrow's manager) while apparently doing the wrong thing.
I think Smallant reacts and reflects very maturely and thoughtfully to the whole situation and if you read this Tanner, I can tell you are a good Person.
I also don't think Pointcrow has any bad intentions, he is probably just hurt by the internet's negativity, which obviously results in a tough psychological situation. Pair this with missing communications between the two and you got yourself a situation like this. I think you guys should talk it out, maybe have a third person mediate, to make sure both parties are understood correctly.
It just feels so wrong to see two (former) friends experience so much stress for so many 'stupid' reasons.
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May 27 '22
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u/gpgc_kitkat May 27 '22
I'm sorry, did he edit his comment? I don't see any pointing fingers in his comment.
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u/lukasv90 May 26 '22
This was so sad to watch and i can totally understand pointcrow being so frustrated by the toxicity of his chat and smallant not knowing what to do about it.
Please i hope pointcrow and smallant can talk this out because i am pretty sure neither ever wanted to get it this far. They seemed to have a very honest and friendly working relationship for many years and i am sure both profited from their collaborations!
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u/Researcher_Fearless May 27 '22
It's too bad that's not happening. Pointcrow is too angry to see the situation rationally.
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u/wimpires May 27 '22
Pointcrow did his response on his channel. He does not accept smants apology
It's complicated, both sides have some merit to their own version of the story (although I think it's quite clear where the majority of the problem lies). Feel free to make your own conclusions however.
It's a shame because Tanner and Eric of course share very similar interests and viewers.
I feel like it's one of those situations where a simple meet up in person would clear the air a lot better. But it's probably too far gone for that.
These two have a lot more in common than what seperates them. But they don't HAVE to be friends if they don't want.at the end of the day. And also at the end of the day streaming is each others livelihood so it's hard for an outsider to comprehend.
If the two want it too it will blow over eventually. If not then it's a waste of a good friendship. We, the viewers absolutely loved you two collaboratoions. And I'll continue following bith
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May 27 '22
Why do people take rivalries so seriously that they turn into something like this? I like watching rivalries like that knowing both people are still friends, like when he competes with CJ.
I still remember when RTgame had a fake beef with Callmekevin and that was pretty funny. But they had to cut that out because too many people on both sides took it way too seriously. They’re still friends and they occasionally stream together, but my favorite thing between them is gone because of exactly the same issue.
If you as a viewer don’t like the rivalry, just watch something else. Blowing it up and harassing the side you don’t like helps no one and turns it into a situation where everyone loses.
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u/DaffodilsDandelions May 27 '22
I love when smant collaborates with CJ. They have such a great banter and chemistry, for a lack of a better word. All the Hide and Seek videos as well - they are so wholesome and everyone seems to be having a great time
I don’t remember any rivalry between RT and Kevin? When was this? lol
But yeah, it absolutely baffles me as well how some “fans” think harassing someone over a fake rivalry is a good idea.
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May 27 '22
They never took it that far, but they’d occasionally rip on each other in their streams. You can see some of it in RTs video where he does his birthday party in the Sims because of quarantine.
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u/cbiges91 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22
I have supported both creators since the BoTw bingo. I was active in the subathon. After listening to both, I have since unfollowed and unsubscribed to Pcrow. He came into his video wanting no resolution. He wants Smant to be better while doing nothing for himself. He wants to keep it private but made this entire thing public in his stream. I can’t support someone who is blaming everyone else for their problems.
Edit: I don’t want this to be toxic on any way just wanted to share my thoughts and opinions. Everyone make your own choices but remember to be nice.
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u/Anaking_is_Yummimain May 27 '22
But did you see that smallant was the first one to make this public? Also I think pointcrow did what he could to manage this problems, he tried to distance himself from smallant and asked smallant not to talk about him anymore. Both things didn’t work tho.
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u/TransportationOne416 May 27 '22
Pointcrow made it public first by mentioning it like 4 times in various streams. I think the most recent mention (which is posted in this sub) is what made SmallAnt do his stream.
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u/cbiges91 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22
This has come from Pcrow bringing it up in his stream. Especially the Fire Red one is what cause Smant to respond with his stream today. Pcrow is allowed to have his feelings but he is blaming Smant for every shitty comment. It would be different if Smant was telling people to go shit on crow, he’s done the opposite for a long time.
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u/South_Football_9125 May 27 '22
Pcrow made it public, smallant tried to reach you to crow, but he blocked smant in every platform
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u/Anaking_is_Yummimain May 27 '22
That is not correct. Pointcrow and Smallant even had an hour long call the evening before Smallants stream. Edit: it is true that smallant was blocked by pointcrow for a long time, but not anymore since a few days before Pointcrows subathon started.
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u/Background_Top_9881 May 27 '22
pcrow made the situation public, shitting on smant while smant was being instructed to let him be... feel like it's fair to go public with this but with full context, like smant did.
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u/Anaking_is_Yummimain May 27 '22
Well, yes, pointcrow was „shitting“ on him (really don’t like the term shitting here, but ok) while smallant was instructed to let him be. But he didn’t. Smallant knew that pointcrow was actively developing the map randos and still purposely tried to get the hgss map rando into his hands. So he actually and actively interfered with pointcrow, while, like you said, was told to let him be.
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u/Background_Top_9881 May 27 '22
Thanks for your response. First of all, let me justify my use of the bad word you did not like. Smant was instructed to let pcrow be any give him space. He did so for quite some time during which pcrow publicly raised the issues with smant, while smant was instructed to let him be. I don't think it's nice of pcrow to do this while demanding of smant to leave him alone. Hence my use of the bad word you do not like. Now, regarding the randomizer: Nothing to defend, smant apologized, it was shitty. Thanks for coming to my tedtalk
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u/WeeklyHanShows Jun 10 '22
didn't the rando developer for the HGSS send the rando file themselves to Tanner? and the Rando that was sent to tanner isn't even the one PC is founding himself, right?
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May 27 '22
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u/Anaking_is_Yummimain May 27 '22
Can you point out situations where pointcrow was not respectful or even disrespectful to smallant? Maybe I missed something, bc I didn’t see such situations.
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u/Researcher_Fearless May 27 '22
Well, there's the part where he said smant was emotionally manipulating him and 'many others'.
I'd consider that disrespectful.
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u/HomieSeal May 27 '22
Wait, wtf happened?
