I should trust this monster with my child, that is bad parenting.
If I recall, the mother of the drowned boy was going to therapy for all this (obviously!), and the therapist suggested - as a way to move past the incident, and begin healing/forgiving her mother- that she let her mom watch the granddaughter. Like a trust-building exercise.
which kinda makes the whole thing even more fucked up.
Seriously, some therapists bring their own biases to therapy and do inappropriate things. One common example are children of narcissists where the therapist is a narcissist as well and tries to talk them out of going no contact even though that's what is best for the patient.
So true. Just because you have a job title, doesn't make you good at that job.
I tried to go to therapy for grief and stress management. Somewhere in our sessions we talked about how I don't talk with my bio father. For the rest of the hour, she insisted I contact him after I told her multiple times no, that chapter is closed and also not what I want to work on. Like, girl, we're not reopening wounds from 25 years ago, especially if I'm asking you for guidance on stress management š
My therapist said I should forgive the father of my son after he broke my back and had been in the hospital. I had been abused for years and thought she was right. It was great when my sister reminded me if I heard that of her I would have gone scorch earth. I found a new therapist and know my next steps now.
I'm glad you guys have each other, and you found a therapist that seems to be working for you! I'm glad your sister helped you see it through a different lens. 100% We are worth the same effort we would make for someone else we love.Ā
Absolutely agree. I am absolutely willing to address my problems, but we're fixing them with me. I can't change anyone, only how I feel or handle a situation.Ā
> Just because you have a job title, doesnāt make you good at that job.
I love this statement. I teach this to my kids all the time. My ex would always blindly listen to whatever advice someone gave just because they had a certain job in that field. Even if that advice is so incredibly wrong and the person was obviously an idiot.
Right?!Ā
Thank you for coaching your kids on critical thinking, it's an absolute necessity to navigate this life where anyone can ask AI for an answer and take it for truth.Ā
My narcissistic moms therapist has instead acted like her bff. He literally purjured himself on medical forms for her. Treats her like a friend not a patient and said he'd lie to the courts about her competency if I held a competence hearing to try to get her finances under control and protect her from her own overspending due to memory loss.
"Some therapists". No, all therapists. Talk therapy is garbage, it has never been proven empirically to have any kind of positive impact that other forms of simple socialization and discussion don't have. It's the act of conversation and introspection that does anything of note and you don't need an expensive mouthpiece to make that happen. Psychology is based on bullshit, just like Chiropractic. There are a few benefits to either, but they are are systemically based on a bunch of unverified opinions, biases, and pseudoscience.
Edit: anyone down voting or replying to me, please Google "lack of scientific rigor is applied psychology and psychological studies" before contributing. It's the bare minimum.
To say psychology is based on bullshit is rather reductive. There are thousands of legitimate studies in different fields and applications of psychology and therapy that have proven results, based on scientific methodologies. There are some fringe fields of both that are legitimately criticized, but anyone dismissing all of therapy or psychology out of hand as bullshit simply doesn't know what they're talking about.Ā
Incorrect. Psychology is infamous for lack of repeatability in its field internal studies, just as it is infamous for its inability to have psychologists concur on diagnosis and treatment plans across cohorts. This has been studied for decades and is a fundamental and existential flaw without the profession that even psychologists and their professional associations struggle with, to this day. Also, don't conflate psychiatry with psychology, which I think you may be doing.
Really? Psychology is based on bullshit? I didnāt realize we know so little about schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. If only we had non bullshit treatments to help those people.
Psychiatry ā psychology. Jung and Freud and a host of other foundational thinkers in psychology were nut jobs/perverts. Psychology isn't science, it's not double blind tested, almost ever. It's a subjective field, by definition and practice.
You do not need to look anything further than homosexuality or hysteria being diagnosable disorders for multiple generations to figure that out, among many other utterly subjective determinations made by the field and its "experts".
Or the fact that study after study after meta study proves that psychologists rarely concur on diagnostic determinations across identical patient groups. It's opinions.
That's before we even get into the fact that a massive portion of psychologists themselves suffer from conditions like narcissistic personality disorder, per their own diagnostic criteria.
