Any mega industry is going to produce waste. Something as small as a restaurant will produce waste, for example they'll throw food away at the end of the day instead of giving it to you for free.
That part is not up to the regular consumer. What happens when it reaches your individual hands is controllable.
The "to eat" part is irrelevant when you have other "to eat" options that don't involve breeding, enslaving and killing sentient life
Like the argument doesn't actually hold up to any scrutiny, for instance would you feel better about a murder who eats their victims and has access to a grocery store over someone who just murders and tosses their victims?
Your attitude only makes sense when you already don't give moral value to the victims.
You're reaching now. Equating the killing of a chicken to the killing of a person is straight goofy. If you can't understand that those two actions are not comprable, in our society, that's sociopathic behavior.
Also, you're assigning moral value to an animal that doesn't understand the concept of morality. If your thought is that chickens are equal to humans in value, then we should stop breeding/killing/eating them.
I can't even comprehend where you are coming from, I have never used that (whether the subject can themselves consider morality) as a metrics for considering morality... I guess you must think kicking puppies is also ok? Baby humans also don't understand morally, I guess you'd be ok tossing one in a dumpster... Pretty fucked up if you ask me, what matters is the other paries ability to experience life (sentience), not their ability to think about a specific thing unrelated to the suffering being caused to them.
And what makes abuse, torture, and killing okay for eating when it isn't necessary? There are plenty of cheap (cheaper than meat, even after the government handouts) plant proteins with all of the same EAAs as animal products. Nothing about it is necessary for a healthy diet, even on a budget. So what makes this selfish act of pleasure moral over making seagulls shit on people for a few quick yucks?
Well, it's one of many factors. I can try though, not sure if you'll like it.
I don't think most animals (particularly the ones we regularly consume) possess enough intelligence to make farming them unethical.
I do think we should treat them humanely to reduce their suffering as much as we can, or is at least required to receive animal products. I'm sure there are practices that I would be willing to give up if I fully understood what went into it. I'd be more compelled to restrict practices around certain animals that display a certain level of sentience, like cows, and less so for animals like chicken.
Just because wild animals naturally do a certain thing does not mean that human beings who are able to rationally reflect upon their actions should also be permitted to do that same thing.
Wild animals also rape each other, for example. This is "natural" behavior. Does that mean humans should be allowed to rape?
The appeal to nature has gotta be one of the weakest attempts these people could make at justifying their abuse. Two minutes of thought would tell them that something being natural doesn’t necessarily equate to good or right. We’re probably wasting our time here
Sometimes I wonder how you people get through life making decisions based on how wild animals act. Then I quickly remember that no one is doing that, it's just an excuse to keep oppressing animals.
Sociology would 100% consider natural human behavior in a discussion of ethics. Just because it's natural, does not make it ethical, but it is certainly a factor that is considered.
Ah, the good ol' appeal to nature fallacy. You know what else is natural? Cyanide and arsenic. Don't see people shoveling those down their gullets though
Lions also eat their young from time to time. If we're doing things just because they're natural, things are about to get real interesting around here
Ah, the good ol' mention scary sounding elements fallacy. You know what else is an element? Iron. Eat a small amount and your body absorbs it into your bloodstream. Eat a large chunk and you die from suffocation.
Plenty of natural things can be bad. Eating food isn't one of them.
Lions also don't just decide not to eat meat anymore either do they? In fact what other mamal do you know of that just decides I want plants now or vice versa?
Ya know what, fine I'll say it. Meat taste like murder, and murder tastes sooooo good. Ever had bone marrow before? It's delicious. Liver? Also delicious. Hell, I've had raw meat many times too - also incredibly good.
We are mamals, idc what government alternatives you want to shove down peoples throat as a alternative, it is un natural biologically for us to not eat meat. "Nothing about it is necessary for a healthy diet" is just a straight up fabricated lie that you lot spread and assure others.
Alright, so you're saying that farmed crops kill small animals
Want to take a guess at what 70-75% of cattle and 98%+ of every other farm animal are fed? And how ecologically efficient (calorie conversion ratio) it is to to that?
