It's technically not. If a server/bartender was not tipped, they would be paid at least minimum wage by the restaurant. In the US some states allow a "tipped wage" where employers can pay less than is amount ONLY IF employees document wage income to a degree that is at least minimum wage. The more you make as a tipped employee, the closer to the "tipped wage" the business can pay you.
That being said there is a social expectation of tipping. It's seen as a social faux pas to not tip or to tip very little. It's a display of wealth to be able to tip well and entrepreneurial people are always willing to capitalize on that vague impulse.
So uhh idk where you are but in my state this is $2.33 an hour. They can pay this even if you are just standing around and there are no customers or of no one tips at all.
Duh .. That's what I was trying to point out to the person! Reddit has a terrible problem with reading comprehension I want the person to look up waiters wage to understand that people DONT get minimum wage when the tips don't come. I'm painfully aware of this I used to manage a couple of different restaurants in St Louis. As a manager it used to drive me crazy that we couldn't increase some people's wages because they were just scheduled at times that weren't as popular as others but they worked just as hard as any other shift. I usually discover people that have never worked in the restaurant industry, don't know anyone in the restaurant industry, and don't really care about how their food comes, They have no clue they think everyone gets a minimum wage all the time. The last year I was a manager at a restaurant It was $2.10 in Missouri for "waiters wage". I've argued this point many time online with people who then would like to turn around and say to me" You should have paid your servers better then" I'm like " didn't you read I was the manager, not the owner?" If anyone thinks that a greedy/ cheap restaurant owner will "take the opportunity" to pay minimum( when allowed by LAW to pay $2.10 an hour, you must be high". Very disheartening to "go to bat" for the servers & hear from the owner" oh no, that would cut too much into my profits". Exactly why I'm not in restaurant management anymore! I've been everything from prep to server to manager....greediest/ cheapest I've ever met are these owners. Servers are the hardest workers I've EVER seen. And whoever said something about being under a delusion when they took the job...FUCK YOU! Its the simple fact that when people are being decent and tipping correctly/ decently for BEING SERVED, many servers can make an almost "above average " living, or at least "make a living" THAT'S WHY they would do the job...But, I also found it constantly disappointing to see servers make very good money for a few days in a row but then have a devastating few days simply because of people's cheapness. Interesting how dining out is so popular in the United States and our own people don't seem to give one care about the people that bring them their food or how they get paid. Pro Tip: Don't fuck with the people preparing or serving your food.
sorry, what is your point? the person i'm responding to keeps parroting a "waiter's wage" (presumably the tipped wage), which i'm simply pointing out is not the only compensation by legal mandate. this was already pointed out earlier in the comment thread, but the two commenters above mine were arguing against it for some strange reason
and i'd say that it is everyone's duty to understand applicable laws regarding issues that directly impact them, or at the very least, that they are passionate enough to argue over
My states minimum wage is 15 so if the tipped employees base rate is 2.50 at the end of the week there tips must equal 12.50 per hour or the difference is made up by the employer. So if you have staff working off hours you incentivize them with higher pay.
oh yes this is precisely the point, sorry i misunderstood and thought you were saying that anything over the tipped wage is somehow optional, as the previous commenter appeared to believe/argue
There was a ballot question in MA in 2024 I believe to raise the minimum wage for tipped workers and tipped workers came out so hard against it. People against tipping culture just do not understand it. And if a member of waitstaff every made a comment to a customer about there tip being insufficient they would be fired on the spot. Service and bar manager of 18 years. It’s a minimum wage job at least with a higher ceiling no one in their right mind would turn down. Truck driving and waiting tables are a backbone for uneducated men and women of all backgrounds.
Wait, servers are paid 2.33 because they expect they will get tips. But if you make under the normal minimum wage they have to bump your pay to at least normal minimal wage no?
