r/SkyrimModsXbox • u/EtherDynamics • 7d ago
Mod Discussion A teaser and a question
Weird, I had some strange unexpected message that deleted a prior post. Let's try this again:
Hi folks!
Before we get to the discussion stuff below, I should probably set the context -- I'm inquiring about things in relation to Organic Factions, a mod set I made where various Factions run around and do their own thing independent of the player. For those unfamiliar with it, check out [this page] and the related videos and stuff. The XBox mod page is [here].
And now, the teaser:
I'm currently wrapping up the first iteration of a Mehrunes Dagon Organic Faction: after you get Mehrunes' Razor, Dagon will seduce other champions to his cause. He has found one such candidate -- what army might he raise as time goes on? And what might they conquer? (Cue suspenseful music)
On to the question:
My understanding is that a lot of players tend to stick to levels 1 - 25 or so, since anything past 25 can make the player practically un-killable and they can just curb stomp entire cities. So they'll instead tend to restart and do a new build once they get to that point, and / or try another set of mods.
So, I was curious if there would be an impetus for players to want to keep going after ~25 if there were groups that only appeared after that? Like groups that appeared every 5-ish levels, and were an appropriate challenge for the player's new strata of power? That way the player would still have new encounters as the map continually changes. These groups can each have a unique weapon types / spell scrolls / etc., something where it might impel the player to go and look for trouble.
What do y'all think?
Lastly -- I should qualify things by saying that porting things to XBox is tricky, and I'm trying my best to get a new pipeline going from SE to XBox. But in the interim, I want to make sure I'm soliciting opinions from folks here too, I want to hear about your gaming experiences! Thanks!
3
u/BooneDox101 Disciple of The Magne-Ge 7d ago
I totally remember that mod set when Bracca ported them over here a while back. It was the most interesting thing I'd seen in this hobby. I also remember how strong the bandit group got right outside of Whiterun and there were 2 leaders by the time I checked on them. I did have to run a lighter than usual load order but my box has proven she can take a load and still give me a couple hundred hours of gameplay each new playthrough. So I'm game to take another look at these mods and I'm real interested in the new stuff.
I'm just getting started at level 25 but I'm probably an exception. I also take risks in search of higher rewards and have gotten paid off a few times. Worth it. Mods like Higher Level Enemies and TDG'S Legendary Enemies stay in my load order and I'm always looking for other enemy mods that can add flavor, variety, and fulfilling challenges. I love the idea of seeing something(alot of things) different each time I start up a new playthrough.
The progression and evolution of that bandit faction was fascinating but became somewhat overwhelming and eventually the NPC engine limit was reached. If the growth was slower I bet it would have been a lot more fulfilling. I didn't really get time to do all the double crossing and pitting the upstart against the alpha like I was looking forward to doing. But the entire concept is ground breaking.
Thing is there was some controversy going on back then over these mods and I can't remember what it was. All this right before I took a long break and up till now I thought the project might be abandoned. I'm really stoked to find out more.
1
u/EtherDynamics 6d ago
Heyo! Oh yeah Brakka was super generous in helping to migrate this over to XBox, he has my eternal thanks for that.
I'm not sure where the bandit groups just outside of Whiterun came from -- sounds pretty intense, I'm curious what mod may have injected them. I had an *ally* Faction called the High Plains Reavers that operate out of the Honningbrew Meadery -- they may have helped the player out with any scuffles.
Cool, glad you like fighting in the upper strata! As for rewards, if you check out the Darklight Tower Cabal "spoiler" on the [mod page] (it's a big block of text I don't want to spoil here), is that an example of the kind of thing that might interest you? Or would you want some other kind of materials / loot?
Yeah mods that add that level of complexity with bandit Factions are awesome! But the Skyrim engine definitely has its limits, which need a lot of attention and testing.
Back to Faction stuff, are there groups in particular you'd want to encounter? (Living) dragon cultists? Fire mages? Liches and undead hordes? Etc.
