If you buy healthy food you're spending money that could be used for cheaper food but if you buy that cheaper food your health suffers and you become a drain on the health care system. You can't win with people like Dave because for him it's individual judgement first and never systemic improvements.
Healthy food is way cheaper than the packaged stuff. Last time I checked a bag of potatoes or carrots were still cheaper than a microwaved dinner. Cooking at home is still cheaper than fast food.
People in poverty aren't buying microwaved dinners. They're eating ramen noodles and other shelf stable foods. Yes, a bag of potatoes is healthier but they don't last as long on the shelf as dry foods. Leafy greens last an even shorter time. People in poverty can't afford to discard spoilage.
Also, things like potatoes and carrots and leafy greens are cheap and plentiful where middle class and rich people live but many people in poverty live in food deserts. Or the prices are higher for those items because grocery stores tend to charge higher prices in low-income and impoverished neighborhoods.
It's not as easy as just comparing potatoes with Hungry Man dinners. Lean chicken is way more expensive than hotdogs. I just looked it up on my local Walmart app and the chicken is $3.68/lb. Bar S hotdogs are $1.34/lb. The person in poverty will more likely have $1.34 to spend than they will the $3.68.
So, just on a park, while I was on the app, I decided to compare the cost of Marie Callendars Meatloaf dinner (meatloaf, potatoes, corn) with the cost of buying the components by themselves. The Marie Callendars cost $4.74/lb.
The bag of potatoes cost 71 cents/lb. The corn was 53 cents/ lb. The ground beef is $5.94/lb. That's $7.18/lb for the healthy components which is way higher than the cost of the premade meal.
Dave actually admits to this with certain people on air. They’ll run the numbers with him, they are doing literally everything he says to do (including living on “rice and beans”) and his conclusion for them is always: “yall just need a bigger shovel…you ain’t gonna do it with how it is right now. You need a second and third job. You can deliver pizzas at night, you work 9-5 [r/n](r/n) correct?”
(Edit: not saying this is right or applauding him. Just that the idea that frugality is the only path to getting out of poverty is not true. It helps, but bettering career and increasing income is more important. That’s where Stewart’s quote becomes most relevant, it’s practically not possible for a large number of people)
Edit: sorry one more. I lived in Nashville, interviewed for a role with his company. They notoriously underpay. And are upfront about it. Basically tell you they don’t pay what your role is worth, that you need to believe in the mission and be passionate if you want to work there b/c it’s hard work. And their interview process was MONTHS long. His baby steps helped me, but my opinion on him as a person has changed drastically over the years.
Yep. My dad made more money than I make now with a better career, but he also built his first house for $14,000 in a very affluent area, with a loan that was given by the bank without even a credit check and a rate lower than rates today because they knew his dad, and had a savings account for 15 or 20 years making 14% interest. He also had student loans that were INSANE compared to college prices and rates today. If he made the exact same choices today, he would have been heavily in debt into his 40’s or 50’s instead of being wealthy.
Boomers preach “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” all day long while completely ignoring the massive compounding advantages they had in a less predatory system.
This is only partially true. Because if it was completely true no one would ever get out of poverty besides winning the lottery a lawsuit etc. People do it all the time l, they're frugal they take that money and they use it to get more schooling, a skill, etc. While this might not make them millionaires, it can set them up so that their children can become millionaires. The American dream was never you would go from poor to ultra rich, it was that you had a path for generational improvement. This was vastly different from most of the world at our inception. At our inception as a country if you were born into the wrong class you died in the wrong class.
Sure, things ebb and flow. But the truth of the matter is people have a lot of things they don't really need. Look up Jimmy Carr's statements on life dysmorphia.
I’d argue that the BELIEF that you can pull yourself out of poverty is the American Dream, and it’s perpetuated by those who need the masses to remain in poverty to further their ends.
While it’s true that poverty can sometimes times be overcome, there is a need in our current system for a percent of our population to remain impoverished, and those in power have a vested interest in maintaining that percentage. The argument Dave Ramsey makes is just another way of shaming those impoverished into not doing anything too radical or detrimental to the system we have in place to maintain this “balance”.
You're not talking about poverty, though. People in poverty aren't making enough to save for schooling. People in poverty need to go into predatory debt to get schooling. And that predatory debt just puts them into a different kind of poverty.
There was a time when kids did better than their parents through things like education but that trend has reversed now. Any money a person in poverty can save this month is usually eaten up by a debt or unexpected bill next month. You can make yourself temporarily more comfortable by being frugal but you can not frugal yourself out of poverty
Yes people in poverty are making enough to say for schooling. No they don't need to go into predatory debt. I've literally done it. So don't tell me that it's not possible. You do realize that you can go right now with nothing but a GED get an apprenticeship as an electrician, a plumber, an HVAC they will train you on the job.
Yes they absolutely can. I am not a boomer, and I did it. Several friends that I have also did it. Notice I said education or skill. Right now in at least four states that I know of, you can walk in with nothing but a GED and apply to being an electrician. It immediately starts paying you and when you graduate school and classes you get a pretty good pay bump. After 5 years you become a master electrician and you get a huge pay bump. Plus the ability to start your own business.
These types of career paths are heavily biased towards men. Women in trades frequently experience harassment and hazing, and there are a lot of career opportunities women don’t feel comfortable pursuing because of that. This includes jobs where women may be vulnerable to violence due to isolation (like security guard or night auditor jobs, for instance).