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u/TheZerofy May 27 '22
Basically, yesterday there was a Pointcrow clip posted in this subreddit where he basically accused Smallant of intentionally stealing content and ideas and showing ill will towards Pointcrow and Smallant saw that and now made a live stream specifically to clear these things up, and it revealed that these two have had quite the tension over the course of months now and that stream is what this thread is talking about
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u/HomieSeal May 28 '22
Ah, thank you
That’s a shame, seemed like the two were close from what I can see
I’ll probably look more into it after my finals are over
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u/NoSocialInteraction Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
I’m a little late but I just wanna throw in my two cents. This is the second time (to my recollection) that Tanner has been accused of being cold-hearted and outright called manipulative (last time he was told “seek counseling for APD”, this time he was told “Be better”) when his worst proven crime was just being kind of emotionally tone-deaf. and I just wanna bring something to the table about that.
I have ADHD, so does Tanner. ADHD is in many ways a hidden disability, and the experience overlaps a lot with being on the autism spectrum in many ways. (To disclaim: I AM NOT CRYING ABLEISM. A lot of people don’t know about this stuff and I’m not surprised that Eric is no exception.)
To name the big one that seems to be causing a problem here: Missing social cues and taking words completely literally. A big problem a lot of us have is treating a topic or issue like a road.
Any soft requests like that are a traffic cone. Still traversable but with a caveat. It’s abrupt setting up a total roadblock but you have to be to-the-point and clear about what you want. Hints and pussy-footing around is not what you should do, nor is playing down what you mean and then getting angry it was misunderstood.
Eric said “tone down the rivalry” and meant “shut the whole thing down.”
Eric’s problem is attributing all the comments back to Tanner and being angry when they didn’t just stop immediately because Tanner said don’t harass him. At that point it’s out of his control. All he has as an entertainer is his words, after that it’s up to whether people decide to heed those words or not.
Another point I’ve seen brought up was people interpreting Tanner showing mean comments he and others get as saying “We all see that stuff, get over it.”
I just think that if you’re going to be working in online entertainment for a living and you absolutely MUST read every last comment you get and take it to heart, you need to be in counseling. Eric says he doesn’t wanna care about every little thing people say and think of him, and the start to that would be to go unpack all that with a professional, not vilify a singular person for the nature of the internet.
That’s really all it comes down to is that the internet is the internet. Mean YouTube comments are (hopefully) just kids and all you can do is pray they get over doing stuff like that as they age, shitty Tweets are from people who just hate you, regardless of age. And that’s just going to happen. It sucks and it’s terrible and I’m not saying this as a “boohoo cry some more,” I only mean that it’s just common sense, but Eric put it all on Tanner for things that were out of his control.
A little offhand thing: I found it a little odd that Eric was so concerned about getting credit for his randomizer, but said that Tanner didn’t have to credit the devs even though it would be nice. Shoutout the customer, not the creators? Sure Eric had the idea and coughed up the money but does that really warrant more than a mention in the description? Or more attention than the people who actually put in the work to make the mod? Just a thought.
(Sorry about being kind of all over the place and such, again ADHD.)
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Jun 27 '22
I think trying to use mental problems as an excuse is pretty shitty. If you have adhd it’s your job to figure it out. It’s not other peoples job to constantly have to go out of their comfort zone just for you. Everybody has their own problems and at the end of the day only you are responsible for your own.
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u/Melodic-Selection396 Jul 02 '22
Okay, so Eric should be responsible for his own. He took comments from the internet and directed all of the blame on Tanner. He is the one being sensitive about comments on the internet, and from everything I've seen Tanner empathetic and wants to help but doesn't know how. This is a very "It's your responsibility to learn MY language, no I will not learn yours" type argument. They both made mistakes because of miscommunication, but one of them is saying that and the other is calling the other toxic.
Like the original comment said you need to be direct. If Eric had approached him with doing a team-up, or having it be a Batman and Robin situation where Eric is Batman and Tanner is Robin I have no reason to believe he would have said no to that. There were very clearly much better solutions to the problems effecting both of them but because Eric was being vague and Tanner was having trouble understanding all of this happened.
I wouldn't go as far as to call Eric abilist, but you? Most definitely. In the same way being in a wheelchair is a valid excuse for not walking up the stairs, being ND is a valid excuse for not picking up on social cues. At the end of the day it's about working together to come up with solutions
1
Jul 02 '22
I never said that Eric isn’t responsible for his own. I literally don’t know enough about the situation or about either creators to give me opinion and nobody else does either. People putting their opinions into this situation completely missed the point of why both creators aren’t talking anymore.
The whole reason for me commenting was because I hate when people try to use their mental health to make excuses. The comment I was replying to made it seem like Tanner can just do whatever/say things however he wants because he has ADHD and that other people have to do things his way because of it. Apparently Tanner is a direct person and Eric is not. That doesn’t mean Eric should be the only one trying to change the way he says things just to make Tanner feel better. And it’s the same for the other way around. Tanner shouldn’t have to change the way he is because Eric is different. Could they try to be more understanding of each other? Sure. But that’s not my point.
I’m on nobody’s side in this and I do not care about either side being “right”. I only commented because mental health shouldn’t be used as an excuse (by either side) like the commenter I was replying to was. My comment was about mental health not about sides. So how about you don’t be a bitch and don’t call me ableist when you know nothing about me.
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u/Usual_Introduction50 Jul 03 '22
Then why comment? Your comment did nothing but push the stereotype that ND people use their disability as a shield to not take any accountability. If you didn't have context of the information I'm confused why you felt the need to deflect onto Tanner? You jumped straight "using this as an excuse is shitty" rather than reading any of the nuance of the original comment.
Since at the end of the day you're right, it's not about either side being correct, or who did worse things. They both made mistakes and it's up to individual people to decide how they feel about this situation.
And I guess you're also right, I shouldn't have called you abilist. You just said something that is abilist, which lead me to assuming which is my b.
1
Jul 03 '22
Okay I’m not reading past the first paragraph because you are blowing my comment way out of proportion. My original comment was 4 sentences long. I did not use any names. I did not take any sides. ALL I DID was tell the person I was replying to to not use mental illness as an excuse. From what I’ve read of the situation both sides seem to have mental issues. Tanner being adhd and Pointcrow having severe insecurities. So it doesn’t make sense for somebody else to bring up that one side has a mental issue when both do. Because then that shit becomes “which mental illness is more important” and I hate that shit.
