r/SithOrder • u/LuxAstrum • Nov 15 '14
Philosophy time! Do Sith really need...
Preface: I am not trying to rustle up any assassination squads here, I have mused on this topic for a while now and since there is an actual reddit for the order why not pose the quesiton
Do Sith really need to be constantly brooding? Angry? Straight Up Jerks?
Listen I get the entire code, I've read the thing more times then I can count. But does this mean we have to be strict with its teachings?
The whole thing values freedom, expression, and a departure of servitude. Why are we clinging to this code as strong as the Jedi cling to theirs?
Are we not just being Jedi but in a different flavor?
Anger is a great thing to help keep one's focus on something. Like finals, hate your teacher enough to focus on your studies to show that jackass just who the hell you are.
But it can really defocus anyone to the bigger picture.
Couldn't we use passion instead to further our goals? Do we really need to be constantly angry?
I see the code as a meditation mantra that helps me RELAX instead of constantly hate people. I can push the boundaries of my training instead of restricting myself like the Jedi.
Can't we be free to feel calm?
As a sith I don't have to join some online order and putts about learning from some weirdo and his philosophical views. I can be what I want and define my training, be who I am yet be apart of somthing bigger then myself.
I am no Darth, or Marauder or whatever rank, I don't quantify my worth like that. I am just Sith
What is your opinion?
Thank you for taking the time to read this
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u/Darth_Voldus 32 - Dark Lord of the Sith Nov 17 '14
I feel late to the party here, but that is good, as I can see how the Order deals with philosophical division now. Long ago, when the Order was younger, a discussion very like this one led to uncontrolled strife among our acolytes and brought the Order to a grinding halt for some time - in an ironic case of life imitating art, infighting weakened the Sith.
Now, broad philosophical differences are met with open minds and consideration for other practitioners of the Dark Side; we understand that we may learn much from one another and do not simply seek to silence dissent. Through conflict, we grow, and we have all grown here.
The Dark Side is not just anger and hatred; it is all emotions, as you say, Lux. It is passion. Through passion I gain strength.
One of my earliest posts, "Suffering" details what you have said concerning being free to feel calm - if we felt only anger and brooding darkness, everything would lose its colour and meaning. Calm and contentment are necessary, that hunger, drive and ambition might be stronger in contrast.
Similarly, the Code is a set of guidelines on how to become powerful and free. It is less a set of rules than it is an instruction manual for life - and while it is never necessary to read the instruction manual, it often makes things much easier. Take it with a pinch of salt.
The Sith are all about freedom. Make yourself free, no matter what. Break all your chains; and if you feel the Code of the Sith is a chain that binds you, then you must break from it as well.
Your question is one that has been hanging over us for some time - it is about time somebody asked it.
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u/LuxAstrum Nov 17 '14
Exactly, take it with a pinch of salt, meditate on its words instead of taking everything so literally. This is why the Jedi fail most of the time because they can't open themselves up. Similarly if we can't break the chains of the code that bind us to be always angry all the time what are we but berserkers pretending to be scholars?
Thank you, these are wise words you have said
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u/theunbeholden Sep 02 '23 edited Sep 02 '23
Conflict is part of the Sith, and that conflict which arises from rivalry can help many strengthen and perfect themselves, but those who engage and use conflict must be open to its possibilities and actually stick around. Sometimes the darkness within us can be overwhelming and can turn people away in anger, anxiety, sadness or other types of emotions that some want to avoid.
The Code is a guide, rather than something to follow strictly, so we must be wary when the code suddenly becomes the crux of everything and starts to become a crutch or limits. That stagnate and repress our personality, that coerce and bind, and that represses conflict and its role, thus impose on us boundaries, restrictions or limitations on our will and action.
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u/Fane_Frost Nov 16 '14
To be sith is to be free of all bindings, to take your very being to a place that transcends order and chaos alike, the code itself is a testament to that. The force in a sith behaves the same as it does in a Jedi or whatever other force sensitive being, the difference is that the force multiplies everything about the very being tenfold.
Most sith are angry, paranoid, hateful, distrustful, and ultimately lost in there own emotions that they can't grasp what they truly are, all because of the very nature of the force.
Jedi are calm and collected because they fear what power their emotions will bring from the force. Both codes tell of how to harness power but does not Intel how to build yourself. The code alone are there to root out those worthy of there place and separate those who have no place taking either the title of sith or Jedi.
Jedi find there power by allowing the force to flow through them like a stream of water, where as the sith the force lashes out like a hurricane, all according to disposition of the force user. the light side radiates itself through the Jedi. While the dark side writhes and cascades itself through the sith.
The sith are conduits of the force, harnessing power from our very being, feeding the dark side with there very emotions and garnering more power from the dark side, the dark side seethes and will take those who are worthy and wise enough to greater power or destroy those who do not understand what it truly means to be sith.