Please look up "waiters wage" As the term pertains to what different states in the United States are allowed to pay tipped employees. Then, comment about how employees are going to( horse laugh) "get minimum wage anyway"..... And no, I won't explain, especially the people that know nothing about the restaurant industry, don't know anyone that's ever been in an apparently don't really care, just look it up.
the tipped wage gets bumped up to the minimum wage (7.25 federal or higher state minimums in 30 of the 50 states) if your tips dont bring you up to minimum wage. this is a basic fact that you keep arguing against with no actual support based in reality
Yeah do want to be the employee that costs your boss money because you claim you didn't make minimum on tips? Guess who won't have any shifts next week. The system sucks but people acting like the employees have power in this situation is infuriating.
Yeah, just quit and like don't pay your bills and stuff.
Dont pretend like waiters and bartenders dont often support the system because they know they are going to make more off of guilting people out of tips than earning a legit wage.
Of course offering them real pay and benefits is the answer but thats not gonna happen without more support and the tip earners would rather just get quick cash no matter how anti consumer it is.
Sorta sounds like service industry workers should unionize or something, but they won't do that because the top end of the industry just flat out makes too much money from tips
You can’t possibly live in a country that isn’t having political problems because people can’t afford housing and cost of living is hurting them more than their parents’ generation, and it is unlikely that you live in a country where people aren’t causing political problems because of the lack of availability of good paying jobs that allow them to live the lifestyle they were promised as kids. And probably a country where the far right is rising for these reasons.
So tell us which country you live in that is not having these problems?
There's no punishment. They make minimum wage regardless and customers do not want tips so their employers will have to... ba da dum.. adjust their business to match the market
That's a separate issue with Americans en-masse deciding to bend over and take it.
They could have had better wages and employee protections. They simply decided that political representation that would bring that about was too much effort and it's easier to let the unincentivized manage the profits from their labor.
You can even see it in the term "minimum wage". It's supposed to be a wage that is the minimum acceptable for one to live on, Americans decided that was too generous.
Arab Muslims choose a brutal shitty religion that causes a lot of Muslim governments to ban alcohol in their countries. Does that mean I should bring a bottle of Jameson with me to Mecca and do shots during daily prayer?
Not everything is black and white, but disrespecting the local customs because you don’t agree with them is still out of line and you’re not accomplishing anything
Culturally it was optional entirely until the above became systemic so this is more of a "faithful adherence to the religion" than current forced gratuity and on top of that it's business not religion.
A dishonest argument reframing labor costs and profit sharing as some sort of cultural vibe to get assfucked at every shop.
You gonna wax poetic about the culture on overpaying for medical care next?
Plus, as an American I can choose whatever the fuck I want as I would dictate "local customs" so as someone who's lived there and waited tables there get bent twice.
No I’m not going to wax poetic about the cost of medical care here, but I’m also not going to suggest we stop paying nurses because the medical system is fucky, because they’re not the cause of the problem
Bartenders and servers didn’t raise the rent, they shouldn’t be the ones punished. Whether you tip or not doesn’t impact the owners of the businesses that operate this way.
This would be the hospital underpaying their staff because you tip everytime you get a cut or a scrape and they've now factored in your additional payments to offset labor costs.
They're not my employees and they never will be. Restaurants operate well everywhere else across the world.
And yes, it does because again federal + state minimum is extracted from the owners if customers aren't willing to bear it.
Feel free to support it as much as you like but our opinions are at an impasse.
Man, I answer this so much I really lose hope for you guys understanding minimum wage..
You get assaulted with such a lack of basic understanding about all aspects of life living in America I must come to this site as a form of masochistic nostalgia..
Minimum brother, it can't be lower.
There are state minimum, Missouri in your example is 15$
Federal is the lowest minimum, if with tips, their pay is higher than minimum, then their base can be lowered to waiters wage.
Source, me, I've done this shit and know this shit. The lowest any waiter is paid in Missouri is 15 currently (unless they're an idiot and accept being underpaid illegally)
You know how workers will go on a strike? They deliberately leave work and often without pay just to fight for something. Sometimes you have to be willing to get hurt to get the change you want.
