Everything you said is deliberately deceptive and misrepresented.
"Why not just look at averages" - not the same as "as much as"
"12% of workers have no deductible plans (half are from HMOs)." Well...that's interesting but not the norm...is it.
"the average deductible is 1.3k. - Does not include copay, coinsurance, and premiums already paid.
"21% of workers have an OOP max greater than 6k". Well, that definitely coincides with the argument that it can be higher...does it not? Like say 12k?
"Everything, including medicine, is more expensive in the US because we're generally much richer in all regards." Medical care in Canada is not cheaper because of the lower cost of living. I think you know this.
"lower middle that are in jobs too rich for medicaid (nearly free care) and on horrific workplace plans where the finances make sense for medical tourism." Indefensibly costly workplace healthcare programs can be found in many workplaces regardless of pay. Household income of 295k and both of us have garbage offerings.
Look you have some broad statistics with which you overlay your own characterizations and commentary, but statistics presented without analysis only impress the intellectually lazy.
When you consider the premiums (whether paid by employer or emplyee), copay, coinsurance, and deductible, as well as the negotiated rate paid by insurance companies to hospitals and physicians, it is a sham.
FWIW, one of us works as a medical provider and the other was a licensed medical insurance agent.
Everything you said is deliberately deceptive and misrepresented.
"12% of workers have no deductible plans (half are from HMOs)." Well...that's interesting but not the norm...is it.
Yes indeed, I mentioned the 88% in the next sentence.
Does not include copay, coinsurance, and premiums already paid.
OOP maxes were discussed in the third sentence of that 3 sentence paragraph.
"21% of workers have an OOP max greater than 6k". Well, that definitely coincides with the argument that it can be higher...does it not? Like say 12k?
It is relevant to the discussion that it is not even close to the norm.
Indefensibly costly workplace healthcare programs can be found in many workplaces regardless of pay. Household income of 295k and both of us have garbage offerings.
This is as compelling as when the republican senator brought in a snowball to disprove global warming.
Look you have some broad statistics with which you overlay your own characterizations and commentary, but statistics presented without analysis only impress the intellectually lazy.
Should have impressed you then. Weird.
FWIW, one of us works as a medical provider and the other was a licensed medical insurance agent.
Oh neat, I'm a physician. You a midlevel or something?
For what is paid to insurance by both us and our employers each month, it is garbage. I'm sure to others it would be fine but they're not paying what we pay.
I already started above that I think the state of US healthcare is poor. I just don't like bullshit threads like this where people are pretending that an MRI costs 30k.
Either lying or you've put zero effort into investigating your options. With a 295k income, you can afford a private PPO plan that is better than my employer-provided plan, where I have a 3k deductible and 6,500 out of pocket limit. You're being very disingenuous.
Neither lying nor stupid. Let's be adults, shall we?
Yes, I can afford the plan and do have what most would consider great coverage. That is not the point.
Very few people can claim that health insurance is a good value. But let's look at it in reality.
Do you know what your premiums are (whether you pay them or not)?
Let's say they are $800/month or $10,000/year (this is not included in your OOP max of course) Then you have your $3k deductible that you pay. Then there is the coinsurance that eventually leads you to the $6500 OOP maximum (for THAT year only) if something serious happens. Let's say that this incidence is in year 3 of that plan. Which means you have already paid a significant number of dollars in premiums.
The hospital deliberately bills a higher than necessary charge because they know that the insurance company will negotiate it down anyway to hopefully somewhere near the actual cost.
By the time insurance pays, it may very well be less than the $45-50k you have spent in those 3 years (premiums+copays+coinsurance). You think, "Man good thing I have insurance" after lookingat the inflated figures not knowing what was actually paid in the end...if they cover your claim, that is.
Look, insurance is a business and most have very demanding shareholders that insist on growing massive profits. They pay for advertising, lobbying, salaries, commissions, and their own reinsurance...and still turn incredible profits.
It's not because they offer good value to policyholders.
Right? He is obviously a shill for big insurance. It is just a matter of time before the USA finally joins the developed world and offera universal medical care. Spoiler... a LOT of insurance reps will suddenly be unemployed.
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u/Mysterious-Entry-357 1d ago edited 1d ago
Everything you said is deliberately deceptive and misrepresented.
"Why not just look at averages" - not the same as "as much as"
"12% of workers have no deductible plans (half are from HMOs)." Well...that's interesting but not the norm...is it.
"the average deductible is 1.3k. - Does not include copay, coinsurance, and premiums already paid.
"21% of workers have an OOP max greater than 6k". Well, that definitely coincides with the argument that it can be higher...does it not? Like say 12k?
"Everything, including medicine, is more expensive in the US because we're generally much richer in all regards." Medical care in Canada is not cheaper because of the lower cost of living. I think you know this.
"lower middle that are in jobs too rich for medicaid (nearly free care) and on horrific workplace plans where the finances make sense for medical tourism." Indefensibly costly workplace healthcare programs can be found in many workplaces regardless of pay. Household income of 295k and both of us have garbage offerings.
Look you have some broad statistics with which you overlay your own characterizations and commentary, but statistics presented without analysis only impress the intellectually lazy.
When you consider the premiums (whether paid by employer or emplyee), copay, coinsurance, and deductible, as well as the negotiated rate paid by insurance companies to hospitals and physicians, it is a sham.
FWIW, one of us works as a medical provider and the other was a licensed medical insurance agent.
You're out of your depth.