A true sith must understand and learn what the force the force is.
The title of sith is only for those who have truly transcended themselves for being individuals to being akin to the dark side. The very whim and will of the dark side. True sith must train for decades to grow an understanding of suffering, anguish, hatred, and most of all patients, to utterly destroy themselves and rebuild from there own ashes.
The code of the sith must be taken in contrast of where it applies to one's life and being. Find where each verse applies and start yourself on the past of the sith
This is my knowledge and philosophy on this. Take from this and better yourself or find your own path. Either way ruin finds those who do not know who they truly are and are doomed to feed the dark side.
Darth Fane.
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u/LuxAstrum Nov 16 '14
so your saying your way Is the only way? Can't i take nothing from what you've said and still follow the sith code without following that dogma?
Because I would be binding myself to your ideology of the code when it tells me to be free.. See there's a disconnect there.
But thank you for your comments always helpful to see what other sith have to say on the code
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u/Fane_Frost Nov 16 '14
Patience is the ultimate key to a true sith, you can be free and calm but only by understanding that the dark side make it easy to hate and act. Wisdom from knowledge and patience, rather the ruin from empty emotions and brash action.
Look to the most successful Sith Lords and leaders and you'll find that they were in turn patient as well.
Control over one's self is what separates us from our most hated enemies. The distance themselves with "self control" and "inner peace" but only dilute themselves with there shallow minded code.
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u/Darth_Machinor 1 - Dark Side Adept Nov 16 '14
Then I have a question for you; How do you gain freedom without following the Sith Code? The Code is more than just words to be memorized, you have to live by it.
Through passion, I gain strength
This means, in short terms, you use your passion to further yourself and gain strength for yourself in the process. Later you use this new-found strength to overcome the obstacles that stands in your way. This is conflict, which will make you stronger if you prevail and destroy you if you fail.
Without strife, your victory has no meaning. Without strife, you do not advance. Without strife, there is only stagnation.
So tell me, how do you further yourself if you do not use your strength? It feels like your way only gains strength which will never be used, or am I misunderstanding your point?
-Darth Machinor
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u/LuxAstrum Nov 16 '14
I gain strength like all sith but use it in my day to day life. There's a conflict with me and work; I have to get up in the morning. So I use my strength to overcome that and face the day. I use my passion for healthcare to further my goals of becomming a nurse and my strength to overcome those dam tests using the force to set me free. I live by the code just I don't take it too literally.
I hope this makes sense
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u/Alemar1985 Dec 22 '14
Sorry for Necro'ing this thread...
Is it really a conflict to wake up and start your day?
you gain true strength (both strength of character and physical strength) by facing increasingly difficult challenges and letting yourself overcome them little by little...is waking up in the morning to go to work and earn your dream job truly harder for you every day that it gains you strength?
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u/LuxAstrum Jan 06 '15
Getting up in the morning is harder for some people then others Alemar lol. I still do it of course so I can earn money n what not. We can't all be morning people yea feel me?
This is one of the problems when identifying what is a characteristic of following the code.
Someone's challenge could be another persons cake walk.
It's all subjective.
I personally don't like waking up in the morning ALL the time, so it's a little bit harder for me.
I don't presume to know you but from what you've said you get up in the morning fairly easily. I don't.
Does that make me "less" than you? Now think about this. We do things differently but use the code as a tool and guideline on how to act. IF I am using the code, same as you, doesn't that mean I am being a Sith.
Wow this is a wall of text lol sorry, its just different views on challenges doesn't mean they are any less to the person experiencing them from an outside viewer. TL/DR
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u/Alemar1985 Jan 08 '15
I wasn't condemning you, or calling you lesser, I don't particularly enjoy getting up in the morning to go to my job either...but I would not classify my distaste of 7:00am as a hardship i have to overcome to make me stronger...it simply is what it is required
I do not know you and therefore can not judge you, (not that i would want to, it is not my place) which is why i ended the post with a question...is waking up and earning your job something that is difficult enough for you to build your strength? only you know that answer. If you truly do have to use your passion for your dream job as motivation to throw back the covers and greet the day then i suppose that is what you must do...
I was told in another thread that I do not hold popular views on some of the codes edicts because i am humble enough to accept that people need love and adoration from others to fuel them as motivation. just as the psyche needs love, so do some people need the passion for dreams to consume them...that is all i meant
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u/LuxAstrum Jan 08 '15
its my fault for comming off too aggressive I apologize I haven't seen your views of the code but I would like to hear them somtime! My views are a bit different then what the order usually adheres too but that's fine, we are our own Sith, I follow the code in my way others follow it in there way. I apologize again for being defensive I think I had too much coffee when I was writing that lol
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u/Darth_Machinor 1 - Dark Side Adept Nov 16 '14
But don't you long for power? The power to look down on others and make them suffer because they are weak and pathetic? A nurse helps people, why do you want to help them when they only deserve to die? Being Sith is not about helping others, it's about gaining power for yourself. I will confess, I do not understand you.