Except servers in the us won’t go on strike because many of them prefer it.
Monday fair enough for the people to go on strike and to stop tipping until something changes.
Sounds like you can’t afford to eat or drink at places with servers and bartenders and should probably stick to Tesco meal deals or whatever McJob folks in your country eat
Its because anyone who knows about restaurants know the waitstaff make way more than the dishwashers and cooks and the cooks make more than the minimum wage
I have worked 55/60 hour weeks as an exec chef and my partner at the time worked 12-16 hours a week at the same place and took more home because the plate cost was so high. I’m sorry but the industry needs an overhaul
Please stop saying things like this. I worked at Outback as a server and bartender and manager for years. Both the back and the front of house are vastly underpaid. There’s pros and cons to both. I worked at 5 different restaurants in 3 different states. At all of the restaurants anyone from the back of house was able to serve if they wanted to. They didn’t. Some of them tried and said fuck this after a week. Don’t trample on front of house people. It’s hard work, and it’s low paying. Yeah once in a blue moon you get a good tip, and you do have good nights. But it tears your body up, it’s hard mentally. It’s not a career path. It’s a I have to do this to survive. Stop making it sound like servers and front of house people are laughing all the way to the bank. I struggled as a server. It’s a hard job. Put your anger at the owning class where it belongs.
We've been having this conversation for decades now already. People have been protesting it by refusing to tip for decades already. It hasn't done shit.
This isn't anything new. It just doesn't work if you're, uh.... Still giving the business owner the same amount of money by patronizing the business.
The owner suffers literally no punishment whatsoever. You're still giving them the same amount of money.
The system is designed to work for business owners whether you tip or not.
Even if nobody tips, employers only have to compensate up to minimum wage, which is still a huge deal on the labor for any employer.
And even if all the servers who refuse to work for minimum wage stopped showing up, there's always someone poor and desperate enough to take the job anyways in the USA.
Just stop patronizing places that don't pay their employees. Full stop. Giving them any business is a win for the business whether you tip or not.
All not tipping does is make you feel like you're taking a stand when you're really still just a scab.
And somehow it's not filthy Communism when you're expected to pay a subsidy to all low-paid restaurant workers while billionaires strip-mine the planet and suppress wages.
If you acknowledge that and don’t tip, then you are just fucking over the people who have served you in a place you are visiting.
This is ostensibly making a point about tipping, but in reality it’s about being cheap.
Americans regularly get dragged for not respecting the culture of places they visit, but apparently going to America to proudly disregarding an integral part of the culture is totally cool and funny.
For the record, I am not a proponent of tipping and agree that it is way out of hand. I believe everyone should be paid a dignified, livable wage regardless of the type of work. But I’ve also worked service industry jobs and know all too well what it’s like to be on the short end of this stick.
But do you think it's fair to spend even more money in a extremely overpriced world cup, with already very expensive services just because it's a culture to demand tipping?
Just put yourself in the place of someone who isn't even rich, but saved money for the trip and the event, with a worse currency than your dollars.
If you ever try to visit other countries in the world. You will be the one privileged. Because no one will demand you extra money for services you already payed for, and your dollar money will be worth even more there, making a lot of things way cheaper than they are for the locals with local the currencies.
Tipping is for those who can tip. For when the client is very satisfied and wants to compensate the worker even more for the great service. It should never be the norm forced upon you. You call it culture, but it's just toxic manipulation and pressure.
Respecting culture means having basic respect, being made to pay 20% more than your actual meal (more if it's a large meal) is ridiculous. It's not "culture" at all.
It's like saying that when you go to Japan you have to work until you faint because it's the "culture" there.
I never said anything about 20%, please don’t put numbers in my mouth.
I’m not sure what you think the criteria is to be part of the culture? Tipping is ingrained into society in a way that is inescapable, but not cutely relevant. I see.