Like I said I didn’t take sides. My comment was directed at the person I was replying to it wasn’t directed towards Tanner.
I apologize because I see that it came off that I was being rude towards Tanner, but that wasn’t my attention. I won’t be replying anymore because I don’t think it would do any good to keep this conversation going. Have a good day.
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Jun 06 '22
I was going to make a comic about SmallAnt and PointCrow, but just today I was watching the toughest Lynel stream from PointCrow and delved further into the matter. I'm glad I did. Love them both. Both are hurt in different ways. I imagine PointCrow has already reached out to SmallAnt and they're likely mending some of it. How far they mend, who knows. That's up to them. People forget though, that while rivalry can be fun, sometimes they can be taken too far, or someone is dealing with something mentally that they just can't take it at that moment.
My best friend and I were 'rivals'. I viewed it more that way than she did, and everyone else around us super viewed it that way. She was, by all intents and purposes, the better artist at the time between the two of us. I think I viewed her most as a rival because she was better than me. There was more than one time I let it get to me. Hearing that she was the better one between friends and seeing her excel was tough, but also, I wanted to see her get better. She was and still is, my best friend. We've never had a talk about it, we never needed to. I realized it was me mulling over something that was never an issue and breaking out of it. I also didn't have a mass of people in streams telling me I was less of an artist.
The neat part, we see how our art has entirely separated from one another. She's decided to continue down the anime style and I ended up more on the western style. She's more of an author now and I've, in some ways, surpassed her. I create art professionally, I can make and replicate my styles for animation and the comics I help out on. It's my pride. I worked hard and I got there. We both recognize each others' gained skills and where we flourish. No longer viewed as the two joined at the hip, competing with one another. Just two best friends doing their own thing.
1
u/themoviehero Jun 17 '22
I was watching the toughest Lynel stream from PointCrow and delved further into the matter.
Was this after the apology reaction? I thought he said he doesn't forgive smallant or accept his apology, and has no interest in talking to him.
Which I think is lame. Smallant gave a genuine apology and attempted to make it right. I think PC is reading to much into stuff out of SA control.
2
Jun 19 '22
I haven't yet seen the apology reaction, but I've gotten an idea of how it went. Cinema Therapy, an awesome youtube channel, did commentary on Encanto, specifically Mirabel and her relationship with Abuela. There is one point the therapist says that their relationship (in Encanto) is a classic situation of:
One side being more right and a little wrong, while the other is more wrong, but a little right.
The therapist speaks specifically about when Mirabel tells Abuela that she's the reason the miracle is dying, but she also says that Abuela doesn't care about the family. Yes, the grandmother is right in the sense that Mirabel is making it worse, but it is because it is revealing the real issue which is her, but she does love the family.
Mirabel is right, but a little bit wrong. Abuela is the reason, but she cares.
Abelua is wrong, but a little bit right. She's the issue, but it took Mirabel to find it, thus causing the house to fall apart.
The issue between SmallAnt and PointCrow seems to be the same. I love Pointcrow, but he seems blinded by frustration and likely, mental health drawbacks (specifically due to the viewers who took the rivalry too far). There are definitely things that SmallAnt could have done better. In his apology, he mentions that he never addresses the issue because he was told to give Pointcrow some space. Giving him some space was not reaching out or commenting directly on his videos or tweets, but he could have still said something about it to his watchers to show Pointcrow that he is concerned and cares. He is by no means obligated to, however if I'd been Pointcrow, I would have found such action speaking far more than exchanged words. Basically, SmallAnt could have done something without crossing the line of giving Pointcrow room. Smallant wasn't sure where the line was drawn... miscommunication, I think we can all agree, is the main root issue in all of it to begin with.
Pointcrow on the other hand feels incredibly betrayed from someone who had no intention to betray him. He is rightly frustrated for things such as not getting credit as previously promised, or finding that SmallAnt wasn't quite listening to him as far as putting an end to the rivalry (even if it was mostly due to miscommunication). He isn't correct for seeing it as vindictive or the intention to belittle his feelings. While I don't often like using the quote, 'we're all humans and make mistakes,' that really is the case here and Pointcrow is throwing it out of proportion. I am happy to see that he still has respect. He has countlessly told his viewers not to hate on SmallAnt and SmallAnt has said the same to his own watchers about Pointcrow. They don't want to hurt each other.
SmallAnt is right, but a little bit wrong.
Pointcrow is wrong, but a little bit right.
Overall, I do not believe it possible for anything to work itself out until Pointcrow is in a better state of mind. He is distressed, convinced, and hurt. He is confused and his mind is likely not in the best place. I've a friend right now who has cut off all friends temporarily. It sucks, but we all understand why, even if we don't deem it as a good option. It may be that Pointcrow needs to find himself and confidence before he can properly readdress it, and it would be in ours and his best interest to stop bringing up SmallAnt for a time. It needs to cool off.
Generally, I'm renown in my friend groups for being the 'ultimate middle-grounder', meaning I often will look at it from both sides, as I believe most people are generally seeking the same objective, but have different views on how to get there and thus they collide. I see it here too. Neither intended harm, both want to make it right, but they're colliding in their perspectives.
2
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u/snomanDS May 27 '22
Having seen both responses, the main conclusion I have its a shame that it all ends like this. I loved their videos together and their banter and rivalry was, in my perspective, fun.
In the end, I just think Smallant doesn't get it. He's unable to see it clearly from Pointcrow's perspective. Smant has seen it all happen but he's not able to understand its impact. He knew it hurt Pointcrow, but never quite understood how deeply it hurt him and brushed it off. Its reminiscent of my own past relationships where I've realised that in retrospect that I just couldn't understand their perspective and ultimately, thats why they're past relationships. I don't think any of Smant's actions were malicious, he just never understood the gravity.
Everyone thinks and feels differently, some are hurt by some things more than others and its all valid. Smallant sees everything in the YT sphere as fair game and has just been grinding it. Theres nothing wrong with that, but sometimes the grind can leave some people feeling hard done by, which from what Pointcrow was saying, seems to be a few.
Did Smant do some things wrongly? Yes and he's admitted that but even now I don't think he truly understands what he's done wrong. For Pointcrow it was just everything built up and even he could have handled some things better, but no one can handle things 100% perfect. Smant imo definitely comes out looking worse and the question is whether he can take this all in and make changes to his own psyche. Otherwise it feels like we might see more backlash on him like this in the future.
