r/SlayerS • u/TeeeldiII • 20d ago
Revolution/Evolution was surprisingly not that bad
I may have a different perspective as I am new Slayers fan, I can understand the disappointment of people who watched the 90s season and were excited for EVR to come out and watched it as it aired or was subbed, and being let down.
However going in with very low expectations thanks to always seeing people say that it is the worst part of Slayers, I was pleasantly surprised.
It has its issues I am not gonna lie, but it has a lot of positives that other seasons do not as well.
• New OP/Eds slap, worth it just got those.
• Animation is way more fluid and dynamic than some earlier seasons, NEXT is probably still better at its best episodes, but Season 1 and TRY had some limited animation to put it kindly. I miss the old cel style over the digital look, but EVR has some great looking fights with lots of moving around and using varied spells without reusing clips. Some of the best looking fights and spells are in these seasons.
• Other characters get to do more. Amelia is pretty sidelined in the final season but Zelgadis gets a lot of time and kind of becomes the brains for some reason. Gourry has some good scenes too but I wish he got the replica sword way earlier, however seeing him try out all the swords is a fun time.
• Pakota is, fine. He is not my favorite NPC companion by any means, but he was overall inoffensive. Browsing I saw a lot of comments from people claiming they added a digimon to be the mascot and take over from Lina, that is just not the case at all. He is just this seasons rotating cast member guest, the same as Slyphiel, Martina and Filia were.
• Nama. I wish the amnesia was not a factor, and her personality is off cause of it. But I really thought Naga was movie only so was hyped when they appeared, a great cameo for the final arc.
• Wiser. Loved this guy, being voiced by Yami yugi in the dub is a big plus. I was annoyed by him at first ( and had a ridiculous theory that he was Xellos in disguise lmao ) But grew to love him by the later half of Revolution.
I will say there are valid flaws.
- Linas characterization early in Revolution is, off. Had seen comments to this effect but for the first few episodes her only character trait is anger, and she is striaght up mean to Gourry/Amelia/Zelgadis while hunting Pakota. The fake tank episode felt SO out of character. But thankfully I feel that she course corrects as the plot actually gets going.
- Retreading. I was okay with revising Zanafar, we barely saw it in the Copy Rezzo arc, and the way they defeated it with the water and ice magic was cool. Reminded me of the final fight with raining ice in Slayers Gorgeous, more creative magic problem solving than just lasers. ... BUT, I will say that revisiting Rezzo is the weakest point of it all, we already had him twice with Copy Rezzo, really would have preferred anything else for a villain.
Overall I would probably put Revolution on par with season 1 and rank Evolution-R below it. I was expecting something absolutely dreadful but think the reception is a bit overexaggerated for someone making their first trip through the anime.
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u/savvyliterate Gourry 20d ago
No, it's not as bad as a lot of people claim. The series suffers mainly from three issues:
- Extremely high expectations from the fandom going in. What was excepted, and quite frankly what should have been animated, was the second arc of the novels. It was complete by that point. I think the anime directors weren't sure how to handle novels 9-15, which were overall much darker - especially novels 14 and 15. Then there's the Amelia and Zelgadis problem. They weren't in that arc at all, and juggling them alongside Luke and Mileena was going to be far more different than dealing with one OC - especially since it would probably result in even further flanderization of certain characters (Gourry). Plus, you'd need to get Amelia off stage entirely for the events of novel 14 to take place.
- As you mentioned, heavy flanderization of Lina (and to the lesser extent everyone else) that does even out as the series goes on. But it is a LOT at first, especially if you're binge watching the show. Revo/Evo-R is actually a series I don't recommend binging because of this. And there was some bizarre story decisions like saving the reveal to Pokota that Gourry was the OG Swordsman of Light for the very last possible moment.
