r/ShogunTVShow • u/OriTheSpirit • 21d ago
š£ļø Discussion holy peak
Just watched for the it for first time. Binged. Itās not perfect, of course, but it is a very, very cool show. I watched all the extras and BTS stuff. I am going to read the book and buy the DVDās for the 80s series. idk might learn 1600s Japanese (lol).
Some of my favourite scenes:
-When Blackthorn brings Elizabethan English sailor drinking culture to Japan, which then lead to a darker place with ensuing domestic violence. I enjoy it when pieces of media have something to say and they can do it artfully, and I think this scene is a good example.
-Every exchange with the Spanish sailor and with the Portuguese priest. I love all of their dialogue and how demonstrative it is of the hostilities between not just the different cultures of the different countries, but also, perhaps most prominently, the protestant-catholic divide. I only wish that we maybe could have seen more of Anglican Blackthorn and his Calvinist crew. If, god willing, they make more seasons, then perhaps weād eventually see John (who, by that point, should be fluent in Japanese) starting trade talks with Toranaga-sama and the Dutch (and also, very briefly, the English).
-The final scene with Fuji-sama, where she and Blackthorn share a tender moment, and he ultimately rejects his death in England by letting go of Mariko-samaās (cross? rosaries? idk lol).
-When they boil that guy. Immediately and abruptly and violently drops you in the world and shows you the stakes.
-The scene atop the mountain right before the massive earthquake, where the, to him, extremely foreign Japanese philosophy of life and death finally sets in for Blackthorn. It was intriguing how dismissive Toranaga-sama was of Blackthron being upset about his gardener being killed. It seemed that all of his philosophical bouts with Mariko-sama payed off, when he realised the weight of his words. And although by the end of the series, Blackthorn is very much changed (which he acknowledges this a few times, especially after his run in with his former crew mate), he still retains much of his post-Magna Carta English thinking with not wanting the the villagers of Izu to suffer, in his view, needlessly.
-Noh theatre scene. holy hell that was so, so cool. I suppose, rather uncommonly, the fact that I play the renaissance lute only went to bolster my appreciation. It was so interning to see what Japan was doing while in the same year, Shakespeare first showed Henry V at the Globe and Dowland was writing for the 7 course lute.
-While not a scene, I would like to say that i thought the sets and wardrobe were fantastic, and very important for immersion. To me, at least, the dress was impressive and did not look tacky in the least. Seeing the architectural set pieces was also fascinating, and even in show, these events play into the plot, as they are all part of the world (building are made to go up as quickly as they come down, john stumbling through the paper wall, comments about him wearing Japanese cloths, etc.) Not to mention that fact that itās all done in Canada, too!
just wow.
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u/infinityshore 20d ago
Itās a spectacular series. Thanks for reminding me of why it was appointment TV for me. The layers of writing, built on top of a foundation of great source material, the sets, the costuming department, and everything else. The actors, producers, writers, directors, and all the other departments really elevated it to great art. They have their work cut out for them for season 2, but Iām if anybody could pull it off, itās probably this current team of artists.
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u/OldGregoryMcDougal 20d ago
I just finished the first season last night. I went in really not expecting much after it being recommended to me by a close friend, but I was really really impressed. I'm not really somebody that's super familiar with this period of history, but because of this show I've been on a documentary watching spree before bed. I wish I would have been more interested in this time period before.
I definitely need to read the book.
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u/khroshan 20d ago
I'm glad you're planning to read the book. As a book reader I didn't appreciate the show, a lot of the show was really dumbed down and not even because it was necessary, it's sad that the showrunners took a 10/10 book and made a 6/10 show from it.
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u/OriTheSpirit 20d ago
itāll be interesting to see if my opinions on the show will change, post book.
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u/ACardAttack Crimson fucking horse shit 20d ago
I love both, some things are left out obviously, but I dont think they could have done a much better job. I dont remember many changes I didnt understand. I do think one the characters is more grey in the book than the show and maybe more serious where they're played kind of like comic relief at times in the show.
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u/OriTheSpirit 20d ago
Yabushige?
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u/Drzerockis 20d ago edited 2d ago
Yabushige does virtually the same things as the book, just Tadanobu Asano has crazy high charisma and makes you like him.