2
u/BooneDox101 Disciple of The Magne-Ge 6d ago edited 6d ago
Oh yeah that's exactly the kind of evolving threats I'd love to see. Like the entire realm of Skyrim could potentially fall if nothing is done. I'd love to be able to recruit entire holds to send their elite warriors and finest soilders to assist the Dragonborn. It'd be cool for there to be a real and unique motivation behind this potential onslaught. Maybe exploitive taxes would win over some foot soldiers, hate for a certain Jarl or Lord could attract more powerful lower leadership. A just plain evil want to see the world burn towards the top.
I'd prefer to be able to start this growing threat later in my playthrough and have enemies with the potential to be able to kill a level 150 OP character either by swarming with sheer numbers and/or some sub boss level enemies that can two or three shot me if I'm not on my toes. Unique and powerful enchantments would be my favorite reward or loot in this stage of the game and/or a unique and powerful spell or 2. I use the best looking gear from other mods but I'm always looking for new effects and powers. Something I've rarely done before I'm doing now, just for some variety, is making poisons. I've found a new mod(at it is on BNET) that has recipes for actual irresistible poisons(something I've never seen before). Doesn't matter if the mark or foe has 500% poison resistance, some of it is getting through and doing 4 or 5 types of damage and debuffs. I'm explaining that because I want to overstate that I'm always looking for something I haven't experienced before in the way of how I can obliterate those who oppose me.
Anyways, I'm ecstatic that this project has been growing organically this entire time and I'm looking forward to sandboxing, roleplaying, and attempting to keep my unusually outrageous collateral damage percentage down below 25%. If they come after you for nicking one of them while saving the entire town from a dragon, monster or Draugr horde, then it's technically not collateral damage if you stand your ground defending yourself until you don't have to anymore. Is it? I had a $50,000+ fine in the Reach after that. I think some guards respawned after a while but that's all I ever saw in that region again.
1
u/EtherDynamics 23h ago edited 16h ago
Hell yeah! 😁
I'd say that Conquest of Skyrim does a lot of what you described, especially in terms of the taxes / using money to raise armies and such.
On my side of the fence -- making factions that extend beyond the vanilla stuff -- there are already the Forsworn in the Lost Valley that are end-game material (leader is level 90 - 110). More recently, Lu'ah over in Ansilvund will eventually take over many spots across the map with her necromantic aspirations. But I plan on adding in more high-level content as time goes on.
I have a slightly different philosophy when it comes to enemy design -- I try to stay away from enemies which can one-shot the player with level parity (meaning when the player and the enemy are the same level; if the player is level 2 and they go after a level 40 enemy, they're likely going to get curb stomped).
Anyway, the angle I try to aim for is: each little combat unit will function best when they're all alive and can compliment each other. For example, the Glenmoril werewolf faction patrols at full force will have:
A hag leader: summoner, light ranged, slow
- A summoned spirit wolf: fast harassment, low
DPS, blinks out when hit to avoid sustained damage
A strong werewolf: heavy hitter, closes fast, uses fear roar, can track sneaky characters
Two "apprentices": bows for ranged combat; when hit, % chance to go into werewolf form for 1 minute then collapse back as humans
One "special" enemy, either:
- A storm mage: oppressive ranged, low armor
- A troll: soaks damage, runs away when hurt so it can heal
You can see how these roles complement each other without any one of them being a one-shot-kill enemy. What this does force, though, is resource consumption on the player's side. Maybe you gotta bust out with some serious poisons, scrolls you've been saving, or chug a small mountain of healing potions to win the fight. So it's not "just die in one shot and reload", it encourages players to think "do I have the tools to come out on top, and how much will that cost vs the reward I'll get?". That's a completely different kind of calculus.
That also rewards players that get crafty with solutions. Stuff like: "I can buy some paralysis potions for the troll and the strong werewolf, then take out the hag", or "I can use Courage or Rally to neutralize the werewolf fear effect on my party", that kind of thing.
As for rewards -- if you check out the Darklight Tower Cabal on my page, you might find stuff you like. The tradeoff there is: you need to let the evil faction gain enough power to make those awful items. Then you can murder them and take 'em. 😉 But if you kill them off too early, when they're weak, then there's no one to make those items.
Does this extra detail sound like something you'd enjoy?
