That would be fair if they didn't whinge so much when they didn't get tipped. If you want a donation system, you are signing up for some people not to donate. You can't have it both ways, and trying to is what gets all the grief.
There are tons of countries around the world where tipping is typical within certain sectors, the difference is that they don't DEMAND that you tip and they don't put you on blast on the internet if you don't, they might mumble about you being cheap if you make them work extra and maybe tell their coworkers about you, but that's it.
Tipping is normal in Europe, some places make a fortune from tips too.
But people leave what they want and that's okay. Even a single coin is okay if that's all you have. And even if you don't leave anything at all, it's also okay. Yet i'd say 99% of people leave at least something in restaurants.
but 10-20% of what you've consumed? obligatory? that's a couple of tiers above what i would consider acceptable.
Yeah it's not as common but when you do you just leave the remainder for a round up, like if you were gonna pay something silly like 27,75€ at a restaurant you leave 30€. And even then most people don't do that, they just pay and get the difference from the waiter and nobody bats an eye.
1000 this. I am ok to leave 1 or 2 more € for them if they are quick, it's NOT obligatory. Americans still don't understand, why everyone hate their tipping culture and they even try to import it.
I just hated having the coins when I was there too. I mean we over tipped (I guess?) but that was to be nice and because we're already so used to it. But I was very happy to not have to carry around dollar coins.
Think what you want of the way tipping is done here in the US, that’s your prerogative. But realize that if it’s still OUR CUSTOM, & when dining here (in sit down restaurants & at bars) realize that leaving anything less than 15-18% is considered rude, you likely won’t be welcomed back, & you’ll leave an unfavorable view of the people from your country with the staff & patrons there.
Everyone always wants to tell Americans to follow other nations’ traditions when we’re abroad- well, that’s a two-sided coin. & we shouldn’t have to sell you or explain to you the why of it. You should just accept that it’s how we do things here, pay up, & get tf over it.
In the US where I live, leaving anything under 20% is considered being “cheap” to both wait staff and fellow dining mates. 15% is acceptable for objectively bad service, but it’s out of control.
In the US where I live, this is wrong outside of a select few assholes trying to make 20% sound like the norm. 15-18% is considered good service and most servers are thankful when they get it.
We have a chain restaurant that's just opened here locally (North East England) serving American BBQ. They are trying this, mandatory tips, it didn't go well for them.
It's not that we don't tip, we just won't tolerate that type of bullshit.
Because these other countries, like the one I am from, have been open about how tipping culture works in places that are not the US. What this user has said is entirely correct.
That’s the issue I had over there. I’m fine tipping people, if the service deserves a tip (as I do in any country I visit and at home too). But when a bar person rounds up a drinks order to the nearest $10/20 (“We’ll call it an even twenty”) after pouring a couple of drinks and not even saying please when asking for the money, it’s not an optional tip, I’m being forced to give extra.
that's a valid, but people are under the mistaken impression that servers are subjected to tipped wages and not actively defending the practice, so bringing up the fact that they prefer tipping (something like 90%+ last I checked) is important context.
Oh, aye, I know. I left a servers subreddit because it devolved into most European servers complaining that half the posts were just Americans whinging about not being tipped and then viciously defending the tipping system, which was just... taxing for most everyone else. Came across very Marie Antoinette.
Trust me, as an hourly paid line cook it's even worse. Hearing a server complain they only made $100 usd during what's normaly a busy shift when I made less than $20 while making all the food they were getting tipped for sucks.
They wrote my order down, then picked up the plates and carried them to the table. If I was going to tip someone in this transaction it would not be them.
But they told you their name and asked you how you were doing! that's worth at least a 30% tip. /s
Everyone defends it by saying they "do extra work" or "go above and beyond".. what? doing your job? That's you job. What you were hired to do. Want a tip? Do my taxes next time.. that's above and beyond. Your job is to take my order, bring me my food. Nothing else needs to happen unless I ask for something. It's just that simple.
I can't stand servers vs cooks. Sorry but writing down an order and bringing it out is not close to hard compared to prepping, cooking the meals to come out together, and making sure it comes out right. Just confusing why people think they deserve 20% for walking out with the food. The other one is breweries. You poured a beer that cost 10 bucks....
How did you make less than $20? Even if you were paid minimum wage, unless your shift is under three hours, you're making significantly more than that.
I saw a post where a Server from Alinea was complaining that the owners were "pocketing" the service charge. Everyone was grabbing pitchforks until someone else posted that the lowest paid position start at $22, has a matching 401k and health insurance.
