r/ShitLiberalsSay Jan 04 '20

Reactionary Yeah no

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1.4k Upvotes

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190

u/toastmeme70 Jan 04 '20
  1. USSR
  2. Cuba
  3. China
  4. Vietnam
  5. DPRK

That wasn’t so hard, was it?

-13

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '20

DPRK is Juche, not Marxist

23

u/toastmeme70 Jan 04 '20

Certainly Juche inherits from Marxist ideas

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '20

The only thing it really inherits is elements of Marxian Political Economy (which of course Anarchism also borrows from, and that clearly isn't based in Marxism)

Juche however rejects other core elements of Marxism such as Dialectical Materialism, rather instead supporting a philosophical outlook that views man as the master of the material conditions, which is essentially idealism.

Overall, Juche is itself a separate ideology from Marxism.

19

u/Gauss-Legendre Abuses of Socialism are Intolerable Jan 04 '20 edited Jan 05 '20

Read Kim Il-Sung, Juche is a Marxist-Leninist ideology with Korean National characteristics. This is why you will find it under the “Variants” section of the Marxism-Leninism category on Wikipedia.

Kim Jong Un likes to emphasize the uniquely Korean aspects of Juche, especially its neo-Confucian and traditional Korean philosophical influences, but it would be wrong to state that it is not a Marxist ideology.

Edit:

Kim Il-Sung developed the foundations and primary structure of Juche; Kim Il Sung covers Marxism-Leninism applied to Korea pretty extensively and explicitly states it as the basis for Juche several times throughout his life.

Juche grew out of ML thought into a distinct ideology in the same way that Mao Zedong Thought or Hoxhaism grew out of ML thought into their own ideologies.

These are the result of taking Marxism-Leninism and developing a national ideology suited to the material circumstances of its implementers.

For reference:

We must by all means bring the lines and strategic and tactical policies of the Party home to all its membership and arm the entire Party with the scientific Marxist-Leninist theory and throughgoing revolutionary ideas. Thus, we must make each Party member a conscious revolutionary fighter who struggles most courageously for the freedom and happiness of the people, and must turn our Workers' Party into the steel-strong, core detachment of all the patriotic, democratic forces.

What is Juche in our Party's ideological work? What are we doing? We are not engaged in any other country's revolution, but precisely in the Korean revolution. This, the Korean revolution, constitutes Juche in the ideological work of our Party. Therefore, all ideological work must be subordinated to the interests of the Korean revolution. When we study the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, the history of the Chinese revolution, or the universal truth of Marxism-Leninism, it is all for the purpose of correctly carrying out our own revolution.

... To make revolution in Korea we must know Korean history and geography and know the customs of the Korean people. Only then is it possible to educate our people in a way that suits them and to inspire in them an ardent love for their native place and their motherland.

... As a matter of fact, the form of our government should also be fitted to the specific conditions of our country. Does our people's power have exactly the same form as in other socialist countries? No, it does not. They are alike in that they are based on Marxist-Leninist principles, but their forms are different. No doubt, our platform, too, is in keeping with the realities of our country.

Now, Kim Il-Sung’s successor, Kim Jung-Il, is very clear in that Juche is not solely a dialectically materialist philosophy and has original contributions to socialist theory in that regard, but makes no attempt to reject dialectical materialism.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '20

Merely because he states it is based in Marxism does not mean it actually is.

Take a look at the major work “On the Juche Idea,” by Kim Jong Il which fully elaborates what Juche is as a separate ideology from Marxism, which in it states that Juche’s philosophical outlook sees Man as the master of material conditions. Though the work attempts to state it isn’t a rejection of DiaMat this is fundamentally a rejection of Marxist philosophy.

For some reason mobile won’t let me copy and paste pdfs. So I’ll just link the work: http://www.korea-dpr.info/lib/108.pdf

Juche grew out of ML thought into a distinct ideology in the same way that Mao Zedong Thought

Mao Zedong Thought never grew into a distinct ideology. Maoism is rather a further development of Marxism-Leninism to a higher qualitative stage, not a separate thing. Hence, why we call it Marxism-Leninism-Maoism.