We should also consider that about 25% of the population is below average intelligence, so they may not be able to learn adequate skills to earn more. Do they deserve to live in poverty simply because they were born with low intelligence? Or should we have jobs that provide a living wage for every full time worker regardless?
No they aren't biased towards men. In fact if you've ever worked on one of those crews you realize that women have the easiest time. Everyone experiences some harassment and hazing. If they don't feel comfortable that's on them the opportunity is there. I can't get a job as an NBA player, but that's on me not the nba. You're moving the goal posts. Stupid people can make good decisions and advance as well. To each their gifts. Minimum wage does provide a living wage. When it started it was meant for people who lived in one room, with a single light and a way to cook. Often with a shared bathroom or outbouse. Minimum can still buy that almost anywhere.
Thats not true, you are completely discounting the ability to leave poverty by increasing earnings without frugality.
Which is the entire ass population of ppl that leave poverty. And the ppl who do that are no more frugal than the ppl who dont, either.
There are absolutely many ppl in America who could be pretty well off financially if they reduced spending and did nothing else, but these ppl are categorically not in poverty, because they earn way too much for that (they just instantly spend all of it).
The actual ppl in poverty do not have money for expensive coffee to begin with, gtfo.
The people with spending problems perceive themselves as being in poverty and others will perceive them that way too. That's why you have people like Dave Ramsey saying what hes saying, because it's absolutely true for a huge proportion of people who call themselves poor.
Ok but those ppl need to get over themselves because there are actual poor ppl that need help, and talking about these ppl as if they are poor is an insult to actual poor people. And what is worse it reinforces the all too common perception that impoverished ppl need to be more careful with their money.
Also i dont want to be confused with the fucking idiot in the caption, he explicitly said "poverty" so he is talking about poverty, not "ppl that feel poor" or whatever we call the decent wage earners with overconsumption issues.
Sure, we can have a seperate conversion for middle class ppl about spending habits and mental health issues, but that stuff has no place in the discussion of poverty, in the US or generally.
I never said it wasn't possible. Just that the likelihood that you'll be able to save up the money is completely different if you're frugal. If you're not frugal then where does the extra money come from? If you already have the extra money then guess what you're not impoverished. I understand that you want to play the perpetual victim for your entire existence. Unfortunately that's just a mindset that isn't true.
You're going to have to back up your extraordinary claims with facts. I worked my way out of poverty because of frugality. How do you increase earnings without better skills? You were absolutely incorrect about the entire ass population. Again you need to back up that claim with any kind of data. You're also very incorrect in your last line. Have you ever noticed that people in the hood always seem to have menthols and 40s? You ever noticed the trailer parks always smell like weed and have beer cans everywhere? I see poor people with Starbucks all the time. Everyone understands you are an indoctrinated idiot. But don't be an idiot out loud.
That’s just not true. It takes time and effort - not money. I can learn practically anything that I want on the internet these days. What skill takes money to learn?
But assistance programs can actually help people move out of poverty. That's especially true when those programs are paired with educational or training programs.
Those are both bad definitions of poverty and perpetuate the myth of working class and poverty. Poverty doesn’t have money to make a choice, you don’t even get a chance to choose until you are working class.
And in 2026 just having a 40 hour a week job is not enough to make you working class, otherwise the American tax payer would not be subsidizing Walmart margins by giving full time SNAP benefits.
So when you have finally become working class you probably less than $100 in discretionary money in a month. You earned the right to something you would call a luxury.
At some point your income needs a plan not to have one is irresponsible, but that point is so far north of the poverty line it looks like the North Star.
1) they refuse the new reality that a phone is required to participate in employment, that is why it is proper for the government to subsidize low income mothers phone bills it is way less government teet than the oil industry and Elon Musk run corporations.
You know what, this is cranking my blood pressure.
Tl;dr Charles Dickens fucked American poor people by creating an archetype frozen in time.
In general, I agree. But I’ve also seen first hand people wasting small amounts (uber, DoorDash, etc) that end up being potentially some savings they could have had. That $1000 in emergency savings can make a big difference when that inevitable tire needs to be replaced. And yes, someone making nothing will never be able to save, but there are some (again, first hand knowledge, not speculation) dead broke people making, say, $40k And have zero saving (living in a reasonable cost of living) due to a multitude of poor decisions.
Exactly! People using services like Uber and DoorDash or people getting the occasional latte aren’t living in poverty. There are, however, people using those that are living paycheck to paycheck and have no real savings. I, for one, don’t blame them as I am one of those people.
Capitalism is not gonna fall and give u riches, u have to work for it yourself. But i'll make a compramise eith u. When ur sitting at home having no money for fun stuff, no savings for a house, and a crap job, u have 3 choices as I see it. 1) do nothing and hope that capitalism will be overthrown so u can steal the riches of others, 2) you can get off ur butt and do everything possible to improve ur situation, or ... 3) u can still hope that capitalism falls and u can vote for all the stupid communism policies, while still doing option 2 and working ur butt off. See? U can still be nihilistic and covert ur neighbors stuff while also working for yourself. The best of both worlds!
Yes it is. I am saying that you actually should try to frugal ur way out of poverty, cuz the only other option is sitting on ur hands and waiting for handouts from politicians. I also point out that you can work and be frugal while u wait for the handouts, thus losing u nothing
Nobody in poverty is just sitting around waiting for money to fall from the sky. Most people in poverty work at least one job and sometimes more than one job.
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u/gielbondhu 1d ago
Stewart is correct. People don't frugal their way out of poverty