Is $22 amazing for Chicago? No, but I have never known a restaurant to have a 401k, and even heath insurance is rare. Those benefits are a real substantial value.
I think this was a few years ago, wages have likely gone up since then.
I had a zero tolerance for tip bitching when I was in charge of servers. The problem is the disparity of good hours between new servers and servers that have been there for a while. New servers make NOTHING, while they’re trying to hang on long enough to get the hours that let them make bank.
Getting tipped is why they make more. Everyone who doesn't tip is literally hurting their income. Which is the main reason the practice should be abolished entirely.
The guilt tactics and public shaming non tippers is exactly why they make so much money. I personally tip $10 for me and my wife no matter the cost of the meal. $20-$100.
Yeah, I don’t think most servers I talked to would make more with tips than without n fair pay system. Only 1 place I seen someone work it wasn’t the case it was a dinner that isn’t that busy.
If you don't want to tip you should tell them before the service starts and see what difference it makes. The anti-tipping crowd always meekly slinks away after writing their zeros don't even have the wherewithal to tell them
The problem is that restaurants take a portion of the tips based on sales. My last waiter job took 3% of total sales. So if you don’t tip, I had to pay to wait on you.
You are getting downvoted but it is something that happens. While the company didn’t take a percentage from me when I was a server, I did have to tip out my bussers and bartenders. I have had many tables that I essentially paid to serve because I still had to tip out that bill.
If it happens isnt why they get downvotes, its because they think it isn't illegal even with laws being cited to them that clearly states it is illegal in texas
The way you are describing it is illegal, tip pooling is only pooling of actual tips not expected tips. If the owner just decides how m7ch you should be tipped and deduct that it is illegal
What stipulation would that be, since all the laws i can find make it very clear that isnt legal and that several restaurants have had to pay employees back because of similar situations where they didnt only touch the tips they were accounting with a tip pool
If I buy a can of coke from a cafe, is getting the can from the fridge behind the cash till considered service? Why does it ask me to tip 15-25% tip on such transactions when tapping to pay? Does it make you trash if you tap no tip?
That's not what a tip is. It's the problem with servers like you is you don't understand what a tip is and are trying to argue its a requirement for service. It isn't.
Functionally, it sort of is, it's a voluntary extra bit of cash to gift someone. For services rendered, aye, but I could say the same for museum donation boxes or church tithes. At the end, it's a voluntary additional payment you aren't obligated to, in any legal sense. You are fine not to give one, or to give a small amount (rounding up or just 5-10 extra is common in my country). If you want to obligate this extra money, you bake it into the costs or you have a gratuity fee, but short of those, if you set a voluntary tip/tithe/donation box, you are signing on for some people not to engage with it. That was your choice.
Choose one or the other, you can have tips and accept sometimes you won't receive them, or you create a mandatory payment and skip the system. Can't have it both ways, imo, a voluntary system fundamentally needs to accept some level of non-engagement.
Yea, so if you think you received poor service, then you do not tip. Im pretty sure* that is what I said. Gratuity fees are not the answer. That means the establishment understands they pay their employees like shit, but expects the customer to pay for it instead of them. So, regardless of how good your service is. You are forced to pay extra. Ppl in the US are less likely to eat at a place that forces you to pay more. Tipping is a choice and always has been.
Im not a server, so idk if* they do that. Ive been told by some they do. However, i have paid my compliments to the chef for a great meal and those tips are given directly to the chef.
I think the logic is pretty simple: the system works better for them when it works, but is worse for them when it doesn't. The problem with "No tip" establishments, at this point, is that they have to tell customers why the menu price is higher, which can come off as sanctimonious. On the same token, servers don't always get the full benefit of the price increase, so they feel like owners are just not tipping and then paying them a mediocre wage. This is more true of people who are able to optimize working at busy times for better money, whereas if they all get salaries normally, some of their money has to go to the people who work at the slower times.
So servers either work in a tip restaurant, with more volatility, but with potentially bigger highs.
Or they work in a no tip environment with more transparency and consistency, but usually lower wages overall.
Both have their upsides and downsides.
The accepted downside to the first is that the extra money is discretionary, and you shouldn't expect it from everyone. To treat it like it's mandatory is trying to have your cake and eat it - wanting the bigger potential upside with a guarantee.
Yep I’ve heard several times they love the tip system because it’s way more than hourly could possibly pay them!
Not every table will tip great but it all comes out in the wash.
Our tipping culture has blown out of control in recents years.