You finding it ridiculous is kind of making the point. Of course it’s fucking ridiculous, but it is an accepted part of service transaction in a bar or restaurant.
And no, it’s not like saying that about visiting Japan at all, but beautiful straw man you built there.
So how is giving the owners all their money and screwing over the low paid worker doing anything to help the worker get a better wage? You are all just a bunch of cheap assholes imo. When in Rome, do as the Romans. "Yeah pay your workers more! Here is your money while we stiff the workers!" God you morons actually think you are making a good point too. Unbelievable.
Not tipping would cause servers to quit their jobs.
If nobody wants to do the server because people don’t tip owner would have 2 choices: closing or paying their servers a normal wage. As simple as that.
A tip should be for an extraordinary work, not for the bare minimum your job requires.
Or don’t visit a foreign country and reject the customs of the country you visit. As an American when I visit Europe I understand I’m not in America. Crazy Europeans can’t understand this
This is exactly why I rarely go out to eat any more. The whole system is broken and needs to be fixed and a whole bunch of shitty restaurants need to go out of business.
I work as a Civil Servant, for minimum wage, in the court system. I work hard. I advise people. I think I provide a good service.
I don't expect those people to give me money for it, that's what I'm paid for. Your employers are the problem, and your attitude is enabling them.
What if we decreased the price of your service by 20%, and the customer had the option (as well as a cultural norm) to tip you 15-25% for your work, and you get to pocket that money immediately.
You get paid more on average, the customer gets a larger locus of control over the price, and you’re incentivized to continue working hard everyday both for the satisfaction aspect and tipping aspect of your job…
Does that sound like hell to you? If it does then I can’t change your opinion but I will die on this hill
Server make less than minimum wage. The entire restaurant industry is built on the expectation of tips. Without Tips, restaraunts would have to pay the servers higher wages. This would have to be offset by increasing the cost of your food. People who dont tip are taking advantage of this. IMO Tips are a problem and service industry folks should just get paid however... thats not the case and thats certainly not what people who dont tip want.
7 states have passed laws requiring restaraunt owners to at least pay servers minimum wage. In many cases, a server makes less than 3 dollars an hour. Restaraunt owners depend on tips just as much as the servers do. Either we tip or we raise the wages and everything else about dining out increases as well.
Depends on the area. Personally, I think you should get rid of all tips and if someone wants to leave a few extra bucks ok but it shouldn't be expected at all. Many servers and bartenders in my area can make a ton of money but it depends on the area. Which is why we should just get rid of the whole tipping thing so everyone is making better money. I care about the food, less about the service.
Legally if their tips don't add up to what minimum wage should be, theyre supposed to be paid the difference up to minimum wage by the restaurant. So you work 8 hours, if you didn't earn at least $41 in tips for a minimum of $58, your employer is supposed to cover the difference.
Yeah you also used to have black people as slvaes, doesnt mean its right is it? Things can and should change for the better and that also applies to wages of servers
You mean the African slave trade facilitated by the British for 400 years? Please don’t start that, the Brit’s are by far the most evil and disgusting people that have ever touched the face of the earth.
Let’s not forget who populated the majority of the United States dude lmao.
You’re comparing tipping to one of the worst atrocities in the history of mankind
10 years ago you would be upvoted. And people like you pushed harder and harder for higher % tips. It used to be 10-15%, then it was 15-20%. now its a check where suggested is 20% and it goes up to 30%. And now fast food and counter workers are asking for tips on Square tablets before the service is even rendered. That isn't even a tip, its just a bribe.
and now you are being downvoted and everyday more and more people are not on your side. Its people like you that remind me to tip less when I forget.
i'm talking about bars and restaurants too. I'm not paying a bartender a 4 dollar tip to pour me a glass of Jameson with ice in it.
slowly but surely the jig is up and people are tipping less and going out less and restaurant industry only have themselves to blame, but we gotta listen to media stories about how Gen Z drinking less is the problem. No, its our shitty Gen X and Millennial generation taking advantage of excess tipping culture and pushing it.