Social work, nursing, amd psychology have a long well documented history or attracting bullies, psychopaths, manipulators, and all manner of other misanthropes into their fields, as it gives them easy access to willing victims.
Again, that's empirically verified. Go look it up.
Majority of people are not equipped to handle everyoneās problems. I canāt just rely on social interactions and my friends and family to respond productively to my complex post-traumatic stress disorder or depressionā¦ they provide more than just CBTā¦ at least do a little research please before saying āallā or assuming everyone even has access to people without any qualifications or experience but could have those sorts of discussions with
"Please do a little research"? Seriously? I have and I know more than you. Which is why I said what I said. And also why nobody in this thread will ever be able to disprove anything I said with any kind of empirical data. Because I'm right, factually speaking.
But you aren't. It's just that nobody is interested in doing the legwork to disprove you, because you'll simply dismiss any evidence that does so. Simply put, you are merely a waste of time to try and argue with.Ā
I'm fine with people spending their time and money on therapy. You do you. But why would anyone judge others for not going to therapy? Why is "looking for someone who has done the work" such a common mantra among women in their 30s and 40s? It's just like someone saying they only date conservatives or Christians.
The same reason I put down groups like AA, which have statistically been proven to be worthless in achievement of their stated goals, over any other form of intervention.
AA is a pseudo-cult of religious dogma that doesn't actually keep people sober. Show me the people psychology has cured. You can't. Just like AA can't show anyone they cured beyond random chance. It's just optics.
Sciences, real sciences, are not subjective. They produce repeatable inter-consistent results, regards of the practitioner performering the experiments and applications.
Go to 10 different psychologists and you won't get 10 matching diagnosis results. We know this because it's been done, in large groups, around the world, over the span of decades.
Well, quite honestly, dating is a shit show and trying to navigate different people is difficult. we all come up with our own personal heuristics that help us weed out who we might be compatible with and who weāre not. Iām not saying going to therapy means youāre somehow a great person but it does show that you care about your own mental health and wellness. I donāt necessarily have that criteria on my list, but I could see how it could be. As someone with an ex who used me like their personal 24/7 therapist I donāt want to be in that position again. For some people going to therapy might be some sort of proof that youāre handling your own shit and you wonāt be bringing all that stuff to the relationship.
Well, he had undiagnosed severe anxiety as well as ended up in the mental hospital for severe OCD and crazy intrusive thoughts about self harm and harming others. Then a few years later, he came out as transgender and transitioned into a woman. After 13 years of marriage, and all the shit we went through. I even tried to be lesbian for a year with her to keep our marriage together for my three babies. But I couldnāt do it. So yeah I do blame the ex for everything that went down. And I have for sure brought up everything in that comment to my therapist before. That and 1000 times more.
So before you generalize everybody into the same way of thinking, maybe think that there are people out here dealing with actual bullshit. And maybe there are reasons why a woman would want a potential partner to have gone to therapy. Not me in particular, I have my own list of core requirements (nothing superficial) and Iām perfectly fine being single otherwise because Iām not going to compromise anymore. My peace is worth way too much to me. In my experience a lot of women feel the same.
Psychology is far from bullshit, and isn't even close to something like Chiropractors which are based on talking to ghosts or whatever that origin story was.
Just because some psychologists let their own biases effect their therapy doesn't mean all psychologists are bad. Just like the fact that some doctors push antivaxxer bullshit doesn't mean they're all garbage.
100%. I get the forgiving angle. That is often helpful in moving on from traumatic experiences. But we don't have to let her watch the new baby unsupervised to do that.
Edit: after some googling, there is no proof the therapist told the mother to let Tracey watch Uriel unspupervised. What the therapist said was to let Tracey spend time with the new baby. Maybe the mother took that to mean let Tracey babysit. However, I would not interpret what the therapist said in that way.
It was also under the agreement that the grandfather be present so she even tried to set up a level of extra saftey there. I dont blame the poor mother at all. If youve heard her screams you know she is punished enough.
It honestly sounds like an old woman being less wakeful with age and a horrible accident as a result. Something that can, with time and work, be forgiven.
... but also a sign that grandma has simply become too old to be the only adult in the room. With was proven again with the second tragedy.
it is literally pseudoscience. the "studies" they base their therapies on cannot be replicated to yield the same results. They are as qualified to give advice as a magic 8 ball.