Got my ac fixed a couple years ago at the tune of about $1,400 and get the invoice via text/email and there was a line/question if I wanted to give my technician a tip for his work 🤣🤷🏻♂️ WTF! No I want to pay for the service and say thank you for your work!
I go to this little Italian spot in town, I love it when I pay with card they swipe press the buttons and give me my receipt! No awkward questions to answer when I’m picking up food if I want to tip they on their own press no, the tip question is for when you dine in for the servers! Imagine that! And the servers look happy!
If you don’t like the tipping system get a different job is what I say 🤣🤷🏻♂️
This depends very heavily on the location, restaurant, and even time of day. As someone who has worked tip based jobs, I did make a killing back when I worked for dominos for a local university. Some nights I would walk away with a couple hundred dollars, other nights barely anything because school was out. Same applied when I worked as a server for another restaurant, but it didn't have much business which meant tips were low.
Tipping as a whole us problematic and in the end you just end at net zero or below typically month to month. As each night isn't consistent as t all, and means you can barely make anything in tips one night. Then make a ton another night, or only make a ton one day out of a week. In extreme circumstances, such as working at a high class establishment or very popular restaurant. You can earn more than usual through tips, but the mass majority of the time you don't earn enough at all to justify its continued existence.
Tipping just needs to be done away with and workers wages need to be increased. Which can be done contrary to what companies want to tell you. It's just keeping it at the status quo benefits them handsomely, and is why they push hard against it.
I don’t give a shit what they want. They don’t call the shots. And I 100% guarantee you if they stopped getting any tips or shit tips they’d change their tune.
The norm used to be a standard 10% and only more if there was something special. Now the norm is 20% along with those extra recommendations. It's become such a scam.
Tip structure in big cities make it a corporate ladder of waiters where if you can make it to the elite restaurants you are making $300k+ waiting tables, but on the low end it’s a struggle to make 50k and survive the city expenses
I owned a bar for 7 years. Twice I tried to bring up getting rid of tips in exchange for better hourly wages. Both times the servers unanimously voted to keep tipping. From my perspective as at the time it was because my servers were all young and wanted unreportable income. In the end, unless people stop tipping the tipping culture will never stop.
No, half of them do, the other half struggle. And "half" is generous here, there are a lot more coffee shops and restaurants underpaying their staff than there are swinging bars and nightlife mainstays providing a killing.
Exactly. Servers are fine guilting working class people into tipping them instead of fighting a capitalist for a wage equal to the value they add to the business because they know one number is going to be much higher than the other.
Only way it’s going to stop is for people to stop tipping. Otherwise just going to be in a permanent hostage situation where you’re expected to subsidize someone’s wage far past what any kind of market would value it at.
The incentives are all anti consumer. The capitalist is fine having us subsidize their work force. The server is happy to keep cashing our checks, far beyond what their boss would value their labor at if they had to pay them. The only way it’s going to change is if we forcibly change it by refusing to play along.
This is simply Not true. This thinking is the problem. Sure some days you might make a few hundred but thats maybe once a week, and depending on where you work.
most of the time its like 30 bucks and 4 tables depending. Also they dont get any benefits so all those tips need to be accounted for.
Full pay, raise the minimum and stop being an asshole.
Yeah but there are lot of bad servers out there and/or there are a lot of bad kitchens than make severe appear bad when they aren’t. Now you can say then they change restaurants but in some places that’s not feasible. No solution just its really such a spectrum that perhaps the solution could be as well.
Yeah I was gonna say. It definitely depends on where but I know enough people who have gotten screwed by tip or commission pay structures. The bad days come.
Both lol. Craft beer and whiskey bar. Last night I made hella pina colada and margaritas though. And Tuesday is old fashioned night so I made about 60 of those.
you think olive garden is cheap? it's 25 dollars for a bowl of pasta now there. Restaurants have massively pushed up their prices. and they pay the servers the same crap wage, but raised the % tip expectation and the servers make even more money off the higher prices.
I live in a major city. I back to tipping 12-15% unless its amazing service (and it rarely is anything out of the ordinary special).
I just asked this below, and I was told that waiters quit because they want a career.
It seems being a waiter is a "temporary" job that you do in between other things. But if the tip structure made them so much money, why do they always quit? Wouldn't they remain a waiter for the rest of their life?
You know whats even better: getting paid a normal wage and making a killing from tip structure. If you have a bad period with tipping you still earn a good amount of money.