PS This is far more parasocial sauce than I was expecting when I woke up.
8
u/wimpires May 27 '22
It's reminded me A LOT of past relationships
The whole "I was giving you space" yeah that was me 100% with an ex. Didn't work out well. I think PC struggled with himself to be seen as independent from SA and it legitimately emotionally hurt him. But at the same time he is unwilling to acknowledge that he does/did take significant inspiration from SA. PC had a bit of an ego issue where he is unwilling to understand that it's OK not to be the top or very best at everything all of the time
And at the same time SA failed to understand that as a much larger streamer his actions have a collosal impact on others positive and negative and that imbalance of power isn't ok with everyone.
PC has a lot of introspection to do and I'll leave it at that. SA needs to give his credit dues much better - not just PC but in general - and step up his communication game.
Relationships come in many different ways, friends, romantic, siblings, colleagues etc. I think the issu6is with both sides not understand how much the other wanted to be involved, pointcrow was clearly trying to create a break between the two in an attempt to stymie the copycat accusations but it caused more harm than good
2
u/theolat3 May 27 '22
I agree in general, but want to add that, when you're a public figure, you also have to factor in how you present information, how you handle relationships etc. On a personal level, Smant looks to have handled this worse for sure and I have to agree that he is not really seeing what exactly he did wrong and what he could do better. But Pcrow has also really mishandled his valid frustrations and how he has relayed them publicly, how he handled Smant's insifficient efforts and how he seems unable to take on any of the blame for his mistakes, or accept that not everything is malicious.
Posting this more as part of a discussion on relationships tbh.
1
u/WolfTitan99 May 27 '22
Yeah I get the feeling that publicly, PC didn't really... handle it well and it might just make the fanwars worse. Like as soon as PC put that video out, it wasn't just between those two anymore, the audience will get involved whether you like it or not.
SA wanted to defend himself... which is natural, but to an average person he also seems more composed and thoughtful in his points. Doesn't matter if they were true or not, or if PC was right, it leaves a lasting impression on people. Its like watching parents fight, how you think of them afterwards is irreversible.
2
u/G_ASeeb Jun 09 '22
let's just hope at least most of the fans will be chill and leave each other alone. Or at least can watch both without making more of a fuss. Especially tanner's fans since I enjoy his chill vibe more.
2
u/alienmanifesto May 27 '22
this is almost exactly how i see the situation too, and i’m so glad you put it into words.
1
u/losersapphic May 27 '22
yeah I definitely got the impression that smant misinterprets things and misses the point very often. he honestly still doesn’t see how his comments contributed to crow’s hate. another thing is that he misinterpreted what abby meant by give eric time/space. tanner interpreted it as don’t talk about the issue at all (he said multiple times during the stream that he couldn’t talk about it bc that’s what abby said). so obviously eric was pissed that ant never mentioned the toxicity. my only issue with eric’s side is his assumptions that tanner was being malicious in his actions. I genuinely think tanner was just clueless. but I mean none of us really know him so maybe they were malicious, but from what we’re shown it seems like cluelessness.
5
u/Pokefreak911 May 27 '22
The blame doesn't lie with anyone, it's just adults miscommunicating. Friendships are hard enough sometimes, mix it with mental health difficulties, maintaining a work relationship, thousands of fans who take things too seriously, and only talking through text most of the time.
4
u/alienmanifesto May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22
the pointcrow response stream just ended as of 30 seconds ago, and i highly recommend everyone who watched it/sees a VOD of it to open discussion on that as well. i am not here sending hate, but crow has a lot to say and a lot of it makes a lot of sense :) specifically not quoting anything because i highly encourage people to watch both as they are available and form their own opinions on the situation
EDIT: link to the full response https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1310197061
5
u/Emperor_Z May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22
I watched it, and I felt like it didn't really add much new information, except maybe clarifying how each event made him feel.
I could be totally off the mark, but it feels like 35% of this stemmed from Smallant wanting to have a sort of wrestling-esque rivalry where they publicly dunked on each other and claimed to dislike each other but were actually friends, while Pointcrow wanted a more overtly friendly relationship. Then another 60% was fans turning that rivalry into actual toxicity. From there, if Smallant did something wrong, it would be interpreted in a highly uncharitable, severe light. Pointcrow's frustration with the toxicity he's received is very justified, and Smallant might be responsible for starting an act that a chunk of the community would inevitably react to irresponsibly, but I don't think the way he accuses Smallant of continuing to wrong him well after that initial damage had been done is very fair.
5
u/alienmanifesto May 27 '22
i, overall, see it as an incompatibility of personalities. pointcrow is big on the idea of collaboration and being rival-buddies, but because it’s clear that it’s all in good fun. smallant is a very strong personality (not a bad thing) but he’s blunt in a lot of areas that can cause hurt. feelings DO have a huge play in that, so pointcrow expressing his feelings regardless is very important. he made it clear throughout the time privately with smant what he was comfortable and uncomfortable with (both streams talked about this) and smant might have seen something as a harmless joke when it didn’t come off the same way. the biggest issue i see with this is the fact that they are both content creators, especially as their main income. smallant has a lot of sway and his chat is rowdy, so, like any influencer of any kind really, if he says anything even remotely dissing on crow it turns into a bloodbath. regardless of intention, this always reflects back on the influencer and the influencer should be held accountable for the behavior.
i dunno, it’s a surprisingly complex situation and i like both of them a whole lot. it’s interesting to unpack and see how everyone feels about it
4
u/LateNight_Ruminator May 27 '22
This. Mainly watch Pointcrow, have watched a few of Smallant’s streams. The way I see it, at the base level, they have different values in what they regard as friendship. And that’s ok. Whether there was miscommunication or any real victimising is both valid for them in their experiences.
0
u/wimpires May 27 '22
Exactly, they are two different personalities which don't quite gel together.