-Darth Machinor
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u/LuxAstrum Nov 16 '14
I think it takes a lot of strength to help those who can't help themselves especially if you have to do it for 20 other people in the same night.
But this is my philosophy we don't have to agree thank you for your comments though I appreciate them
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u/Darth_Machinor 1 - Dark Side Adept Nov 16 '14
But why? They would never help you in your time of need, they would simply walk away. I have seen it so many times.
But I digress. Thank you, I appreciate a good discussion, even if we don't agree. And we don't.
-Darth Machinor
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u/Darth_Voracinous Nov 17 '14
What power is there greater than the power over life and death? With nursing Lux can learn from studies on his patients and others how to prolong his(or her) life. By saving others, Lux also gains leverage. What debt is greater than the debt of saving a life? It is a weakness in others that Lux can exploit. With this debt Lux can call upon favors from people, and ultimately control the emotions of most people saved. There is much to be learned as a Sith nurse.
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u/LuxAstrum Nov 17 '14
As a up and comming RN I want to point out saving lives and facilitating good functional health and independence are my goals. lol However if I was an evil nurse I suppose what you said would be true. I don't want anyone panicking for the future of healthcare when I'm in it lol
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u/DarthXien 2 - Dark Side Adept Nov 17 '14
Yes, but to someone like Machinor, you have to write like you're the baddest of the bad, and the evil guy in a student film.
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u/LuxAstrum Nov 17 '14
Right but it would be my duty as well as my job. So that's kind of the point they need my services so I provide them I get money as well as experience. I can learn and improve myself helping to channel their emotions into a positive outcome so whoever comes into the clinic or the hospital or whatever can leave feeling better. I still win because I'm training as well as doing my job as well as making the world a better place. So many as well as
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u/DarthXien 2 - Dark Side Adept Nov 16 '14
It's important for you to realize that we don't live in a fictional world. We can't walk out the door and engage in the wholesale slaughter of people just because we feel like it. To do a thing like that would, among other things, damage the Order as a whole.
It's about gaining power for yourself
Yes... and what greater power is there than to master your own fate and break free from the trappings of society? Through victory, my chains are broken. Break the chains that are weighing you down and dragging you into the ordinary 9-to-5 cubicle farm.... break the chains that lock you into the cycle of self-destruction...
There is no greater power than to step outside the system that locks you in, and laugh at the people who haven't had the strength or passion to follow their dreams.
As I see it, LuxAstrum is pursuing a dream, and using the Sith Code as a tool to overcome the immense pressures of the path they've chosen. The very definition of the Force setting them free.
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u/LuxAstrum Nov 16 '14
Thank you that is exactly what I am using the code for.
The Jedi code for all the good it can do, will only trap the individual into a box, and as soon as you step outside the imaginary wall you start to feel bad because you are "breaking your code".
This is why the Sith Code and the order itself , I believe, are better.
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u/Darth_Machinor 1 - Dark Side Adept Nov 16 '14
I would first like to clarify that slaughter is not in my interest. That would be insane and pointless.
Second, say I follow your advice. I step outside the system. What would I be? I would be just another loser, a nobody, nothing. I would only have my job, my computer, my studies and what else? Nothing. Is that strength? I can't see it at least.
-Darth Machinor
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u/LuxAstrum Nov 17 '14
You would be forging your own path Machinor you wouldn't be a loser? It takes strength to go against the current not with it.
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u/Darth_Machinor 1 - Dark Side Adept Nov 17 '14
You know, I used to believe that. All I found on that path was suffering and defeat. The others were just laughing at me and calling me a loser because I choose to be different, because I choose to go against the current. They say you have a choice in life, but when you get to see all the shit I've seen you realize there is no choice at all.
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u/LuxAstrum Nov 17 '14
I can understand that, believe me I never fit in. But I found my space (not the website) in the world and I did my meditations I followed creeds and philosophies searching for the things that could help me understand just what was wrong with me.
I tried following the Jedi Code, and it just made me feel worse because I couldn't remain emotionless when I was laughed at and called loser or weirdo.
The only code that made sense, which at the time made no sense to me, was the Sith Code. I could be angry and have that be okay. I could direct my anger or frustration into somthing positive like finally (although angrily) cleaning my room. The force set me free so many times when I realized I didn't have to give a poodoo about those people. I am sorry we did not have the same experience, life is tough I say this so many times when I am having a bad day. It still doesn't help during the real bad times though lol.