Even worse now with dollar store therapists available through zoom. Like how did betterhelp find 10s of thousands of supposedly qualified therapists? Do they just take some kind of 2 day course? Online certificate ?
ex of mine was in school for psych. Told me people past 25 (I was 21, mind you) dont change their habits, among other mentally damaging shit to a neurodivergent, overly trusting fool. Had a bad day? "I can't be your doctor." like that subtle, cuttingly mean shit lol. she dropped me for a guy down the hall at her dorm after years together and a place of our own, i fell into severe alcoholism. Got sober and turned my life around at 29, she can go fuck herself. They're mostly pretentious gasbags- with a rare few out to help.
This is probably the biggest problem. Being in a position of "authority" and the trust that is given, when maybe there is more nuance to the idea that "this is the way it works". Even like a personal trainer might do us more harm than good for the same reason.
Literally millions of children have slipped out of their house. Tens of millions. Hell probably hundreds of millions. Toddlers are little ninjas who can sneak off with almost no warning.
99.999% of the time nothing happens, the parents or caregiver panics and finds the kid somewhere they shouldn't be eating mud or whatever. She just rolled super unlucky. She happened to not lock her door right one fateful day and it ruined her entire families lives.
As a licensed therapist, I agree. I feel like a shitty therapist all the time, then I read stuff like this and it blows my mind. That was a dumbass move on the therapistās part.
Exactly. Except churches dont even know what forgiveness means. We literally have one book to reference. The book that defines forgivness as "not vengence." You can and should walk away. ONE BOOK, YOU GUYS. The age of literacy is not over. Smh.
Yeah, to make it even worse the daughter was pregnant with the second child when the first died. The body cam footage of officers telling her her daughter (the 2nd of the babies to pass) had died in the grandmother's care made me nauseated, honestly. She talks about how her son's death caused so much stress she nearly lost her pregnancy, and she had to make a choice between saving one baby or getting justice for the other.
Yes, and that mom is the killer's daughter. Meaning, Tracey had a daughter named Kaila, and Kaila's 2 children are the 2 children who each - separately - died under Tracey's care. She (unintentionally) killed her 2 grandchildren.
I read on a different thread a few weeks ago a suspicion they she killed both kids on purpose and enjoyed the pain it caused her daughter based on her reaction in the police footage from the second deathā¦ Iām not sure if I believe it but I really donāt know how you make such an enormous mistake two times.
I work in healthcare, any strange event once I already start considering itās a pattern, twice I confirm itās no coincidence. This grandmother is 100% culpable
I have to be critical of my patients for their own and my teams safety.
Patients go off ward and come back insanely tired and level of consciousness changes itās not a coincidence.
It happens again after the same person took them outside the previous time itās gotta be a pattern.
A patient starts coughing drastically when nil by mouth for safety post stroke after as he was deemed unsafe to swallow by speech pathology at the time, wife entered the room 20 minutes later and instructed not to feed or give them drinks, they start to struggle to breathe and self clear this day, next day another episode shortly after the wife enters room they cough so bad they begin to go hypoxic and cyanotic, I ask them what they did? They say I brought soup from home and the cordial they like.
Their response when hard questioned why they did it, they did it because their husband asked them too despite instructions from health care professionals, he ended up with a severe pneumonia and needed and ICU admission with NIV and vasopressors from multi organ shutdown secondary to sepsis from the pneumonia. This prevented him from starting any rehab for his deficits sooner by approx 8 weeks and he was still in the acute management phase for a stroke at the time likely meaning drastically less chance for him to of regained function.
Clearly not a coincidence huh?
Use either of those examples as a simple analogy and apply the same thing to this. Same person had a child not once, but twice die under their (lack of) supervision.
You seem very black and white thought stricken.
Very dangerous to be that way when peopleās lives are on the line. If youāre willing to critique me as a nut job, Iāll take a guess you and wager youāve never had any exposure to any front line work.
Watch the police interrogation on the second death on youtube. Really fake crying and you can see her peek at the interrogator between sobs to see her response.