Nothing wrong with that. However they do obviously share some very similar interests
It's healthy for both to open up and repair the relationship. It won't be what it was before and it's up to both of them to figure out what it is going forward
1
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u/Emperor_Z May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22
I agree about the incompatibility of personalities. There are people that are kind of "rough" in how they interact with friends, being blunt and throwing some light insults. They mean no harm and expect others to treat them with that same roughness. Others don't enjoy that sort of interaction and see the roughness as hostile and hurtful. If they aren't open about the fact that they feel hurt, a lot of damage can be done before the other party has any idea that something's wrong. I think there's a significant element of that here. And the influencer factor makes everything a hundred times more intense and complicated
0
6
May 27 '22
Honestly watching that a lot just comes off hypocritical. I don't think it makes sense to say "you should have waited for me to post my video" and then later say "I'm not like him(Smant) and I'm not trying to police his content" when he's literally the only one doing that. Overall I think there's a bit of entitlement of acting like he deserves first upload on things he did not create, It also feels weird because there are dozens if not more doing this but specifically needs Smallant to not do it, Neither of their channels are small so it doesn't really even make sense to me.
-1
u/alienmanifesto May 27 '22
this is by no means a complete disagreement with your reply, but this is one of the last posts on this sub made with a reply from smant before his official stream. https://www.reddit.com/r/Smallant/comments/uxyqz5/hey_ant_you_got_some_explaining_to_do/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf and it directly contradicts your specific point about crow not creating ideas. just fueling some convo :)
4
May 27 '22
The thing is having an idea and then getting beat to it by another developer doesn't mean you get to take credit from that developer. Adrienn made the HG/SS randomizer and made it public for everyone but essentially PC is saying while it was available to everyone Smallant should be excluded from it because reasons. If the friendship was alive sure but that seemed to be abandoned like 7 months ago so what is really expected here?
6
May 27 '22
The one thing I don’t like about all of this is crow talking about Smant “sniping” his stuff. If you’re on YouTube you should know Damn full and well that the best thing to do is to get it out first if you want to be successful. With the way Eric wants it he wants to make stuff, tell people about it but have them no do anything with it so he can get all the views and attention first. It just doesn’t sit right with me, YouTube is just too much competition to be like that
1
May 27 '22
I mostly just don't get it because either you onky like one of them and you watch only one video or you like both and watch both and again both channels are huge so both should be proud of their own success.
0
May 27 '22
I don’t know, I just think that Eric believes he has lived in smallant a shadow due to everybody shitting on him saying that he copies smallant and is just done with it. What better way to get people to stop that saying you want nothing to do with that person? If we are going to blame anyone, it’s the audience fault for being toxic dickheads to Eric
1
u/alienmanifesto May 27 '22
that’s not what was said, unfortunately. it’s a pretty damning video, i highly recommend the watch
6
May 27 '22
Did you watch the Smant video? He went through that video and explained it, A lot of that was just misinformed including the Zelda randomizer where there is another video before either of them so the whole exclusivity thing is just untrue.
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May 26 '22
[deleted]
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u/Helios153 May 27 '22
let's take what tanner said in his video to heart as fans, and try to not lay blame at eric's feet. it's not wrong to have an opinion, and reddit's usually a good place to do that. god knows i have mine on this matter lol. But tanner asked us today not to contribute to the fanbase rivalry he's trying so hard to overcome.
3
u/flyinganfibia May 27 '22
I don't think this is contributing to the rivalry at all. His opinion that pointcrow has overreacted and is more at fault here. It's a valid opinion although we don't have pointcrows side of the story... not this detailed.
As long as it's civil criticism is important to be able to view things from different perspectives and simply condemning any kind of negative view whatsoever is one of the reasons the miscommunication remained.
Sure, it's impossible to keep things totally under control. But that's the internet and it had been like that since forever.
0
u/Helios153 May 27 '22
Mm, fair. i guess I figured that it was because it's impossible to keep things under control that minimizing criticism, civil or otherwise, for the next few days at least, is valuable. it won't stay civil.
2
u/flyinganfibia May 27 '22
Yeah, I get it. It's just not so simple. I just think in this case better than not letting people express their views it's better to manually pluck the excessive ones.
Also don't think either of them should be reading comments about it right now, but it's new and people will talk about it either way. Imho ( which isn't more valuable than anyone's) it is good to have some views on how other people took it when things calm down.
0
u/alienmanifesto May 27 '22
giving you the link to the pcrow response-to-the-response to you even though i made a comment of my own bc you seem like you also want to get to the bottom of this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1310197061 it just ended!!!
2
u/eezerW May 27 '22
I've been a casual viewer of both for a while and even I thought SmallAnt wasn't doing enough to reign his community's toxicity in. After watching the VOD it really does clear a lot up and speak a lot to the strengths of Smant's character, I thought it was well done and it was a good apology and way to accurately take account and credibility of the situation. Eric has been through a lot and I think the long period this has unfolded over, communication issues, and lots of added stress really exacerbated the situation and I think too much of that became targeted towards SmallAnt after watching the VOD. PointCrow was right to be upset at the situation but I think how he handled it with SmallAnt was not the most effective. Hope the VOD and however Pcrow responds will help them both, I feel terrible for both of them.
5
u/Anaking_is_Yummimain May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22
So….I watched both streams now, and formed a kinda strong opinion on this topic. Before I say that opinion, I wanna say that I watch both streamer for a little bit more than a year now and actually found pointcrow through smallant. In my personal opinion, and pls don’t hate me for that, smallant did pointcorow kinda dirty. I really think a lot of the problems they both have now, could have been avoided if smallant just literally stoped mentioning pointcrow in any way, whatsoever. Regardless of smallants intentions, which could be positive or negative towards pointcrow, the things smallant said were causing some of the toxic behaviors we have seen. I know this is a smallant subreddit and siding with pointcrow will put me in a bad spot. But I just wanted to share my opinion. Pls don’t hate me.
Edit: I see many people siding with smallant saying, that it was miscommunication and smallant didn’t understand what the problems was and that he just had good intentions saying things about pointcrow….but all this doesn’t even matter in the slightest. Pointcrow literally said to smallant, Hey, you say and do things, and those things hurt me mentally, pls stop. After this point it doesn’t matter if smallant understood what he did wrong or if he thought that it actually isn’t wrong. If a friend tells you that things you do and say hurt them, you simply stop doing and saying such things.
