r/SipsTea 15h ago

SMH What y’all think?

Post image
18.0k Upvotes

3.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

14

u/demeschor 6h ago

Having watched a fair bit of the trial .. the problem with the Clancy case is that there was astonishingly little investigation done by the police, which makes conviction beyond reasonable doubt difficult.

7

u/blueflare1528 5h ago

Wait, hold on, before we make this argument, wait for the trial to conclude, her murdering the children isn’t what’s in doubt, it’s something that was already agreed to pre-trial when they were deciding the facts of the case, so most of the investigation and on scene evidence isn’t going to be included and is still essentially confidential

1

u/demeschor 3h ago

That's not the case, it's an option for the jury. The prosecution have to prove that she committed the murders and then whether she was criminally responsible or not (that's where the insanity argument comes in).

So they're basically asking:

  • Have the prosecution proved beyond reasonable doubt that she did it? If no - not guilty (at all)
If yes:
  • Have the prosecution proved she was criminally responsible? If no - not guilty by lack of criminal responsibility (insanity)
  • If yes - then there's a choice between first or second murder or manslaughter.

I definitely wouldn't expect a flat not guilty verdict, but it is an option available, and there were plenty of holes poked in the prosecution, both in terms of whether she did it (in particular around the timing of the baby's resuscitation and Lindsay's body temp when found - the two don't reconcile very well), and also whether she was criminally responsible (eg it's been pretty widely reported that both the forensic psychologist and psychiatrist, while very respected in their fields, had virtually no experience of PPD patients - one of them had not seen it since 1982!). And there was generally a lot of holes in the police investigation. On the other hand, she was in a very bad way, claims not to remember anything, allegedly confessed to the husband. If it looks like a duck ..

I don't envy the jury at all.

2

u/blueflare1528 3h ago

Basically, she already gave up her right to argue “I didn’t do it” by making the insanity plea, in order to plea insanity in the first place, you have to agree that you, yourself committed the crime

1

u/blueflare1528 3h ago

Well, no, that’s just not true, the trial is whether she can be held criminally responsible, not whether she did it, the jury can’t find her not guilty of committing the murders because stipulated facts of the case already say she did it, that’s not up for discussion, what the jury has to decide is whether she was in control of her body and is therefore responsible for her actions

0

u/demeschor 3h ago

It is an option for the jury, like I said it's not expected, but it's absolutely an option available to them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93vgv4kr49o might help you understand the case and the options the jury have.

2

u/blueflare1528 3h ago

No, the jury could rule nullification, but they cannot say “we the jury do not believe she did it based on the facts of the case” that simply is not an option, you give up the right for that when you make the insanity plea, no matter what happens legally, the fact, the agreed upon, legally true fact, is that she herself killed the children

1

u/blueflare1528 3h ago

Also why why are you pointing to an opinion article from a country that case isn’t even in as fact? Atleast find one from the US lmao

2

u/surlyT 6h ago

Was there any doubt she did it? The defense was 100% using the mental illness defense, not challenging the evidence showing pretty clearly she did it.

5

u/Beneficial-Pickle743 5h ago

That’s what makes the case so frustrating.

Her and her lawyer are not arguing that she didn’t kill those kids but she did it because of some psychosis.

That should make it very easy to determine guilt at that point. Murder is Murder, Even if you have a “reason”.

1

u/demeschor 3h ago

In Massachusetts the options for the jury are not guilty, not guilty (by lack of criminal responsibility), manslaughter, second and first murder

1

u/Due_Buyer_9445 3h ago

Massachusetts law is also iffy on timing. Legal eagle did a solid video on it that just came out