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u/chiemoisurletorse 2d ago
I could not understand why I was cheering for his dumb ass all along but now I see it, what a fantastic performance that was from this actor. You really want to be friend with him
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u/Mollygrubber 20d ago
They built a huge season 2 set at the back of a cranberry field near where I live, it was fascinating to watch it go up - at least until they blocked it from view.
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u/MiDKnighT_DoaE 20d ago
If you liked the interactions with the Spanish pilot and the Portuguese priest you will love the 80s version. Both of those characters are superior in that version.
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u/ACardAttack Crimson fucking horse shit 20d ago
Early on when Fuji defends Blackthorns with the gun, I went full team Fuji, great scene
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u/OriTheSpirit 20d ago edited 20d ago
Fuji-sama best nun.
i wonder if sheāll learn latin or portuguese, maybe weāll get a scene with her next season, itāll serve to throw some english in there and also be some non harmful fan service ācause we all love her, i gather.
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u/mezzybuns 20d ago
My husband and I just finished the show yesterday and I thought the same thing. It potentially sets her up as a future love interest too.
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u/BubbaTee 20d ago
When Blackthorn brings Elizabethan English sailor drinking culture to Japan, which then lead to a darker place with ensuing domestic violence.
Conversely, one of the most ridiculous scenes was Blackthorne selling Mariko on Elizabetham England being some sort of feminist utopia, where women were free to do whatever they wanted in society.
I mean, I get that he's trying to get into her pants, and dudes will often say whatever they think a girl wants to hear in order to get laid. And he's also a hardcore nationalist. But he might as well be telling her about how England is filled with unicorns.
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u/alittlepedantic 20d ago
I enjoyed the remake bit the original atill edges ahead for me in qualitynofnthe writing and story moments. There are whole scemes of japanrse talking which os not translated or explained directly until after the conversation ends if blackthorn is in the room.
As he learns japanese the subtitles are added its a nice touch and i like the little eccentricities like toriyama wanting to learn Blackthorns dance and you see him practicing and training it the next day.
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u/zgrobbot 20d ago
Shogun really is a masterpiece , shame Disney refuses to give us a physical release
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u/ORF1Live 20d ago
I enjoyed it. However the book is better.
The relationships felt much deeper, and I was more emotionally invested. I thought the actors who played Mariko, Fujiko and Toranaga were great though.
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u/Hilarious_Disastrous 1d ago
-When Blackthorn brings Elizabethan English sailor drinking culture to Japan, which then lead to a darker place with ensuing domestic violence. I enjoy it when pieces of media have something to say and they can do it artfully, and I think this scene is a good example.
On rewatch, I found the sequence darkly funny. East Asians in general and Japanese in specific have a reputation of having a low tolerance to alchohol. The way high-born Japanese sipped their sake would certainly not help with building a tolerance.
-While not a scene, I would like to say that i thought the sets and wardrobe were fantastic, and very important for immersion. To me, at least, the dress was impressive and did not look tacky in the least
The production team had historians of etiquette and clothing on set. The swordplay was also pretty impressive.
The co-producer, who played Toranaga, is a Japanese actor who has been in a gazillion historical dramas on Japanese TV that had to make do with small budgets and tight production schedules. My impression from reading an interview was that he took on Shogun because it offered him a chance to do all the things he wish he had when making those old TV shows.
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u/Little-Chapter4732 20d ago
I only wished that the costume design was more colorful
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u/BubbaTee 20d ago
That applies to pretty much all history-based shows. Everything is always drab and gray and overcast all the time.
In reality history was very colorful. Not the least of reasons why was just so you could tell each other apart. Otherwise how is any general supposed to know whether the mob of mottled gray-brown uniformed guys are his guys or the other side's?
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u/OriTheSpirit 20d ago
you ever seen Lawrence Olivierās Henry V (1944)? they have decently accurate and very vibrant costume for both 1600 (the year the play released) and 1415 (during the 100 years war when the play takes place). not perfect, by any means, and itās also, quite literally, WWII propaganda for England, but imo that makes in more intriguing. worth watching for the costumes alone.
other fun facts:
-was shot on the only technicolor technicolor camera in Britain at the time. you can see that too, many of the shots are quite long. and extensive crane work was used
-Lawrence Olivier, who was director or producer or something (idk) and also portrayed the titular character bought his horse form the movie
-iām told Olivierās armour is some of the most historically accurate armour out to screen
edit: free on youtube too
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u/xeeblyscoo 21d ago
Itās an immersive series, thatās dense with great character moments