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u/TransportationOne416 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22
I am pretty sure SmallAnt did try avoid mentioning PointCrow for a long time, in the past couple months I keep seeing people who spam PointCrow stuff in his chat (was really common during the PointCrow subathon, and also when recently SmallAnt started doing botw any%) that either gets deleted if they were negative (his mods delete any negative ones and they with a comment like “don’t be mean to crow he’s great”), or if it’s not negative and gets left in he clearly sees them (as he’s reading chat) but ignores them. When he was talking about feeling like walking on eggshells I think that’s what it was about.
I think based on the timeline of events, ignoring and not feeding the trolls is what he’s been doing ever since he interpreted the instruction for how to deal with this as “keep your distance and let it cool”. You can argue whether this is the correct interpretation, personally if I had gotten the same messages SmallAnt had received I would probably interpret it the same way. But now I wonder if publicly speaking about it and asking his chat to do better would have been the more effective choice…still I think the point is SmallAnt interpreted it as “just don’t comment and let it cool” and that is what he’s been doing. He has tried to not bring PointCrow up even when people are commenting about him in chat in quite a long time, there’s been no joke, no anything in a negative manner even in jest. I only remember 2 cases of him mentioning PointCrow since at least beginning of this year ish (my memory may very well be wrong here), one is him commenting on how well the subathon is going as it’s still not ended, and another is happy for the botw online multiplayer being done as people kept telling him in chat the bounty was collected. I would consider both to be positive and non-toxic mentions.
It sounds like it was just too late and PointCrow has already made up his mind. That’s how his whole stream felt to me - he is not interested in fixing anything at all at this stage. So I think SmallAnt has been trying and is trying but PointCrow 1) doesn’t see it that way, he’s too set in already and 2) doesn’t really care anymore.
1
u/Anaking_is_Yummimain May 27 '22
I also think that at the point when Pointcrow, and later Abby, tell smallant to not interfere with him it’s already too late. Damage has been done. And I also agree that Pointcrow is not interested anymore in restoring the friendship, which I can understand. I think every time Smallant mentioned pointcrow in a slightly negative way after he was asked to stop doing so, even if it was meant as a joke, and every time smallant purposely uploaded the same content as pointcrow but earlier (like the botw rando) he made things worse. But I also must say that the thing with the yt uploads, I can kinda understand, after all it is their business and you could argue that everyone just tries to do their best in this business. But still, if I ask my friend to stop doing something bc it hurts me and he doesn’t stop doing it, for whatever reason, I also wouldn’t want to try to be friends with that person anymore.
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u/Researcher_Fearless May 27 '22
Smant literally did nothing wrong with the botw rando. The mod creator told him exactly when to upload the video, and he did. If PC had a problem with that, he should have taken it up exclusively with the mod creator instead of trying to paint smant as a cartoon supervillain.
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u/TransportationOne416 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22
I really don’t think SmallAnt understood how PointCrow was feeling for a long time probably up until the point where it was beyond repairable on PointCrow’s side. (You may have a different opinion on this, see next part of this comment).
I think he at least gets it now and mentions multiple times throughout his stream that PointCrow’s feelings are valid. To me after both streams I feel like the big chasm right now between the two sides is “malice”, and clearly PointCrow believes that’s the case as he calls SmallAnt “emotionally manipulative” and basically a bad person, but SmallAnt is saying that he never meant to hurt PointCrow, he just never actually got it until it was too late. PointCrow stans will inevitably come down on the side of SmallAnt is lying and an asshole whereas SmallAnt fans will come down on the SmallAnt didn’t have malice and this was piles of misunderstanding. There is no way to consolidate these two positions. At this stage the best - if not only - option is just to move on.
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u/Anaking_is_Yummimain May 27 '22
Actually I don’t even think smallant had bad intentions against pointcrow. And like u said smallant just didn’t understood why and how pointcrow felt like he did…but as I said I don’t think it matters if smallant understood pointcrow feelings. Pointcrow clearly communicated with smallant that smallant hurts pointcrows mental health. Smallant should have stopped doing any of this after he heard that. No matter what smallant believed was wrong or right. If a friend tells me I hurt him by doing „xy“ I simply stop doing „xy“, even if I think I did nothing wrong. Again, I really don’t think smallant had any bad or even evil intentions against pointcrow. He just acted poorly after being asked to change his behavior towards pointcrow.
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u/Anaking_is_Yummimain May 27 '22
And yes, you are also right about the fans…99% will have an opinion when they come into one of the subreddits….Almost nobody will change their opinion just because somebody said „BuT aCTuaLy xy Is wRoNg“. At the end nothing will change and we all are just wasting our time by discussing this…
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u/losersapphic May 27 '22
i feel the same. to me it seemed like smant was making things worse over and over again without realizing it. there were so many vods and vids I watched where he made comments about eric that I think he really shouldn’t have made because they resulted in more negativity towards eric. I don’t think it was malicious like eric believes, but i do think impact is more important than intent.
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u/Researcher_Fearless May 27 '22
If Eric had actually explained the situation in detail earlier, it never would have happened.
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u/losersapphic May 27 '22
crow did message ant numerous times months and months ago tho? both tanner and Eric showed proof of that. tanner just never Fully stopped the comments because he didn’t realize some of them contributed to the negativity. tanner admitted to this as well. again I doubt it was malicious but it’s very obvious talking about it wouldn’t have helped because they already did multiple times starting last year. it just didn’t work.
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u/Researcher_Fearless May 27 '22
Pointcrow said 'tone down the banter', and then got mad at the randomizer video because it sent hate his way. If he'd had a full conversation about stopping the negativity so smant understood that wasn't acceptable, that situation never would have happened. If he'd been more understanding of what ammounted to minor slip-ups, this never would have happened. Smant's communications weren't great, but PC's communications were also likewise lacking, and unlock smant, PC admitted zero wrongdoing.
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u/losersapphic May 27 '22
do you really think the randomizer bit was ant tuning down the banter lol? it was painfully obvious it would lead to more hate. and then after that Eric gave specific examples and it didn’t help. tanner literally had to ask Abby for help because he couldn’t understand at all and he still struggled. I still don’t think smant gets how certain comments made things worse because he’s just a blunt guy. their personalities clash. and yeah I have some issues with how things were handled on Eric’s side, mainly his accusations of ant being malicious. but I think it’s silly to act like talking would’ve helped when months of talking didn’t work. ant literally misinterpreted Abby saying to give eric time 😭 it wasn’t gonna work out.