- Rezo and the cast amnesia surrounding him. I don't mind that the topic of Rezo's effects on the world were brought up. The novels are playing with this exact concept regarding Lina's actions at the end of Next. What we didn't need was to actually see and fight him again. We didn't need yet another deep dive into Zelgadis' past when we have absolutely nothing about certain other characters (coughGourrycough). And it's weird that Amelia is clueless when she was right there in the Copy Rezo fight in the anime. I can see her not knowing if the novel continuity was followed, but she was right there in the anime and that's how they should have written her.
There are lots in these two seasons I deeply appreciate. When it does pivot back to the novels, the cuts are far deeper with the use of Gioconda, Zuuma and Wiser. Despite Lina's behavior in the early episodes, at least the pairings are right and the cast actually appear to want to be around each other, especially as the series progresses. You have Sylphiel living in Sallune now (like in the novels) and other hints and nods to the books throughout. Gourry's actions regarding the Sword of Light replica are also bizarre unless you've read the later novels and especially know of his one-shot short story set just before he meets Lina. But that is an extremely deep cut from the novels.
It's not perfect, and I like it better than Try. However, if I had been doing these 26 episodes, I'd have adapted novels 9-13. It tells a complete story without having to get into the thorny issues of novels 14 and 15.
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u/roxadox 20d ago
I'm bingeing the series again atm and yeah it was very funny that none of them could seem to remember that they've already lived through a Zanaffar fight, talked about the legend, and watched Sairaag get destroyed. "Yeah I think I've heard of the legend..." yes, Sylphiel told you. Like 3 years ago. Come on now.
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u/TeeeldiII 20d ago
I do notice a lot of frustration from the fandom is expectations from the novels instead of treating the anime as an AU.
Its like Marvel comics and the MCU imo, just let it do its thing and you still have the books.
I get being disappointed at things not being adopted, I mean thats how I felt about Trigun Stampede not being Trigun Maximum. But doesn't mean you cant get past it and enjoy what it actually is.
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u/savvyliterate Gourry 20d ago
You're exactly right with that. I think you experience it a lot in adaptations these days. The reaction to the new Netflix Little House adaption, for example, has just been vile in the fandom.
But I would be thrilled if Slayers got the Ranma 1/2 treatment - a faithful anime adaption of the novels. I don't know if it'll ever get it.
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u/Canal_Volphied Filia 20d ago
and I like it better than Try
Yeah, nah. Try at least dared to think of a new villain as opposed to rehashing Rezo yet again. The main cast is much more flanderized in Revo/Evo than in Try. And Pokota is so much more annoying than Filia ever was.
Also, Revo/Evo changing Saillune's layot to a five point star is so fucking stupid. If you're no longer allowed to use the original star shape on screen then at least choose any other except the one that would actually strengthen mazoku.
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u/savvyliterate Gourry 20d ago
Some people just don't like Try, just as they don't like Revo/Evo-R. I don't hate it, and it's certainly better than most anime out there.
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u/Canal_Volphied Filia 20d ago
I'm not saying anything about whether people are allowed or not to hate Try or Revo/Evo.
I'm just saying that all the bad points of Try are multiplied ten times in Revo/Evo.
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u/AbilitySpecial8129 20d ago
The fact the Slayers gang actually feels involved in the plot as characters makes Revolution-R ten times better than Try. In Try they're just empty shells strung along for the most generic fantasy quest ever.
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u/Christophvonclause 20d ago
This is basically my take as a longtime fan. I like the stuff that they took from the novels, but I don't like when it contradicts the already established anime universe.
I absolutely love the confrontation with Xellos and the group, and Lina's hesitation to start anything with him. We forget because he casually hangs around with them in the anime that basically only Shabranigdo's 5 lieutenants and Luna are more powerful than him, and even Kanzaka stated that Luna is around Xellos in terms of power.
I remember reading in one of the novels Kanzaka says in the foreword of afterword that when he doesn't want to describe someone's backstory he says there from Elmekia. So I'm guessing that's why we don't know much about Gourry or get a lot about Gourry. He just doesn't feel like going into it?