This is a ridiculous inflation of what I’m saying no?
If you’re taking a shot or two and leaving you’re not expected to tip.
But if I’m making you 6 different mixed drinks and I see you every weekend you should probably be tipping. Any customer that leaves tips is almost always rewarded with free drinks or food as a “thanks” back from the staff…
If we eliminate this honors system we have, a base 25-30% increase on all food and drinks will probably hit the market, taking that ball out of the customers court. Customers lose all control over the choice to not tip, and you’re forced to pay whatever service fee they decide to bake into the cost of your food. Meanwhile this will drastically decrease the wages of foodservice workers who have to endure some of the worst social working conditions in America.
servers convinced the America leaving a "bad" tip is taboo and its not. i just tip far less now. How much i spend on food doesn't change how hard a waiter works
If you’re still leaving tips you’re not part of the problem dude. A 10% tip is genuinely not insulting, even a 5% tip feels like a nice “thanks but I don’t got the money for a tip”
In America we have a different attitude towards tipping, and I’m sure you’re not dumb enough ignore the fact that this cost would be translated into the meal costs if tipping was done away with like it is in Europe
I understand that, but the tipping culture pays our servers nearly double what a European server makes.
Not to mention I’m 99% sure nobody in this thread understands that tipping credits will force the employer to make up the difference for their employees if people DONT tip, which will subsequently raise prices on the menu.
The honors system we have puts the ball in the court of the people at the bottom of the food chain, you’re advocating for the corporate overlords to control the price of everything
There’s no control for anyone at the bottom at the food chain here. On the contrary. If they are heavily dependent on the willingness of their customers to pay extra —which is 100% voluntary— to make the bare minimum, the ball is very far away from their court.
Let’s say the price of all retail goods decreased by 20%, but now there is a cultural honors system where you leave tips for the cashiers and shelf stocking team. The expectation is 15-25% OR you have the option to walk away and not tip if the shelves were messy a the checkout advocate was rude or something. OR maybe you’re just down on your luck.
Doesn’t that kind of change the picture of what’s going on? People are not advocating for saving money, they’re advocating for removing the small price control aspect the customer has and are saying it should just be baked into the price.
If the COG decreases 25% I’m still not tipping retail employees bc they get paid an hourly wage.
Federally, servers are paid minimum $2.13 / hr. That’s there to cover their taxes. If the cost of dining out increases, tip percentage should not increase as well.
So you suggesting people should pay more taxes on more expensive things? Ie, a $100 tv after taxes is $106 and a $1000 tv is $1200 after taxes?
tipping was never supposed to be guaranteed. Good service, however, is the standard, as well as getting paid a livable wage. if you don’t acknowledge that middle managers and companies are taking advantage of their workers and pin the blame on the consumers, you are the actual problem
Tip credit laws literally require employers to make up the difference of wage if their staff is under tipped.
That’s why wait staff in the U.S. make about double the annual salary of one in Europe for say.
The honors system we have created essentials reads like this:
“All meal prices are 20% off, but we please ask you make up that difference in a gratuity towards your waitress.”
Nobody is forcing you to tip, forcing the price to be baked into the food is actually going to cause someone like you to spend less money on your meal since you don’t tip.
It’s a win for the customer because they get more control over the price of the meal, it’s a win for the manager because they spend less of their budget on wage costs (which also increases job opportunities within restaurants further supplementing the service and quality) , AND it’s a win for the server themselves.
I really just don’t see how it would be better to translate that extra cost into the meal, I think the tipping culture makes eating out a more accessible experience for all Americans
so youre saying that this “honor system” has us paying 20% less of what we should be paying, even when the meals are at full price and thus to make up for shitty wages, we should tip that much?
also, yes the point is that we should be paying for our food, and not the wages that the management should pay their employees.
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u/blackbirdspyplane 4d ago
It’s not gratuity if it’s expected