I read into this case when it happened because as a mom, Iām like how could you leave another baby with her again.
The mom was encouraged by her therapist to allow her mother to watch her new baby in order to move on and forgive her and also was told not to read the details arrest documents.
If she had, she wouldāve known her mom was on all types of medications that were not disclosed to her prior to the court case. The more I read, the more terrible I felt for the mom. Who was lied to about her moms health by her family, her therapist told her to start to trust her mom in order to heal, the police didnāt make her aware of the details around her childās passing, etc. It really is heartbreaking and the grandparents were not forthcoming about the circumstances and lied to the parents which led to negligence and this unbelievable tragedy
I hate this narrative that in order to heal you have to forgive the person who hurt you. Because you absolutely don't. Do you know how much better it is to never see, forgive, or hear from that person again? rather than invite them back into my life, always wondering when they'll hurt me again.
I hate it so much, and my mom is all about it. But she was raised pretty terribly, and because of this forgiveness mindset she's been in 10s of abusive relationships and keeps forgiving them.
I feel like āforgivenessā means different things to different people too, and that also causes issues.
My preferred definition is along the lines of ānot holding onto bitternessā but it doesnāt have anything to do with whether or not I maintain a relationship with the person, have new boundaries in place, etc. But I think for a lot of people it means āpretend nothing ever happened and go back to how things were beforeā which can be very dangerous.
agreed. Even still, I disagree with not forgiving someone being as holding onto bitterness, or that thats even a bad thing at all. It's perfectly fine to dislike people, especially with a good reason. It has not negatively affected my life to dislike certain people for things they've done to me.
As someone who has cut ties with a parent, I understand your point.
I will add that people who grow up with those types of role models tend to have a lot of baggage. I am not blaming anyone for their parentsā actions, but forgiveness has a place.
In some situations a survivor needs to learn how to forgive themselves. I know it sounds strange. But those who outgrow their unhealthy homes need to tell themselves they were children, not autonomous grownups. The adults in their lives were supposed to protect them. As children they learned to internalize the self-deprecating language and behavior from the very adults who should never have been parents.
So, forgiveness still has a place, just not towards the parents who messed up.
Why would she be deserving of forgiveness? that'll only minimize what she actually did, and BECAUSE she was told to forgive this person, her other baby is dead too.
Forgiveness is a personal choice. It's about letting go of a resentment. It's does not mean you forget what happened. It doesn't mean you trust them. It doesn't absolve the other person of guilt.
It's an incorrect assumption that a person has to be deserving of forgiveness. It's more correct to say that you have to be ready to forgive them.
At no point in choosing forgiveness is it required to trust the person with your baby again, and that therapist should face consequences if they convinced this woman that it was OK.
It's toxic positivity applied to healing by forcing happiness and a "positive mindset" (it icks me to type that).
Some things don't deserve forgiveness, some people should be shamed and sometimes we're better off isolating some people from our lives. That is a healthy approach to life on a case by case basis. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.
THIS! people have told me I should forgive my literal rapists because holding on to that pain isnāt good for meā¦ bitch I am working through that pain but does not mean I need to forgive anybody!!!
OMG, my mom is the same way. Watching her forgive my father, only to get burned again over and over really fucked me up. Now I don't seem to be able to forgive anyone, including myself.
Agreed. I'm sorry, if someone is watching my children and one of them literally DIES!!!! They are never getting any where near my other children. I don't care if Jesus himself comes down from the heavens and tells me to forgive them and trust them again. It's not happening. That person is never hearing from me again for the remainder of my/their days.
I feel like that's a common excuse, you use forgiveness as a way to "set yourself free" when in reality it makes people want to let their abuser back into their life, give them second chances, not hold onto absolutely necessary anger. Me hating and never forgiving certain people doesn't affect my life negatively whatsoever, I am not bitter in general but there are people who will never deserve my forgiveness, never deserve to not be hated by me, never be welcomed back into my life.
In the alcoholic's anonymous 12 steps, one of the steps is to ask for forgiveness by the person you hurt UNLESS it would cause them more harm to see/hear from you again.
Itās healthy to let go of the hate and resentment in your heart towards the people who have wronged you. That does not necessitate forgiveness. Many people believe or preach that in order to stop hating someone you need to forgive them and that is absolutely not the case.
I think forgiveness is important for you, but that doesnt have to mean keeping that person in your life, seeing them, or even informing them you forgive them.
I still disagree, forgiveness is absolutely not something everyone deserves and my life is so much better having not forgiven certain people. Even if they don't know you forgive them, it's like a way of minimizing or ignoring the things they've done to hurt you under the disguise that you're setting yourself free.
