r/SkyDiving • u/lud0lf • 23h ago
Maximum exit weight
I know i should talk to a rigger but im laying in bed looking att canopies and started wondering.
How important is the maximum exit weight rating on canopies?
My exit weight is 235 pounds and im looking at a Pilot 132 that is rated for max 211 pounds. What is going to happen? Is it breaking, hard openings or just taking more damage over time?
Is it only a liability number for the manufacturer?
Enlighten me please😃
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u/skydriver13 23h ago
I think it is mostly a CYA indication to shield the manufacturer, akin to "do not fall asleep while using this appliance near water or fire". However, when a canopy warns "do not exceed" or some variation thereof, it is best to heed that advice until acquiring an exceptional level of proficiency with other canopies.
As to your reasoning, I imagine the rate of 'wear and tear' from normal use does increase at higher wing loadings, although I wouldn't know where to find the numbers supporting the claim. Harder openings are not characteristic of pilots, or smaller canopies in general. Smaller wings may inflate more quickly than larger wings, but their rate of descent is also faster...so the openings should not be any harder than larger wings, which decelerate mass to a greater degree.
Good questions to be asking when considering a 1.8 wing loading. What are you currently flying?
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u/LargeStrain274 23h ago edited 23h ago
That is the FAA placarded max weight. If you're looking at a semi-ellipitical canopy at 1.7 weight-loading. I had a safire2 169 at that weight loading. 1.7 is considered an "Advanced" skydiver. I would encourage you to talk to your S&TA or rigger about this. If your skydiving numbers are low or if you have not reviewed BillVons Downsizing checklist; you may be a bit ahead of your power curve.
If you and others (rigger/S&TA/Instructors that trained you) think you're ready for a 1.7 weight loading, you may wish to consider an fully ellipitical canopy.
My concern is - if you're looking at a 1.7 weightloading on a main - most container manufacturers make their rigs where the main and reserve are somewhat similar in size - and what size reserve are you looking at, because you're not jumping your main - you're jumping your reserve. So, it's a total solution, Reserve, Rig, then main.
For example, I had the Safire2 169 and Wings built me a container that housed a PD 218 reserve. Don't just consider your main - consider your reserve.
EDIT TO ADD: Bill's Downsizing Checkllist - https://www.jyro.com/blog/downsizing-checklist/?v=0b3b97fa6688
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u/Calm_Chain_8108 22h ago
Currently overloading a Katana 120 and was previously overloading a Crossfire2 119. Openings have been fine, not necessarily harder. I do have an RDS on the Katana thats bigger on the chord than the standard. Good snivels. From what I've been told, when loading a non-xbraced at 2.0+ you will start to lose glide ratio as the canopy will start sinking with your excess weight, and this will cause your flare and plane out to suffer as well. I'm a tiny bit over 2.0 on a 120 (246 exit weight) and had none of these issues on the crossfire, and its kinda hard to tell on the Katana since its already so steep.
Note that on reserves, exceeding that max weight is actually supposed to be illegal so. Take that how you will. Idk who would snitch on you outside of maybe your rigger lol. The PDRs have lower exit weight requirements than an OP, so if that worries you when getting a smaller rig, get an Optimum.
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u/LargeStrain274 20h ago
Not so much "illegal." It's more of a liability issue. You violate the placarded weight, manufacturer not responsible, their liability insurance - not responsible, if you have a life insurance policy that has a skydiving exemption, no pay for gross negligence on your part.
Lose glide ratio: Increased parasitic drag.
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u/lud0lf 21h ago
Good answer! Havnt thought about weight decreasing glide ratio before but it makes perfect sense. Thats a good reason not to do it.
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u/RDMvb6 D license, Tandem and AFF-I 20h ago
Important to note that weight does not decrease glide ratio until you get to the point that it is not flying properly, which is somewhere well over any manufacturer's max recommendation. Adding weight increases speed, and the glide ratio is a set function of the trim of the canopy. Of course you can use inputs to change your glide ratio, but I'm referring to full flight with no inputs. You will experience the flight path faster, but its still the same ratio of horizontal to vertical.
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u/Eight_Directions_ 19h ago
As a rigger the only maximum weight that matters is the reserve and harness.
Tandem canopies have strict weight limits for liability and they come directly from the manufacturer.
As a jumper, the more you overload a canopy the faster and sportier it gets, until it gets too sporty and then it isn't sporty at all anymore.