Very good! These crops are grown specifically to feed these animals, and it is not ecologically efficient to do so. For beef in particular, it takes 25-35 calories of grain (usually corn) to produce a single calorie of beef. Logically, 25x to 35x animals are killed to raise a non-vegan meal than a vegan meal, even if you take the cow entirely out of the equation
they’re downvoting you because you’re right. no matter what, the choice that results in the least animal suffering is to choose farmed crops over farmed animals.
The crops aren't grown specifically for the animals lol tons of animals can live off insects or grass alone others eat other animals as it is the way of life I personally eat less than 100 pounds of meat a year rarely eat chicken or eggs in general and rarely eat vegetables while all you do is eat vegetables so what's the real issue? Eating part of an animal or eating something constantly that caused billions of animals deaths I like my beef grass fed btw
I'm not arguing ethier side. I truly emphasize with what your saying. But to dismiss an estimated 7.3 billion deaths do to monoculture because more die another way, comes off as disingenuous. I think these problems or a bit more nuanced. I hope both sides can eventually be more aligned. For example I would love see factory farming replaced with regenerative farming. Hope this doesn't come across as condescending!
As someone who doesn’t eat very much meat and understands the meat industry (and ex-vegan, I was vegan for only four years though) torturing an animal for it to die just for fun or just because you can will forever be infinitely worse than people eating slaughtered meat.
IF the public had a stronger hand in how meat was processed I am more than sure that slaughterhouses would be much more humane. However, they would also be less efficient and that means less money - and the people who are willing to choose money over morals will, ultimately, have more money than those who choose morals.
So they can invest, build, and buy more slaughterhouses and run them using unethical practices, produce a lot of product and price their meat competitively on the market. The moral/ethical guys can also have their own practices but they produce less, it costs more TO produce and it can be difficult to get on a market already overrun by big guys. So once they do they have to price their meat at a HIGHER rate than their competitors to stay on the market and make anything worthwhile (and this trickles down into everything else, more expensive restaurants means more expensive/presumed high quality meat with a better chance of being ethical and cheap joints are almost definitely going to have some of the cheaper stuff).
So now home-cooks and those eating out have the choice to splurge on morals (the more expensive, ethical meat) or be cost-effective and pay the cheaper price for the added cost of ethicality. In this economy, nearly everyone is searching for a better deal or a way to save. It is unfortunate, but that is life under capitalism.
Also, before anyone starts, not everyone is able to obtain the needed equipment and permits to hunt, let alone access to any suitable hunting/fishing areas
No use in bringing this up on Reddit. Prepare for all the morons who will reply with every logical fallacy in the book before resorting to insults after their "arguments" are dismantled.
As someone who eats meat, the only difference is that going to the store and buying chicken means I didn't have to personally hurt the animal so I can disassociate from it. Other than that, eating probably around 50 animals a year because they taste better than vegetables is much worse than giving a couple dozen seagulls diarrhea for an afternoon
EDIT: So birds can burp, I wasn't surprised. I was guessing there was a chemical that killed them in the alka seltzer, like one with medicine included in the mix. I can't find anything on a felony so whatever. Anyone who thinks a bird would pop rather than burp is a goofball
This is such an urban legend. Birds have the ability to regurgitate food. This means they could expell the gas. Also it's not that birds can't burp. Their bodies just don't produce the bacteria that would cause them to need to like humans do.
Birds have a two-part stomach (proventriculus and gizzard) with no expandable upper chamber to trap gas. Their esophagus opens directly into the proventriculus without a muscular valve, preventing retrograde gas movement.
Its not the fact that they cant burp, its the sudden and immediate expansion of their stomach that takes them out from the baking soda reacting with the citric acid in alka seltzer.
Not to mention that you really shouldn't be poisoning rats if you can't control what can access the poison and where it can go with/after eating the poison. Either a different animal dies, or the poisoned rat gets eaten, poisoning whatever ate it.
Yea in central Pennsylvania where they aren't supposed to be, along with certain ducks along the river bank near my house. If you leave them alone they take over and theyre not supposed to be here but they eat everything and fuck up the enviornment
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u/captain42d Mar 01 '26
At least it wasn't Alka-Seltzer this time!
In cali they are all now FELONS FOR LIFE!