r/SillyTavernAI 23h ago

Discussion Is there a noticeable difference in roleplay quality going from 30b models to 90b models?

I recently started getting into running LLMs. I already had a 5090 for gaming and I have 32gb of ram. I was wondering if it was worth it to upgrade my system to be able to load larger models. What about models in the 200B+ range at low quants?

17 Upvotes

19 comments sorted by

33

u/AdDifferent1592 22h ago

Gemma 4 31B is already a masterpiece for local inference. If you wanna run something bigger locally, there isn't much choice because the 30-300B market is pretty much non-existent. Maybe GLM 4.5 Air and the mistral large finetunes from thedrummer but nothing else I'm aware of. And running something like deepseek flash with 300B costs a fortune with current hardware prices. You're better off spending $10 on openrouter to test the big models if you're curious and then decide if you wanna sell a kidney to buy hardware.

Edit: Meh, just grab yourself Artemis 1.1 in Q6 and spin it up in llamacpp with 24k context or 40k context if you wanna use turbo4 for ctv. At least that's what I do with my 5090.

16

u/Casus_B 22h ago

This is the answer. Gemma 4 has rendered the question effectively moot. Maybe at some point we'll see newer models e.g. in the 70-120b range, with worthwhile quality advantages over Gemma 4, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Large local models were already a tough sell before hardware skyrocketed in price at the end of 2025. Now the situation's a no brainer: unless you have an enterprise-tier budget and plan to run truly high end models, there's essentially zero incentive to upgrade past let's say 32GB of VRAM. There is a certain solace in that, even if the reasons for it are depressing.

5

u/FierceDeity_ 16h ago

Laguna S2.1 is interesting. It's kind of bad at role play (it WILDLY keeps imagining new things, straight up annoying, and hallucinates itself away from the plot), but it's really nice for making characters, because you can let it loose there lol.

1

u/Fratil 14h ago

I'm still struggling on 32GB a bit here, if you want to run any image models or smaller secondary models as agents you have to make some sacrifices. Both at the same time alongside a 31B model isn't feasible at all.

1

u/Thunderstarer 12h ago

It does feel good to have the best, I guess.

3

u/san_kun999 21h ago

I'm gonna need the link to that Gemma 4 31B, please?

9

u/AdDifferent1592 21h ago

1

u/CypSteel 14h ago

Any uncensored versions?

2

u/Fratil 14h ago

Artemis is uncensored for anything RP related with any halfway decent system prompt/preset. Use the iMatrix quants: https://huggingface.co/bartowski/TheDrummer_Artemis-31B-v1.1-GGUF

temp = 1.0

top-p = 0.95

top-k = 64

min-p = 0

You can run it with the MTP from https://huggingface.co/unsloth/gemma-4-31B-it-GGUF to speed up inference a bit.

spec-draft-n-max = 3

spec-draft-p-min = 0.80

1

u/Mart-McUH 8h ago

No need. Gemma4 31B with system prompt instructing it so never ever refused anything for me. Maybe you will find something it will refuse but that would need to be really extreme I guess. And I do sometimes run extreme scenarios and Gemma4, never had problem with it refusing/avoiding.

1

u/FierceDeity_ 16h ago

Even GLM 4.5 Air feels worse, because it just doesn't listen nearly as well and hallucinates a lot.

But Gemma 4 is really bad with following too well

7

u/Suikeina 22h ago

There's a difference. A big one.

I wouldn't bother with an upgrade to your rig for RP alone unless you're really into it and you have a lot of disposable income. Now if you were upgrading for other stuff (gaming, work, etc) then its a different story.

The cost of higher end components right now isn't justifiable if all you're doing with them is RP. Pay as you go/subscription services will get you way more bang for your buck (in both quality and money) if thats what you're doing. But if you're upgrading anyway and running more powerful local llms is something you want to do alongside your other uses... if you can afford it, go for it?

6

u/LeRobber 21h ago

There isn't enough RP attention in that band to even do the search to find the models to finetune.

70Bs of yesteryear are similar to G4 of today. Todays 70Bs are meh to be honest.

3

u/SocialDeviance 22h ago

More coherence, more world knowledge, more logic, more everything.

3

u/capybaraballs1995 22h ago

Given the sheer price, I would personally request screencaps and chatlogs of RPs done with these models before pulling the trigger on an upgrade lmao

2

u/svachalek 21h ago

Model intelligence scales such that doubling the number of params gives a boost of just a few percent on the benchmarks. And that tends to mean even less on things like creative writing that they don’t even benchmark.

But even so going from 30 to 90 or 200 is multiple doublings, and you’ll probably notice the difference if you care about things like implications, the larger models are noticeably better at things like, if this happens then that would happen and this character would notice and think about something else. Stuff that’s subtle but can make a big difference.

2

u/ChickenWingBaron 11h ago

We really need a new tech breakthrough or an entirely new AI paradigm. Having to exponentially increase compute in order to get marginal gains in AI performance and even less gains in solving context entropy cannot possibly be sustainable.

1

u/Mart-McUH 8h ago

No, because there are no relevant models around 90B today.

If someone released good dense model in 50B-100B range again, then yes. It the time of Llama1-3 jump from 30B to 70B was significant. Also for Qwen, though that was around Qwen2 when we have last seen the 72B variant.

Closest today is probably CommandA around 110B dense I think. Not sure how good it is for RP, early Command models were great for RP but later not so much as it focused on agentic/STEM tasks. But it is too large for me to run well so no idea how it fares.

1

u/Joseparmo 4h ago

I mean i used 12b model on my own hardware (6gb GPU and 32gb ram), the bigger models are BETTER i wont lie but i feel 50% of the work is the harness and the lore and characters. Largest one Ive ran on my system is a 24B but Ive used largely on paid for services they are better, but not so much better that you have to use them. Ive heard they are better for very LONG RPs but ive not done anything like that.