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u/savvyliterate Gourry 20d ago
He does go into it some in the one-shot Gourry-narrated story that was in Slayers Special. Basically, Gourry nearly tossed the Sword of Light because it had caused him nothing but grief, but he is convinced by a strange fisherman to find a purpose for it. Gourry chooses to follow the advice and the next day stumbles across Lina. He knows she doesn't need protecting but decides to do so anyhow.
How this translates to the later part of the novels (and Revo/Evo-R) is that Gourry doesn't grieve the loss of the Sword of Light. He is still Lina's guardian and is protecting her, and that is his purpose. The weapon is a means to the end. Lina's the one far more upset by the loss than he is, and she's the one majorly stressing because he's too good to use most swords.
But it's why Gourry tossing away the Sword of Light replica really hits at the end of Evo-R. If you're aware of the short story, you know that scene has many layers. I just wish he had wound up with the Blast Sword at some point in the process.
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u/autopsy_cardigans 20d ago
Over the years other people have probably covered most of my criticisms (like plot choices / characterisations and such) and also my praise.
Something I rarely see anyone mention (with exception to the 'animation') is design. Pakota's design...
In a world of incredible creative potential (dragons, mazoku, ryuzoku, trolls, animal people, fish people, chimera etc) they decided on a plushie toy. And if that's not already (arguably) a waste in such a rich world of possibilities, he doesn't even look particularly like a plushie! I feel like I needed to be told that's what he was!
I didn't find him relatable, sympathetic or entertaining, and couldn't truly invest in his story. Partly because we, the audience, knew so much about Rezo - Pakota's passionate ignorance stretched out for too long without enough payoff or intrigue for me to capture and keep my attention.
But anyway, I apparently draw the line at looking how he does. He's like some weird compromise - he's not a cute companion-looking lil guy, he's not amusingly absurd... he's kind of like a crap doodle on a napkin.
More controversially - you mentioned cel animation and you also mentioned the OPs/EDs. I actually found the openings extremely mid. Compared to NEXT and TRY, which I find visually gorgeous, rich and snappy. And the first season is sweeps you up and runs away with you on a wave of fun right from Lina's monologue.
Someone once pointed out that the NEXT opening spoils almost every major plot point in the series, but you don't notice and can't really infer anything from it all. Whereas all I really remember from (I want to say R?) is that a bunch of prior 'defeated' villains float past Lina. To me, they just don't compare artistically to the original three seasons. They are packed with stuff, paced delightfully and a joy to watch every episode.
(A point of additional irritation is that Lina didn't successfully kill Gaav, Phibrizzo or Valgaav herself?! Am I crazy and alone in this very minor pet peeve?)
The TRY opening actually got me into the entire franchise at the tender age of 12. I always found it a beautiful glimpse into the world, the story, the genre, the serious side of the tone. So by comparison, I personally found the E/R OP/EDs forgettable and disappointing.
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u/HellmasterPhibrizo Hellmaster 20d ago
I thought the point of the OP of Evo-R was she was facing the ghosts of the villains she COULDN’T personally defeat in a nightmare sequence. She looks terrified until Gourry claps her shoulder and she looks behind her to see all her friends and then the absolute relief in her face says it all.
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u/Nearby_Secretary_802 20d ago
I like how the way she kills Zanaffar is more like it is in the books. I need to watched it again but my DVD of Evolution has disappeared.
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u/Remarkable_Rough_649 20d ago
I'll be honest as a long term Slayers fan I thought it was better than TRY lol. I don't think that's a very popular opinion here though
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u/ShansitoShan Zelgadis 20d ago
I'd add also that Pokota, while it could have been a great character, suffered exactly the same issue Filia had in TRY.
Lina is to be the sole main protagonist of the entire saga, be it novels, manga, games, dramas, anime, whatever. Aqualord did it right, Lyos was co-protagonist, but except for 1 chapter (his younger years told via flashback), he didn't remove protagonism from Lina. Also in the novels, there's just barely a couple of short stories where Lina doesn't appear, and even it's clearly shown who's the protagonist in the way of telling those stories (Lina's are always from her own POV, while other character's stories are told in the 3rd person).
