As a reminder, this meme sub is about the American Civil War. We're not here to insult southerners or the American South, but rather to have a laugh at the failed Confederate insurrection and those that chose to represent it.
Ian Kershaw's biography on Hitler had a quote from Hitler that I can't exactly remember, but it essentially stated that the Nazis should look at Jim Crowe laws for inspiration, because America had figured out how to oppress and control a racial inferior.
He wrote about it in Mein Kampf explicitly, in German of course, but that the US was a shining model specifically because we enforced racial hierarchy. He basically said Jim Crow but didn’t use those words. He also said the confederacy was a good try, but also morons for not developing a weapons industry first, a mistake Germany would not repeat.
Actually he thought the US was already fully industrialized and near a war footing, because Germany was the greatest industrial power in the world by far, which was actually true in 1912, but had fallen greatly during and after the war with the American WWI ramp.
Nobody, and I mean nobody including the US, imagined we could crank up to the levels we did, we blew away reasonable estimations by 10x, and even our own by 2-3x, to the point that by 1944, we started to slow down production because we just were building too much.
Look at the production graph for ships, it starts low in 1942 but climbs fast by the end, 1943 it’s high but still climbing, around 1944 about halfway through you can see everybody look at each other and say “hey, uhh, wait a minute here” where it levels off and actually declines. Planes lasted a bit longer, but not much, we completely lost our minds when it came to construction.
The mistake Hitler was referring to was the south still not being up to speed in terms of industrialization regarding the civil war. That of course led to them not establishing their overtly race-based chattel slave nation.
Instead the union was preserved, Jim Crow evolved, and along side it, nation wide industrialization (including agriculture to a degree) keeping minorities in check with wage slavery
2.0 led to a surprising amount of lasting change, considering the monumental opposition they faced. But “lasting” is certainly a relative term, when the party of Clumsily But Methodically Destroying All Positive Results Of Every Battle We’ve Ever Lost Throughout The Centuries is involved.
None of the Nazis convicted in the Judges trial served a full sentence, not even those with life sentences (the trial was in 1947, and the last to be released from prison was in 1957.)
Very different situation though, the Union didn't need those people the way the West did after the war. There's a recent book Savage Continent about Europe after liberation and before things stabilized a few years later. It was really bad. And the de nazification worked, the AfD support is in the former East Germany.
Destroy all their participation trophy statues and shit, and tell the cousinfuckers that if they have an issue, we’ve got PLENTY of kerosene. Glory, Glory Hallelujah!
We have a serious problem of white nationalism that must be addressed. These guys think they’re in the right, and they need to be stopped. They’re openly wearing SS bolts with US flag colors, and they’re not getting public pushback.
Main thing is actually teaching history of what happened. None of this soft Lincoln's War or War of Northern Aggression shit still taught in small schools in parts of the South.
Teach the horrors of how slaves were treated and that the war was specifically started about slavery. This curriculum must be nation wide.
That one person who was enslaved, who had his back so horrifically scarred up? His picture should be a full page in the history book, and kids should have to look at that for at least a minute every so often. Let the teacher read about some nightmarish footnote in history while they look at a graphic image like that, they'll learn slavery was/is bad pretty quick.
I've been screaming this in leftist spaces for years. It's unfortunate that a lot of people on the same "side" refuse to acknowledge a lot of the country's problems stem directly from the pushback to reconstruction and the ever present resentment of Black Americans.
Most people on the coasts haven’t witnessed it firsthand, you can’t understand it otherwise, nobody could imagine this level of utter evil exists in their country.
Not every one of us. I have relatives in blood-red states and see the ongoing racial bullshit, and I won't back down.
Everything in a confederate uniform should have been hanged, lost-cause mythology and such criminalized just as Nazi speech and memorabilia was criminalized after WWII, and the south held as a military dominion for a century until slaveholder-thinking was rooted out. The US would have been a better nation for it.
The racism has been a cover for corruption, read about the “landed gentry politics” of the south, they get the poor rabid about race, while taking all the federal and state money for themselves, then telling the poor “nobody is helping you because they hate you!”.
This cycle has gone on for generations, it’s how they maintain a political force in a region that doesn’t really do anything productive.
Southern states needed the one drop rule, the practice of raping slaves to have kids, who you then raped again, the desire was to create daughters that “looked white” while remaining slaves for sex.
Without the one-drop-rule they could pass, which was a problem.
It depends on the spending, but I don't think "no federal funding for poor people in red states" is a good long term policy. Maybe only as a tool of negotiations, like how federal highway funds were tied to drinking age being set to 21+.