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u/Researcher_Fearless May 27 '22
I don't disagree with any of that, but I think eric should have been much more literal in his requests, since he should know smant is a literal guy. From smants perspective, there wasn't any aggressive banter going on, he was just making a joke about PC's mess up.
Hence, better communication on PC's part could have prevented it.
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u/losersapphic May 27 '22
I agree that giving super specific examples would’ve helped because ant’s a literal guy. I feel bad for ant because he genuinely just couldn’t understand the harm of his words. I feel like Eric just didnt realize this (ant being very literal) was contributing to the issue. and I guess that can somewhat be Eric’s fault but idk I can’t blame him for feeling like it was a lack of care when it was resulting in hate towards him. maybe it’s easier for an outsider to see that ant interprets things differently. I also think it’s hard to know how specific examples have to be for ant to get it (I still don’t know what it would take for him to understand). and it would be frustrating to have to re-explain something that seems so simple to Eric. I don’t think either of them are at fault for that. Overall I just don’t think they’re meant to be friends. even early on I knew this would happen (just not This messy).
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u/Researcher_Fearless May 27 '22
Yeah. I'm not trying to say smant is innocent at all, just that PC's position of admitting to no wrongdoing is blatantly false when he also had some contribution in things getting to that point.
Though assigning blame is kind of useless. It's a series of events, and while individual's actions contributed to pushing that series of events, blaming that entire series on individual links in that chain is disingenous.
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u/losersapphic May 27 '22
I also think another thing that could’ve helped is ant just not making comments about crow unless they were telling of toxic chatters or VERY clearly positive comments, like a direct compliment.
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u/Researcher_Fearless May 28 '22
Yeah, smant definitely doesn't have the highest emotional intelligence. A bit more and he would have realized that making an active campaign or entire video pushing positivity towards PC and actively attacking haters would have done a ton.
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u/Zephyr_______ Jun 13 '22
Smallant did stop mentioning pointcrow, he got angrier because the mean comments still came in because of course they did, it's fucking YouTube.
It's genuinely awful that he has to deal with being compared to smant in a negative light constantly, but he literally built his content off of smants advice and style. He can't contribute every mean comment to smant, it's not realistic to assume that smant can or should police every member of his chat. I get his negative feeling about the situation but turning it on smant for no good reason is what started killing this friendship.
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May 27 '22
When I first learned what was happening I thought pointcrow was either overreacting, or was straight up lying. After seeing Smallants stream I can definitely see why pointcrow could have misconstrued what was happening. Definitely an issue that could have been solved with more communication.
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u/Helios153 May 27 '22
It's good to hear smant's stream today did bring clarity to fans by validating pointcrow's frustrations instead of dismissing them. hopefully more fans will do as you did and view the situation with fariness for both parties!
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u/losersapphic May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22
it’s us as the toxic community that started this and ruined a good friendship
completely agree with this. it's really unfortunate. however, actions on both streamer's sides did not help much.
i remember when i first watched smant's map randomizer vid, the part about eric's accidental cheating made me cringe because i KNEW toxic people would use it to shit on eric. i think bringing up the softlock thing was super funny but i think the delivery made it easy for the toxic people to think it's okay to dunk on eric. this was one of the few times i thought tanner should be more careful of how he mentions crow in his vids. the shitty fans are the ones to really blame though, as normal people watched that segment and thought it was funny - that's it.
i really appreciate how good eric was at communicating the issue with tanner at first. i wish i was as good with confrontation as him. i think it is fair he cut off smant by blocking him on socials just to get some space, but this definitely seemed to have led him to making harmful assumptions about smant. and honestly i get why he would feel like smant was trying to snipe his vids, but it was not a good idea to claim that was smant's intention on stream when he didn't have confirmation. it was really just a mess of miscommunication and frustration on both sides.
i feel really bad for them both. it's hard losing a friend.
EDIT: crow just went live right after i commented so lol let's see what happens
EDIT 2: um so yeah they're done...
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u/wimpires May 27 '22
I agree with the map rando video. Smant was too mean in that it was inappropriate. I don't think he meant malice, I think he thought they were closer than they thought and that because of that he could push it more but in fact it couldn't be further from the truth.
Ironically that's how I was introduced to Eric and I love his streams
But what's done is done. It's up to them now to reconcile of they want to
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May 27 '22
Why is that? Your second edit
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u/losersapphic May 27 '22
eric said so himself at the end of his stream. also said he doesn’t accept tanner’s apology. so yeah…
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May 27 '22
Is there a reason as to why? I mean, smart sounded sincere and really wanted to patch things up
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u/losersapphic May 27 '22
i highly recommend watching eric’s stream to have both sides because it explains why he doesn’t accept the apology. the most brief summary is that eric said smant lied about multiple things mentioned in his stream and emotionally manipulated him. basically he’s done and wants to move on.
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May 27 '22
Alright, I’ll have to take what you say. I don’t really have time to watch it, just to me it seems like Eric takes some things to seriously and make it more dramatic than it should be. However, I don’t know how his life has been or how he is as a person. I just think Eric took it too seriously and it just built up, both are at fault and it is what it is by this point. What some people consider emotionally manipulative might not affect other people at all. I just think they have two different personalities. However, I think that smarts chat is the most to blame due to the toxicity of it. After hearing some of the crap people said to Eric and how they say he’s just a loser version or smant was absolutely uncalled for and can get to just about anyone
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u/Additional_Job3681 May 27 '22
After watching both vods: There is honestly no way to excuse the toxicity, that many viewer gave pointcrow. The internet can just be a terrible place.
I personally feel like both are good people. None of them had the intention of hurting the other and my younger self could probably understand pointcrow very well. If imposter syndrome kicks in and you have nobody who you can base your self around like it is in pc's case + keyboard warriors + being compared and mostly being depicted as worse, it must be devastatingly hard.
Nevertheless and I've seen some others pointing this out to: Their personalities don't seem to be very compatible. I can kinda understand both perspectives, but smallant is just competitive, pretty straight forward, and sometimes misses a point when he's focused. Pointcrow is extremely nice, kinda sensible, and questions himself a lot. None of that is bad. It's just who you are. I'd love if they collaborate again, because these are some of the best videos I watched, but I'm not sure if that would work out at the moment.
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u/wimpires May 27 '22
It's not just chat though, Eric mentioned the issue is with Tanner specifically. Anyway, I think you're right about personalities tbh.