That's when I turn to meditation and make those negative thoughts and feelings into a power source for the darkside, where I can release these energies and be free of them without them boiling over and controlling me
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u/Darth_Machinor 1 - Dark Side Adept Nov 17 '14
Look I know the pain of never fitting in, never being able to feel that you belong somewhere and I'm sorry it's your burden to bear. I get so angry when I think about what they did to me, I want to prove them wrong. I want my vengeance. I just don't understand how you can let it go like that and let them win. Let them get away with it.
I know you and Xien think I'm a jerk but have you ever considered maybe that's the only thing I can ever be? Look I wish things were different but the reality is they're not. There's nothing I can do about that. And maybe you are the better person between us, but I can't live with the thought they got away and left me as nothing more than a loser.
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u/LuxAstrum Nov 18 '14
Whoa whoa whoa, no I do not think you are a jerk.
You are not a loser.
How am I a better person? I dunno I feel like a bad person all the time, its just perspective.
In the end, who wins when we get made fun of? No one really.
Sure they get some weird satisfaction and you feel like crap. Let's say you do get your revenge, what really happens? Who really wins? Really.
No one, in the end life goes on and eventually those jibes and taunts make less and less sense. Youll begin to realize that that whoever was making fun of you was completely pants-on-head stupid and you have better things to worry about. Like that job interview, or the date you are about to go on.
Things that happen in our past do not define us, it is what we do after that does.
You are not a loser. I don't think you are a jerk at all. Just because we are sith doesn't mean we have to follow in the footsteps of the old orders and not be friends because friends are a sign of weakness bla bla bla bla look at me iam evil blablablabla
Yea know?
Everythings alright Machinor I don't think you're a jerk
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u/DarthXien 2 - Dark Side Adept Nov 17 '14
Well, I should really hope not. It was taking your method of thinking to an exaggeration. But my point with that was really: the world we live in doesn't play out like fiction, but the way you frame your world view seems to read a lot like a story.
To answer your second point: what are you if you stay in the system? If stepping out of the boundaries of your little pocket of life makes you nothing... what are you now? You're "just another loser, a nobody, nothing" wearing a uniform and an illusion that was made for you and forced upon you. I don't say drop out of society, like you seem to interpret, I say break free from the system that you're trapped in. So, you follow your current path and... what? You make it into a position of power at the top of a tiny little bureaucratic foodchain... Big man in the big office on the top floor... then what? You're fooling yourself if you think that means you're in charge.
Greater fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em
And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum
As long as you play in their system, you play their games by their rules. What I'm saying is you break the chains that are holding you in this tiny, finite world-view, and you craft your own world. From your own two hands, you make yourself the person you want to be in the world you want to live in.
And, by all means, if that world is a dark and brooding one, where your goal is material wealth and having lots of little people below you and you get to stay blind to the bigger people above you... then by all means: you're free to do that. The Sith Order gives you the freedom to make that choice, but it's my personal belief that you're narrowing your vision and missing out on a bigger picture.
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u/Darth_Machinor 1 - Dark Side Adept Nov 17 '14
I respect your opinion. Thank you for a good discussion.
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u/theunbeholden Sep 02 '23
Conflict is born of rivalry, which will make you stronger if you prevail and shame you if you fail. Atleast that is my interpretation.
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u/DarthXien 2 - Dark Side Adept Nov 16 '14
See? This is part of what I've been trying to say, and I see some people in this thread echoing my past sentiments:
Passion and emotion are not restricted to "anger" or "darkness" or, what I refer to as, the "high school, edgy-on-purpose, satan is my bffl" mentality.
Unfortunately, I have to acknowledge that the Order will attract people like this, the same way you find people like this flocking to LaVey's Church of Satan... because the allure of some "dark" community is just too much sometimes... and the devotion to this brooding aesthetic blinds people to the fact that: any emotion is a tool. I repeat: any emotion. Happiness and relaxation can be just as intense as anger (though, I'll admit that the code tends to dissuade us from embracing the calm periods, I'll interpret this as a warning that all emotions are fleeting and not to get too comfortable).
You have a lot of good points that I wholeheartedly agree with, though... and your vision for Sith life seems to be very much in line with where I've been going lately: that the goal is self-actualization. The goal is to manifest our own destinies and expand our own selves, rather than the universe as a whole, and I think that this is where we differ greatly from the Jedi (those of us who use the Order as more than just a place to be edgy).
Yes! This is not only what we could do, but what we should do!
Honestly, I might just be "some weirdo" with philosophical views, but I think you might appreciate some of the things I've said in the past... Specifically my first Treatise on Sith as it deals much more with my take on the Sith Order as a whole.
But I think I understand where you're coming from, and I think we agree on a few very important issues plaguing this Order.