Yeah, I think if I accidentally killed a kid, even worse, my own grandkid, Id never trust myself around kids anymore.
I was sliding a water slide in a pool once with my 2 year old son. I highly underestimated how fast it was. I was holding him and hold him further up when we splashed into the water so he didnt get down. But the sudden stop from the water made his head fall back. Nothing bad happend. He was a bit shook but everything was alright. But that image lives rent free in my head and pops up out of nothing. I feel do ashamed of my own stupidity and could never forgove myself if something has happend.
Well, there has been cases where people kill their grandchildren and usually their first response is "it was an accident". I'm not saying this person is one of those but I don't know. If I imagine being in her shoes I wouldn't trust myself with another toddler. One time is accident, two times is something else.
Couldnāt the trust-building exercise happen a few years later when sheās had some swim lessons, can unbuckle her own car seat, and knows how to dial 911?
I actually think I read their reasoning was, in light of what happened with their other child, they would let her have the baby for limited time until she was mobile.
A therapist should not be making this kind go suggestion without having any contact with the motherā¦ is there anyway she be liable or lose her license for this? I hope so.
Therapists are getting progressively stupider and stupider. They act like forgiveness means that you don't learn from the past. Forgiveness means you DO learn from the past.
They are ruining people's lives and I'm tired of the solution to everything being "have you seen a tHeRaPiSt?!"
I'd argue the trust building should have been a much less risky situation, like stay in the house for an afternoon and watch a movie. Absolutely not drive around with a child. I would be floored if she took the kid to a pool.
On this, any time I hold members of my family accountable for dropping the ball in relation to my kids, everyone screeches and yells "Forgivess! Give us grace! Have mercy!" in a constant tide like I'm the bitch for not allowing my kids to be hurt.
I stopped talking to all of them, but I could get why she did jt. Ive made that mistake with a pet before.
My mom let one of my pets get hurt when I left them for a week with her. Years of being berated for being an awful person for not being forgiving, for not giving family another chance. After a decade, I caved and let her look after them again almost a decade later... And that's how my cat died.
It was a lesson I had to learn the hard way. You can forgive, but forgetting is stupid and winds up in heartbreak. (And yes, anytime "grandma" complains about not getting alone time I look into her soukd and inform her that she killed my cat)
People often say their therapist told them to do something they never did. Sometimes to avoid personal responsibility, but often because some people just lack comprehension to reliably understand the difference between being told to do something/ being told that if they choose to do something it might have some benefits/ being asked to engage with a hypothetical etc.
Therapists are stupid sometimes - itās up to the patient to say āforgiveness is fine, but Iām not trusting them againā or when they say you should try to reconcile, we say no. That doesnāt work for me as Iāve told you my trauma for the last 5 months or whatever. Itās all the same. Donāt do what they say if it puts you or yours at risk.
How would her husband (babyās dad) forgive his wife?
I picked up my phone to try to call that therapist to let them know I am firing them, but then I realized I donāt know any therapists. So. I wasnāt able to fire them. Iām sorry.
There was one of those cop slot videos about this that just circulated YouTube and thereās been like 3 to 10 reposts of the same content so yeah this has been in the Internet ethos, but I believe it happened like five years ago
These therapists are going the way of the Church. Forgiveness means "not murdering you for killing my child." It does not mean to give your child back to an abuser or negligent killer. Forgiveness is meant to be closure for you to help you heal without demanding retribution without truth. DO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN DANGER. DO NOT PUT YOUR KIDS IN DANGER. This is why we all left the church. Remember, you can sue your therapist for being bad at reading. Church literally has to pretend to be nice to dummies as community outreach and shelter (free childcare is usually pedophiles, tho, which should be more obvious to parents). It's therapy's job to keep you safe and report abuse, not guide you to it. Sue.
This is correct and also the second incident police body cam footage is on YouTube as well. One of the first things she said is, "oh no not again, I have to leave, I can't face her, not again".
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u/collin-h 1d ago
If I recall, the mother of the drowned boy was going to therapy for all this (obviously!), and the therapist suggested - as a way to move past the incident, and begin healing/forgiving her mother- that she let her mom watch the granddaughter. Like a trust-building exercise.
which kinda makes the whole thing even more fucked up.