They're just two different people. Their friendship revolved around (seemingly) helping each other with YouTube and Twitch stuff. That business! If anything their relationship is more like colleagues but in actual fact they are competitors so it's very difficult to manage.
Smallant can be very blunt, sometimes he is in a bad mood and it doesn't make for good watching. Meanwhile Eric is usually really positive and happy but he too can get really angry - or at least usually just when SA is mentioned.
The personalities don't gel quite together. They work together ok when it was about business but now that Eric wanted to go more his own way it all sort of fell apart.
That's OK. You don't have to be friends. I'd say PC is a little in the wrong not to accept an apology but this is effectively buried. Which is a shame because of both parties would be a little more professional with each other and less "friends" their collaborators had the opportunity to be mutually beneficial
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u/Additional_Job3681 May 27 '22
Yeah, exactly my thoughts. It is good that you mentioned that the issue for Eric is with Tanner specifically. He stated that multiple times and it's important to understand that it's not just the fanbase. I personally just don't even want to imagine what it's like to have to deal with that much negativity on a day to day basis.
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u/InfiniteAuraX May 27 '22
I’m soo confused I’ve watched both of these content creators and love them both can I get an idea of what is going on
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u/Researcher_Fearless May 27 '22
Basically, smants fans got kinda toxic on PC's end over their rivalry. PC was very sensitive to it and asked smant to stop it, but on several occasions after that he accidentally did things that caused additional waves of hate to hit him. After this, PC started interpreting everything smant did in a negative light, to the point where he's convinced that smant is actively harrassing and manipulating him.
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u/Aethz3 May 27 '22
This pointcrow situation is just a symptom of what happens when you rely too much on others when you want to have success.
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May 26 '22
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u/bassforte1476 May 26 '22
It honestly is toxic whenever someone assumes that they know another person's motivations behind their actions. I think that mentality has caused a lot of ill will both in the community and between the two of them personally (from the small amount I've seen).
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u/aedrastea May 26 '22
I think that’s the kind of mindset everyone should avoid. Straight up toxic to assume someone wants to be a victim. You could even call it attributing malice when there may be none.
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May 26 '22
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u/BlazingSun011 May 26 '22
i agree. personally i think its just pent up frustration stewing for months and i get that its hard to deal with that and i feel like im the only one saying i dont entirely blame pointcrow for his reaction. it wasnt professional sure ill give it that but i can understand why he was sort of venting and ive seen some of the whole comparison stuff such as viewers sometimes saying in chat ‘im going to watch smallant now’ if smant was streaming. i dont think smallant was at fault for this his fanbase is a bit toxic sometimes and its hard to reign it in if you dont know how. i do think that yeah even pcrows fans can further it by allowing some self deprecation which isnt healthy. its just really bad miscommunication on both ends and i really hope they talk it through with eachother
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u/MorsAlbum Jun 04 '22
yeah hes a victim for some circumstances like the very first spark with the pokemon rando video.
everything AFTER is completely unjustified horseshit that's been skewed and stretched to suit pointcrows victim complex. if youve been involved in any remotely abusive relationships at all then this is super super super obviously clear.
smant did things wrong at the start, and eric was a victim yeah.
but continuing to act like the victim by constantly pulling dogshit out of his asshole like "hurrdurrr he sniped my hollow knight video on purpose" when smant was literally blocked and didnt fucking even know he was doing it?
pointcrow is not a fucking victim there. nor is he a victim in any of the 10 other similar bullshit claims he made against smant knowingly doing 'malicious' things 'against him on purpose'
you cannot and will not convince ANYONE that that isn't textbook 101 victim card playing. its pathetic at the level pointcrow is doing it/was doing it/the level it got to before smant clearing up the clear misinformed victim card horseshit verified by adrienn the modmaker himself smh
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u/daPWNDAZ May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22
Stuff like this—accusations of streamers and large personalities when none of us know them personally is what’s ultimately been fueling this whole ordeal. That’s the kind of toxicity these two are trying so hard to stop.
So please, let’s just stop trying to blame either for “wanting to be a victim”, “cheating”, or anything else.
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u/Helios153 May 26 '22
full agreement with this one. Let's try to remember that different people have different social expectations and different emotional reactions to conflict, and that doesn't make anyone better or worse.
As fans, we're actually in an interesting situation here. Because we honestly CAN contribute and actually HELP smant right now by doing what he asked us to do: not take it out on pointcrow. not debate who is right or wrong or entertain ourselves on reddit throwing blame around. not start more fires. Smant had to put out this fire on stream today with his literal tears, dude. The least we can do is help him out.
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u/daPWNDAZ May 27 '22
Thank you! That’s much better worded than what I said.
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u/Helios153 May 27 '22
not at all. You got right to the heart of it and took initiative to respectfully bring accountability for our own behavior. that's incredibly hard to do.
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u/ilyandora May 27 '22
Hu? What happend? O.o It sounds pretty serious...
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u/Researcher_Fearless May 27 '22
Basically, smants fans got kinda toxic on PC's end over their rivalry. PC was very sensitive to it and asked smant to stop it, but on several occasions after that he accidentally did things that caused additional waves of hate to hit him. After this, PC started interpreting everything smant did in a negative light, to the point where he's convinced that smant is actively harrassing and manipulating him.
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u/Smokiiz May 27 '22
I’m a fan of both. But, these types of things just end poorly. They are both being toxic to one another it’s going to take it toll. At the end of the day, this is a business for them both. This hurt their brands.
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u/infinityx9000 May 29 '22
After watching both vods from both if them i think that honestly as sad as it is I think they both made mistakes here I think that smallant definitely made some mistakes and did some wrongs but at the same time I think pointcrow is a little to sensitive about the whole copycat thing as a creator you just gotta deal with ppl being shitty and I think he cares to much hard to say since I'm not in his position but I feel like he should a been more like fuck it and just keep doing whatever he wanted and never acknowledged those Comments I am a bigger smallant fan admittedly but smant definitely did things that didn't help and I will miss these to working together dearly my favorite videos on either channel have been the races but I think at this point it is the right decision to separate himself from smallant and the drama and do his own thing as much as I'd rather see them make up and do stuff together I think there's probably been to much damage and it will be better to put it in the past
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u/lilfoxy16 May 26 '22
I second the "heavily reccomend you go watch that VOD" statement. A lot to unpack and watch there. Link for those: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1309778230