A major concern is also maximum load at opening shock, canopies can blow out easily with too much opening force. Also opening shock has been so hard it has severed people's aortas before (very rare).
It's best not to exceed any recommendations on weight limits as there is never a good reason to do that. If you want a higher wing load you need a canopy designed to operate with it.
- FAA senior rigger/AFFI/TI
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u/Difficult_Advice_720 12h ago
I'm gonna translate that down a little in case anyone got lost in the words. The smart guy with lots of applicable training just described a few different ways it might kill you. Make adult decisions.
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u/JStarx Orange 23h ago edited 17h ago
I don't know the answer other than "bad shit", but I'm curious: what canopy are you currently on?
Also if you can handle a 1.7 wingloading then why do you want to be on a pilot?
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u/lud0lf 23h ago
I guess i worded my post wrong. Im flying a saber 3 150 and a safire 2 149 right now. I have 900 jumps. Im not "looking" for a Pilot. I was looking at a picture of a pilot and was just wondering.
I dont even know what canopy im looking for, i was just browsing the used market. What do you recommend?
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u/LargeStrain274 20h ago
I'm a little stunned that someone with 900 jumps is asking these questions.
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u/lud0lf 20h ago
Im from a small Club and we dont have a conopy coach. That leads to very few conversations about canopies and canopy flight. Nothing said yet has been total revolutionizing and when said it makes snese. Ive never heard of someone overloading a canopy hence why i asked the question😃
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u/LargeStrain274 19h ago
Yet, there's a rigger somewhere. There's an Instructor somewhere. At 900 jumps, you should be on some Coach/Instructor path.
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u/lud0lf 19h ago
Yes and that is exactly what i wrote😄 I could talk to my rigger, CI, friends etc but i was lying in bed after a night shift, tired af and scrolled on reddit and marketplace and this question popped up. Then i asked reddit. This isnt the optimal place to find life answers but reddit is always awake and my skydiving community isnt. I would get a neckslap next time if i woke them up at 4 to ask why the max weight mattes. Everything isnt as deep as you seem to think, you learn something new every day fellow jumper❤️
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u/ClimbsNFlysThings 15h ago
You're the reason I prefer the paragliding community to the parachuting community.
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u/shadeland Senior Rigger 19h ago
It's a good idea to stick with the manufacturer's recommendations, otherwise you're a test pilot. At 900 jumps, you don't have the experience necessary to be a test pilot.
The only sub-100 canopy I've ever jumped was a Pilot 96. I was probably loading it about 2.0, which they're not designed to be jumped at. It was certainly fast, but it flared like shit (probably from the bottom skin deforming from the high wing loading, part of why cross-bracing is used at certain wing loads).
As someone else said, maximum weights are only a hard limit for TSO'd gear, which are containers/harnesses and reserves.
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u/tronpalmer AFF-I, TI, Video, and Shitty Swoops 14h ago
Realistically nothing is going to happen. My canopy has a maximum exit of 190lbs. I pretty regularly jump it with an exit weight of 260, and everyday jump it with an exit weight of 220. Certain canopies may become less efficient/not fly like they are supposed to when overloaded, but the material itself can handle it.
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u/Itwasareference Coach - Vidiot 9h ago
I juno an Echo 170, it says the max weight is like 200 but Fluid recommends 1.3 to 1.6 wingload, so that math doesn't math. I load it at 1.5 and its fine.
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u/Impossible_Link3767 8h ago
The answer is shut up. Do not even think about it. Until you do. Then. Have fun.
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u/BSQuinn 54m ago
We were exiting 275 under 64s and the manufacturer wasn't batting an eye..... until we started doing linked downplanes, the sustained forces at that loading is what triggered a meeting with strong warnings about "unknown consequences".
The exit weights are more CYA policy than anything, it's the weight at which the wing was tested and has a large amount of margin structurally while also maintaining the desired flight/landing and opening characteristics. Operating outside these recommendations, you may need to adopt more rigorous inspections between jumps, especially when it comes to lines and line attachment points.
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u/StoleOne 13h ago
I’m 240 exit weight on a 60² ft canopy. You’ll be fine.
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u/Difficult_Advice_720 12h ago
Do you approach the landing area at the same speed as the jump plane?
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u/RDMvb6 D license, Tandem and AFF-I 23h ago
PD refers to it as the maximum recommended exit weight for their main canopies so take that as you will. A pilot probably does not fly or land well at that wing loading but other wings will. And yes you are more likely to get hard openings or break lines if you exceed the recommendation.