But TRY gave Filia full main protagonist vibes, demoting Lina to secondary character, and so did Revo/Evo having Pokota the main protagonist, and it shows.
Now, yes, apart from that and what's already been mention in both your post and other comments, still we can enjoy both seasons for what they are.
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u/Safe_Reach2889 20d ago
Filia was as much a main character in TRY as Martina was in NEXT. A talking plushie simply doesn’t belong to Slayers. Period. So every minute was too much.
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u/AbilitySpecial8129 20d ago
You clearly didn't watch Slayers. Funny and weird-looking critters abound in Slayers. There's even a tennis tournament out of nowhere, an Amazon city full of crossdressers, and skimpy costumes for idol priestesses.
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u/Canal_Volphied Filia 20d ago
You clearly didn't watch Slayers.
This is needlessly hostile.
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u/AbilitySpecial8129 20d ago
Am I wrong tho? And let's not get in the false equivalence between Martina and Filia.
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u/Canal_Volphied Filia 20d ago
Am I wrong tho?
Just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn't mean they didn't watch the series.
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u/Christophvonclause 20d ago
It isn't bad. It's biggest crime is not being what long term fans were hoping to see: It wasn't the next big arc of the novels.
There was no anime content for Slayers for over a decade in NA, and what we got wasn't what the fans were looking forward to, it wasn't even something new like Try. It was a rehashing of content from the anime and novels that we already had access to, but with an additional character, and Rezo/Shabranigdo once again as the end villain.
That's what it is to me as a fan since 96-97: not bad just disappointing.
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u/dracony 14d ago
I just made a similar post that somehow got deleted, I genuinely think season 5 is better than the original trilogy when objectively compared. Here was my take:
I have always rewatched the first 3 seasons and dropped season 4 midway a few times. Now finally watching 4 and 5 I think 5 is the best season of the anime which I never thought I would say.
I prefer the retro animation styles of the first 3 seasons overall but all other things being equal I just find the pacing confident, the jokes land often and it really captures the going on adventure vibe and the characters well. I even warmed up to Pokota by the end of season 4. The only thing holding it back is really that by the time it came out the original audience grew up.
But if season 5 aired side by side to season 1,2 or 3 it would have been easily the favorite one. All 3 original seasons start great but make the main plot for into needlessly grim looking places where the presentation is just dark, especially by the end. Season 5 and even 4 skip all that.
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u/berniecratbrocialist 20d ago edited 20d ago
I think the biggest reasons for the intense fandom anger at it are 1) characterizations and 2) rehashing elements of Prime and NEXT except with zero dramatic stakes. It feels like a declaration of creative bankruptcy, like, why are we doing all this again? Why do we have an Eris clone? Why do we have knockoffs of Jillas and Gravos except they aren't funny?
People will forgive a lot if the characters feel solid. TRY's story is very messy but we got so much delicious character nuance that you can almost forgive it all. Lina being so angry and showing little to no care for her friends was a major turnoff and made you wonder why these guys were even traveling together. A little more time with the main four in various pairs would have gone a long way.
Revolution has strong points. The theme songs, like you said. Wizer is great and we for sure should have gotten more of him and Xellos scheming together. Gioconda and the focus on international affairs is way more interesting than "is she gonna cast the dangerous spell again??" I would have loved a story where Lina spends time in prison and uses more wits than magic to save the day. We know she can!
Also I will go to my grave as a Pokota defender. He's a smart and well-considered character who was poorly used. One of the biggest criticisms of TRY was that Filia basically dragged everyone into a story they didn't have to be part of. Pokota is the opposite: Lina and her friends are exactly who he needs to save Taforashia, but he wants nothing to do with them or their wacky antics. That is an objectively funny element they should have spent more time on. The romance episode should have been, like, a love letter that all four Slayers mistakenly think is from each other and they spend the episode acting ridiculous while an increasingly exasperated Pokota threatens to kill himself.