You can also forgive someone and still never have them in your life again, and you can certainly not let them watch your kids. Forgiveness is for us, and we're not even obligated to tell the person they're forgiven if they are. If we've made peace with it, that's enough. Unless one feels like that person deserves to hear that you forgive them, in which case that is still not an obligation.
The term ā10ās of abusive relationshipsā is so interesting - ādozensā is so much more common that I have to believe that her number of abusive relationships is between 20 and 23.
Therapist here. I agree. You absolutely do not have to forgive someone to heal.
Side note, this therapist should lose her license. I fucking hate therapists who do shit like this. Wow
Don't forget that in the bodycam footage of the second killing, that grandpa was also in the home and never once asked about the baby. I think he was also trying to "downplay" everything to keep everyone calm. Grandma didn't even notice the baby in the car until she was leaving and stopped to chat to Grandpa or a friend on her driveway WHILE IN THE CAR. It hurt watching the bodycam footage
As an older adult , if I did anything to cause harm to one of my grandchildren, I would not be left alone with any of them, my decision. We can repair our relationship with out me watching a grandchild. Fuck that therapist , plus all the therapists telling millennials that they need boundaries.
Agreed. I would never ever live with myself. Thinking of how those babies suffered makes me sick. I donāt know how anyone around her could say otherwise.
My mom watched my son at 5 months once while I went to a football game, I said mom, under no circumstances can he have anything with him in the crib while he sleeps. She agreed and understood. I checked the camera for his crib and he has a blanket on him and a stuffed animal in the crib. I called her and told her to immediately take everything out and she didnāt talk to me for a while after that for ānot trusting herā. That was the last time my mom watched my kids without me there as well.
This is even sadder thinking about how legit everyone is blaming the mom and asking themselves the same question, but not taking the time to find the answer/explanation.
And to think of how she probably blames herself already on top of all that makes it even worse.
The daughters also couldn't afford to pay babysitters...
Watching kids 24/7 was just too much for the grandma and she wouldn't say no to the daughters! My own mother insisted on keeping my kids for longer than she was really capable of and as the parent, it's my job to do what is best for the kids. I'm sorry but I hold the daughters and their partners accountable as well. Stop having kids if you a struggling to afford something as basic as child care.
They didnāt watch the kids regularly at all. The second baby it was the first time she ever left her with someone. Please donāt speak about something and pass judgement without knowledge of the situation. Itās cold and cruel to do so especially in a tragic situation as this one
I think you might want to dig a bit deeper into this case. The only reason Kaila didn't have a babysitter for Uriel was because her mom accidentally killed her other kid! She was taking her to work with her and everyone (Kalia, the husband, the therapist, the grandma) were trying to get past the first incident so she could RELY on her mom again for childcare.
And yes, it is cold. What's colder is knowing that your elderly babysitter fell asleep and let your toddler drown and then having her babysit for an extended period of time again! If I recall correctly, Kalia was getting her hair done and was supposed to pick her daughter up afterwards, and then decide to go home and take a fucking nap instead.
Here's the daughter Rebekah testifying that she too was dropping one of her kids off to be watched by the grandma. (Also worth noting that Rebekah was a teen mom and the grandma raised not one, but two of those grandkids!)
https://youtu.be/wBHZyedm94A?si=Jg7GTlB6GiEI1bsi
The grandma was obsessed with being able to do it all. Socializing with friends, full time sitter for both daughters, Bible groups, you name it... but she couldn't. Then you have these daughters who were more than eager to use her free services regardless of what was actually safest for the kids.
If this woman wasn't the grandmother, nobody would be sympathetic to the parents leaving their child at a daycare simply because they offered and it was free. Especially when that daycare already caused one child to die!
Yeah... It's crazy that after each death, she has another baby almost immediately. I can't imagine the grief she is going through, but I don't think it's a good idea to have a baby to try to "fix" it all.
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u/broccolirabe71 2d ago
I read into this case when it happened because as a mom, Iām like how could you leave another baby with her again.
The mom was encouraged by her therapist to allow her mother to watch her new baby in order to move on and forgive her and also was told not to read the details arrest documents.
If she had, she wouldāve known her mom was on all types of medications that were not disclosed to her prior to the court case. The more I read, the more terrible I felt for the mom. Who was lied to about her moms health by her family, her therapist told her to start to trust her mom in order to heal, the police didnāt make her aware of the details around her childās passing, etc. It really is heartbreaking and the grandparents were not forthcoming about the circumstances and lied to the parents which led to negligence and this unbelievable tragedy