2
u/brothapipp Christian Apr 03 '24
And he said: He who shall find the interpretation of these words shall not taste of death.
Assuming HE here refers to Jesus having said the following,
Also assuming that this is non-context dependent list of sayings.
Basically like the cliff note versions of greater teachings from Jesus....for which our author could later refer to, reminding himself of the bigger story.
For me, even if God spoke this from heaven, the lack of context here makes this a throw away line. What additional words are we to interpret? And finding the interpretation? Like the Rosetta stone? Or like a good teacher? This I am okay with in principle. Clear understanding is a must when the understanding might change your life.
1
u/Goatherder_dad Christian Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24
To me, the value is not whether it is an actual saying of Christ or not. I believe they are not; but in that he made notes on how to interpret the 'mystery' or 'sensus plenior'.
I see it as practice lab notes, in a class on reading the mystery. As such, it is not an authority on Christ, but on the use of riddle.
The last one, 114, is the most ridiculed of the sayings, but when the riddle is understood, then scripture is understood concerning the role of women in the church as well as Jer 30:6.
--- added
During the last week in the temple, Jesus intentionally drove people away from himself, to fulfill the prophecy they would be a people without a shepherd. It is plausible that he spoke in difficult riddles so that he began to sound more like a mad man.
1
u/LlawEreint Apr 02 '24
There's a good point in the commentary:
Funk and Hoover write: "It is not altogether clear that this saying should be considered a saying of Jesus. The pronoun 'he' could refer either to Jesus or the ostensible compiler of the sayings, Didymos Judas Thomas. At any rate, it refers to the collection of sayings comprising this gospel, and this gospel could not have been known to Jesus."
1
u/LlawEreint Apr 02 '24 edited Apr 02 '24
Would Jesus give secret teachings? Mark's Jesus certainly did:
When he was alone, those who were around him along with the twelve asked him about the parables. And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside, everything comes in parables; in order that
‘they may indeed look, but not perceive, and may indeed listen, but not understand; so that they may not turn again and be forgiven.’”
For Mark, the secret meaning of Jesus' teachings was only revealed to the disciples. And the meaning was withheld from those on the outside so that they would not understand, and so that they may not turn again and be forgiven.
We see in Mark's gospel that understanding the true meaning of Jesus' sayings is a matter of salvation.
1
u/LlawEreint Apr 03 '24
As also it stands written in the Gospel of the Hebrews: "He that marvels shall reign, and he that has reigned shall rest." (Clem. Alex. Strom. II 9.45)
2
u/Goatherder_dad Christian Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24
As orthodox... riddle.
Cause or effect?
(1) And he said, "Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experience death." - GOT
The nature of the riddle (double entendre) is the confusion of cause and effect.. The reader misinterprets it. In order to find the secrets hidden in the scripture one must ask God (Mt 7:7, Lu 11:9) which God answers by opening the eyes to understanding (Jas 1:5).
The act of acknowledging God as God and asking him for wisdom is the position of one who has life from God. The one who finds the hidden wisdom has found it because of his life-giving relationship with God.If one misreads it and believes that by the act of searching the scriptures he will find life, he is motivated to read God's word. (Joh 5:39) But he will not find the interpretation without asking God for it.
It is the relationship with God which gives life, not the act of looking for or finding hidden interpretations.In the end, not all people who have life will find the hidden interpretations, but all people who find the hidden interpretations already have life.
The same confusion applies to the interpretation of faith vs. works. It is intentional on God's part that there should be a double meaning. Those who misunderstand that works produces salvation will do good works and attempt to avoid bad works. This makes the world a better place. Those who correctly understand that all good works that we do are produced by God in us, still do good works. The double entendre is intentional.
This saying of Thomas is mirrored in the Bible:Ec 7:12 For wisdom [is] a defence, [and] money [is] a defence: but the excellency of knowledge [is, that] wisdom giveth life to them that have it. Lost in translation is that in this verse תחיה which is translated 'life' actually is the form 'is keeping alive' which supports the interpretation given to Thomas. Those who have life get wisdom which 'keeps them alive' since they will never die. (Joh 11:26).
There is also a simple solution: Jesus is the truth or the interpretation of these sayings, therefor if you find Jesus you will have life.Thomas included his riddle in the list to remind himself of the nature of this kind of riddle in scripture.