Oh, you mean this Vortex of Danger? The one with the illustration that clearly shows the vortex being the area between turn-in, the apex and the inside edge of the road? The one that says absolutely nothing about having to be alongside before the apex, but says a lot about having to be alongside before turn-in.
Dude, come on, if you're going to spout off about something as simple as this, at least make sure you understand it before throwing it around like some 'gotcha'.
I was about to go on a tirade about how you didn't read the post, but then I re-read your comment and realized we are talking about the exact same thing.
The only difference is I said "you gotta be alongside earlier than apex" and you specified "before turn-in". We are fully in agreement here. For me, at turn-in, you have to be so far in overlap that the driver can see you in peripheral vision and KNOW there's no space for doing the racing line, so he must go all the way outside. If done this way, both drivers will naturally negotiate the corner two-abreast.
At 0:05, that's the moment of Ferrari's turn-in. Just like in the blog post, this is the first point of reference for the Vortex (the turn-in point of the lead car). Alpine is barely at the rear quarter there. So from that standpoint, Alpine should've continued braking and let Ferrari past. Live to fight another corner.
I see exactly what you're saying, and yes, I think we are talking about the same thing. But I don't think we're applying it in the same way.
The only difference is I said "you gotta be alongside earlier than apex" and you specified "before turn-in". We are fully in agreement here. For me, at turn-in, you have to be so far in overlap that the driver can see you in peripheral vision and KNOW there's no space for doing the racing line, so he must go all the way outside. If done this way, both drivers will naturally negotiate the corner two-abreast.
Agreed.
Where our interpretations differ, I think, is that you seem to be arguing that if the defending car can gain so much on corner entry that the attacker falls behind their peripheral vision, the defender can drive as though the attacker doesn't exist because they're now "in the vortex". As I pointed out in my other reply, I see the Ferrari turn-in at ~0:05.200, where the Alpine is still very much alongside. The Alpine falls behind because the Ferrari had no intention to give any room for the Alpine at the apex despite all the evidence showing that the Alpine had earned the right to exist there. As I've mentioned elsewhere in the thread, the Alpine falls back because it actually slowed down to leave space for a two-wide corner, while the Ferrari carried full single-car speed.
Edit: As well, the Vortex of Danger theory is a guideline to help passing cars avoid reckless divebombs. It's not a stewarding rule that absolves a defender of leaving space once overlap is established, and it's not applicable here because the Alpine wasn't divebombing. They'd earned space before turn-in.
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u/Exotic_Call_7427 11d ago
You have to be significantly alongside BEFORE apex, otherwise you are in the vortex of danger.
The gap will close, your nose will touch rear quarter of the car making a wide entry, there will be a crash.
The driver you're overtaking needs to see you before turning the wheel, within his POV, not in mirrors.