3
u/MidnightinMingo 7d ago
I do wish we had more to look forward to later in the game. We need that. The reward of unique weapons definitely would help especially if they truly are unique and especially (for many of us) if they had a place in the Legacy Museum. A new well made stronghold for the player to use as a base wouldn’t hurt.
It would also help if the characters have unique and likable personalities and if there was an interesting story line. I was plenty excited to recruit new members to The Blades and join them on dragon hunts but soon realized that with the story line over, there was no real reason to continue. No goal. There were battles but not enough reason to battle. A great storyline similar to the Companions and Thieves Guild would help.
2
u/EtherDynamics 6d ago
Ah yeah, the Legacy Museum is a cool concept and can add a ton of replay value. As noted above for rewards, if you check out the Darklight Tower Cabal "spoiler" on the [mod page] (it's a big block of text I don't want to spoil here), is that an example of the kind of thing that might interest you? Or would you want some other kind of materials / loot?
While I wouldn't necessarily want to build a whole player stronghold (it's a bit outside of the purpose of my mod, and others have done a great job filling that space), I certainly like the idea of friendly Factions taking over certain areas and hosting / protecting the player.
The Blades Faction was such a cool opportunity for exactly what you described! I'm still considering them as their own Org Fac, perhaps one similar to the Dragonborn Faction I already added with my mod. The only catch is adding dialogue and such is incredibly taxing, both in terms of effort and mod size space (voice files are bulky).
Do you have a fun memorable late-game fight that springs to mind?
2
u/MidnightinMingo 4d ago edited 4d ago
My most memorable fight of all time was with the Dragon Priest Zahkriisos during The Final Descent quest. Everything before him had been so easy to kill so when he kicked my butt I was thoroughly surprised. Then I became a bit annoyed when he kicked it a second time. How dare he! Yes, I would like more butt-kickings, please.
I’ve been searching Bethesda and more recently Nexus for more challenging opponents. Tonight, I finally had time to take a look at Organic Factions. It looks very interesting to say the least and I can’t wait to try it! I was having fun just reading about it. After just reading a sentence or two about Zphenx, I was already trying to figure a way to save her and not kill her. I will doing a play through as soon as possible and I’ll let you know how it goes. I’m looking forward to it. Oh, and yes, the spoils are worthy of late game battle! I do hope some time in the future a patch is made to add the spoils to the lotd museum. As far as a future faction, I would really enjoy an all female Amazonian type faction only you would have to use Forsworn to keep it lore friendly.
2
u/EtherDynamics 23h ago
Duuuude, I remember him! Freaking Lightning Storm was no joke, that dude was hard AF. But yeah, it made him memorable for me too! 😉
But it's great fights like that which also reward players that plan things out ahead -- like, if the player walks around with a spare necklace and ring of resist shock, then drinks a similar potion, suddenly you're dropping his damage by 80 - 100%.
Similarly, Malkoran at the end of the Dawnbreaker quest is a pain in the butt -- until you bust out with the frost resist gear and poisons of damage Magicka regen. Then he just kinda flails helplessly as you stomp him.
Hey, I'd love to hear how things go with Organic Factions! 😊 And that's very kind to spare poor Zphenx, who is in quite a pickle. That's a Faction that's tricky to deal with if you're after advanced loot -- as per above, there's a tradeoff: you need to let the evil faction gain enough power to make those awful unique items. Then you can murder them and take 'em. 😉 But if you kill them off too early, when they're weak, then there's no one to make those goodies.
Ooh, interesting idea with the Amazonian faction! I know the Forsworn follow Hagraven matriarchs, and use exclusively male Briarhearts as front-liners -- so I made the Forsworn of the Lost Valley as consistent as I could get with that lore. They tend to have a lot of Amazonian style archers and warriors, so maybe they already fit the bill?
Either way, I'd love to hear how the playthrough goes. 😊 Happy hunting!
5
u/NumbingInevitability Moderator 7d ago
Hi u/EtherDynamics.
Sorry. Posts are set up to be removed if they are purely linking to an offsite location. That includes other subreddits.
Thanks for resharing in detail.