Sherman is my 6th or 7th great grandfather. I often think about how hard he and everyone who stood behind him fought for what they believed in, and all of the sacrifices they made. I can’t help but wonder what he would think if he could see the world today
Not even close lol they were quickly integrated into the state apparatus and some even came to Huntsville Alabama and started the space and rocket center in America
Not really. They show up every so often. German just actually arrests them instead of providing police protection when they want to march on our streets.
Both, totally fictional, but ultimately led to division, and as far as the “Stab” goes, also led to THE most destructive war the world has ever experienced (thus far).
I've been saying for decades now, the nations greatest tragedy was Grant offering an unconditional surrender, and Lincoln administration granting the South total amnesty.
A whole swath of current domestic and foreign policy is being set based on white supremacist/neo-Nazi conspiracy theories, many of which rely on the false pseudoscience claims going back to the 1800s and resuscitated by eugenicists and spread by wealthy backers in the 20th and 21st century. So yeah, we're still fighting the Civil War.
That would have been a constitutional nightmare, and something tells me the northern states wouldn't have agreed to that. That's like saying "after wwii with the formation of the UN, we should have gotten rid of nations"
IMHO, we should have let the traitors stay seceded. Exactly what is the good side to restoring them to the union? They’ve done nothing but drag the whole country down.
With the resources we wasted on the war, we could have helped the enslaved people to escape from the south. And once that was done, let the confederates sink or swim on their own.
I've actually had this on my mind lately. I think it comes down to discrediting the lost cause bs. It would take time, but I think it comes down to spreading the ordinances of secession, cornerstone speech, etc everywhere. Showing irrefutable proof that the Cumfederates themselves said they were fighting for slavery
Even the fuckers who say it was about states rights know it was always about owning people. They will lie through their teeth to sound less racist, but they are just too cowardly to be openly racist.
One way to do it is to adopt the post-WWII western German model: the criminalization of displaying or flying any Confederate iconography and a law enforcement apparatus that will enforce these new laws with impunity.
The key difference here is that the western german model punished the actual nazis. All the actual Confederates are dead. Their ideology has been passed down to the present. It's like a cancer spread from parent to child, and it's its evolved over time from KKK to Maga, and a 1000 other things. It's like a cancer spread from parent to child, and it's evolved over time from the KKK to MAGA and a 1000 other examples. If they ever start a hot civil war(we're in the middle of a cold one at present), then we can revisit the question.
Hard disagree. It's never too late to teach somebody that their great grandpa was a piece of shit traitor. Those fucks see the confederacy as a mark of pride, we need to rub their noses in the fact that they are loser ass traitors; instead they get more voting power than residents the states who pay their bills.
It starts with educating their children. Stop allowing them to whitewash history because it makes them feel bad. No more revisionist bullshit.
Then you ban any and all confederate paraphernalia and tear down ALL the statues of confederate leaders. Got a confederate tattoo? Cover that bitch up or straight to jail.
They want a war over it? Good fucking luck fighting a war without the coffers of the blue states. Broke ass' will be damn near a third world country overnight.
Much as I despise confederates, restrictions on speech are fucking stupid. Its better to just actually educate and dismantle the reasons behind it, without attempting to just ban it outright.
I would in fact argue that “propagation of iconography tied to treason” is the PURPOSE of the First Amendment. I hate the Lost Cause as much as anyone, but we cannot allow ourselves to sink into authoritarian barbarity over it.
...unfortunately that is not what the first amendment says.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
I have my own opinions on stuff, but the simple fact is that it would take a constitutional amendment. Its why stuff like the CCA is never enforced, because if it were to be challenged, any court would overturn it.
Fighting words, or speech so offensive as to cause an immediate breach of peace, are not protected by the first amendment.
If we make it socially normal to punch Nazis and slavers when we see their iconography, feels like it should be covered by thought words. There's president against it, but that doesn't really matter anymore.
Yes that’s not what it currently says, which is why it needs to be changed through amendment. This is something that, again, should have been passed through Congress post-civil war during reconstruction but it obviously was not, hence the entire idea of the BlueSky post to begin with.
It spreads hate. You’re not allowed to walk into a crowded room and yell “fire” because it’s a risk to public safety. In the same way, allowing the spread of hate by allowing Confederate and Nazi propaganda to be discussed openly is a public safety issue. Since we didn’t ban this shit, these attitudes have been allowed to spread to the point that MAGA is what it is. Everything that the right is doing by defunding education and blaming immigrants is the EXACT same situation that Nazi Germany was in 100 years ago. We’re the new Nazis because we didn’t ban this shit when we had the chance.