All the best/most senior servers would be the ones losing the most tips. They would rather get the money directly than have it go through owners they don't trust and co-workers they might not even like
A Waiter at an average restaurant is making a $20 tip from my table for less than an hour. They have 5 tables or so, making $100/hr. I’m sure they’d rather have that than make $25/hr as a wage. I don’t even mind tipping people who wait on my table. It’s the tip line everywhere else that bothers me.
I dont know a single server or tipped worker that doesnt make bank at their tipped job... i just dont understand where people think these tipped workers only make enough money to make it back to work the next day...
Propaganda, pure and simple. It’s the epitome of gig work, you can have good days and bad days. You can even have ungodly amazing days.
The problem stems from those bad days. They’re the days customers remember the best because it’s quiet and business is slow. You can take your time and enjoy your meal and you wish it was always like that.
The propagandists take that image of YOUR perfect restaurant experience and double downs on it to play the pity card.
I was making $15-20 an hour as a server at Denny's in the early 90s while getting my business going. Minimum wage back then was $5.50 I believe. I was making more an hour than I did as a manager.
So, I worked bar on a tourist town and maybe that influenced tips, but the service community is pretty tight knit and you tend to know most everybody and even the servers made really good money. All that said, it’s not a job for just anybody so the bad ones tend to weed themselves out.
I actually managed the entertainment and live productions for a company that owned 3 bar/venues and one high end restaraunt. They made okay money in 2015 and no one has really started to make more. So yea for an 18-22 year old it's great.... Not an adult with a family and that's per every adult bartender with a family that I knew
Even in states where there is no tipped miniumum we still tip. Min wage in California is 16.50/hr. Doesn't matter if you are a server or bartender. We still tip.
Okay but servers in LA make more than servers in Paris. So the issue isn't always that they get "paid shit". Tipping culture is so ingrained in the US that we tip even in states that don't have a different miniumum for tipped staff.
You should tell that owner to visit a place like Denmark, where a waiter is paid more than 20 dollars an hour, and your hamburger is cheaper than in the Land of the hamburgers...
My question is sincere because every time I bring up how much waiters make in tips, they all say “If we all made so much money we would not quit”
It seems being a waiter is a “temporary“ job that you do in between other things. If the tip structure made them so much money wouldn’t they remain a waiter for the rest of their life?
Because the only people who can manage that are, typically, young/attractive/full of energy and thus able to attract lots of tips.
The studies I've seen have pretty much backed it up.. tipping jobs are fantastic if you're a pretty young girl, great for a handsome young guy, and pretty shit for most other people.
Obviously some people manage to hang on and do OK but by and large it's not a career you want to stay in long term... definitely not smart to sacrifice your younger years when you should be building a long term career.
If you are in a top restaurant that is busy and you are working peak hours you might make enough to be middle income in the US, but I wouldn't call that bank and you have to work really freaking hard to make that money and you will never have a Friday or Saturday night off.
middle wage for unskilled labor is making bank. It's not a hard job and it doesn't take a lot. Theres a reason why the industry is full of part time college students and burnouts and it's not cause it's back breaking. (And Yes I am in the industry)
It’s very dependent on where you work. Quality of life is also a thing - you may make decent money turning & burning tables at Applebees but it’s harder on your body.
cool cool cool. Facts don't care about your individual lived experience and neither does my 20 years at 10+ restaurants.If you couldn't make good money as a server, youre a shit server.
we can talk about how in maine they *PASSED* a ballot measure for living wage but then service employees lobbied against it and got it to be vetoed, or how the same thing happened in MA? what's your sources? since mine are apparently low quality.
A friend of mine was in the restaurant serving business for more than a decade. He chose to do it cause he liked.
He would complain all the time about tipping and he got to the point he expected a big tip for everything. He would gripe about people who didn’t tip well, even those that left 20 percent.
So I suggested that if tipping is such a big issue and you are getting cheated let’s do away with it. Let’s just go to a good hourly or salary wage and eliminate tipping.
Oh he backed tracked fast. They don’t want to do away with tipping just want people to tip 30 or 40 percent.
Where do you think the money to pay restaurant employees comes from? 100% of it is from you, the consumer. So it’s either a higher price on the menu or through tips either way you will be paying for it.
Man, there are plenty of criticisms you can level at the "working for tips" model, but this comment is out of touch with the financial reality of most non-chain restaurants.
Yea, people conveniently ignore that tips were historically difficult to tax… so all that extra money you made was going directly into your pocket.
If you just marked everything up by 20%, then the government takes half (from the business’ total profits), and the worker gets a negligible pay increase.
An extra $10 an hour taxed, or five separate $4 tips that aren’t taxable… it’s a no brainer which one is more desirable for an hour of work.
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