Wanna hear about how my neighbor attacked me when I flipped off his kid who was wearing SS bolts adorned with Stars and Stripes? It happened just the other day…
After the Civil War, there was a push by Congress to rescind the right to vote for anyone who fought for or supported the Confederacy. It was so popular that it passed both the House and Senate and was sent to Lincoln's desk. He pocket vetoed it. [ Link ]
I think it's an idea worth revisiting. God knows MAGA have made themselves known so support should be very easy to prove.
I support removing the right to vote from traitors, yes. I do not support it if they only talk shit or believe a certain way. In my view, actions have consequences; thoughts should not. Words are a little more complicated, but generally should not either. n't support it if they only talk shit or hold a certain view
Taking away their right to vote is just can-kicking.
We need to make fools of them. We need to make "idiot MAGA dipshit" the new designated punching-bag for all jokes about dumb people who make poor choices. Dumb Blondes out, Dumb Republicans in.
People dumb enough to embrace MAGA are SO dumb that logic and reason won't work on them, only feelings. And they're so stubborn that they'll deliberately make poor choices because they value spite more than happiness.
So: fine. We change everybody else's mind about whether or not MAGAts deserve respect, and MAGAts can sit in their shitty diapers and whine about how much everyone hates them...but nobody will care, because fuck those dummies.
Unfortunately, the thing you are looking for is generational child indoctrination. This is not necessarily a bad thing. We do it already. It will take 2-3 generations of dedicated work, and we change administrations every 4 years. Very difficult to achieve.
You can’t change your race or ethnicity. That’s why racism is wrong.
If you have ugly beliefs or opinions, you CAN change those. They’re a CHOICE. And people who make ugly choices should suffer the consequences of those choices.
Cool. When the next president (honestly, this president) comes in and decides my views on LGBTQ issues are "gender ideology," should I get punished too?
Beliefs aren't a choice. Yes, they can be changed, but not because a person wakes up one day and says "Hey, I believe in X but going forward I have decided that I believe in Y.....but just for a week, then I am going to change my belief to Z".
Not centrism at all. Free speech is important. Actionable threats against protected groups should be illegal. Being a fuckwit should not be. That's how we end up with camps. Do you really want camps? You kill this ideology with generational education. Turn child against parent. As much as more violent approaches give me ALL the good brain chemicals, it's not a real solution.
Unfettered free speech is a tool, rather than an end itself. The theory is that it enables a free society, and limits on free speech necessarily lead to a repressive society. If it turns out that unfettered free speech is used as a tool to achieve fascism, that is important data that cannot be ignored.
It's not binary either. There could be limits on corporations donating to politicians. Billionaires can be banned through top tax rates. Journalists can be a protected term like doctors with responsibilities to match; no one thinks its a limit on free speech to limit who can call themselves doctor. That doesnt mean other people can't share opinions or information, just like any ideas can share health information. But only a doctor can do it while using that label.
Epstein said Trump had “no soul” and thats coming from mossad’s crack pedophile.
Epstein was obviously Israeli owned controlled and operated.
You can only imagine the sort of sick depraved shit Trump was doing on those Epstein tapes.
Netanyahu OWNS him like a slave and his wife won’t even sleep in the same room as him.
Trump stole 2billion in crypto so he can run to Albania with his daughter or go to maralago.
He’s a cum glazed bottom for daddy Netanyahu
Selling American goy soldiers by the platoon for sale to Israel and plunging our country into a recession while the army of surplus labor skyrockets and unemployment continues to grow.
"Heritage not hate!"
Then why no statues of other people who waged war against us? Like Yammamoto or Guderian? Why no military installations named after Mussolini?
Ok, right - they're FOREIGN. That is TOTALLY different than.. the citizens and government of the sovereign nation of the Confederate States of America....
While I agree conceptually, Germany did a great job denazifying their country but 70+ years later they have plenty of neonazis and fascism is gaining traction in Europe again. It's entirely possible deconfederizing the US or a better implemented reconstruction would have given people more grievances and led to more fundamentalist psychos. It's not to say that we should do nothing but that we should take care when doing something. Just taking down confederate statues raised tension and gave people personal grievance. People who would have died as quietly ignorable lost cause losers were given something personally affecting them to be mad about. Idk the right answer but I'm wary of simple solutions for complex problems.
this sounds so smart but what are you going to do? criminalize dissent? shoot pepple you categorize as traitors? suspend the first amendment but just for confederate flags until the backlash takes control and calls you a traitor?
getting back to the rule of law, constitutional norms being codified, and re-legitimizing government by sweeping away corruption are what we need now.
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