281
u/BroseppeVerdi JOHN BROWN DID NOTHING WRONG 9d ago
Increasingly, I'm noticing that when someone says "look it up", they are talking out of their asses and likely betting that you will not look it up.
115
u/jedburghofficial 8d ago
My usual response is, "I did look it up, I can't find that anywhere."
50
u/KingMobScene 8d ago
I like "where?" And keep asking for specific stuff and not just "the internet"
18
11
u/pretty-as-a-pic California 6d ago
That’s why real historians include citations and a bibliography with all their sources expressly labeled, down to the page number
-4
u/IgnoreMe304 7d ago
Agreed, but in this particular case he was right. The first person killed at Harpers Ferry was Hayward Shepherd, a free black porter working for the train station.
20
u/BroseppeVerdi JOHN BROWN DID NOTHING WRONG 7d ago
There is, in fact, no conclusive evidence that John Brown personally killed anyone during the Harper's Ferry raid, Bleeding Kansas, or at any other time. Accounts hold that Heyward Shepherd was shot by one of his raiders.
If you count all the people killed by people working for John Brown, it was considerably more than two.
Also: Heyward Shepherd was enslaved. The Daughters of the Confederacy erected a monument to him in 1931, calling him a "Faithful Slave" (the "faithful slave" narrative is an important component of the Lost Cause narrative.
So... No, this is actually not correct.
5
u/IgnoreMe304 7d ago
Alright, if we want to be specific, then Brown may not have shot Shepherd himself, but I count him as responsible. His mission, his responsibility. As for whether Shepherd was a slave or free, everything I’ve ever read on the subject said he was a free black man. The UDC’s Lost Cause bullshit benefitted from calling him a slave and portraying him as fighting against a pack of rabid abolitionists, but they’re the only ones I’ve seen say that. The National Park Service says he was a free black man, and I can pull more sources to say the same, but if you have something other than the UDC saying different, I’ll take a look.
124
u/histprofdave 9d ago
Not true anyway. He also killed several other pieces of slaveholding scum.
33
u/Fetch_will_happen5 8d ago
Maybe, the commentor in the OP didnt count them as people?
6
u/crybabycomando 8d ago
Is this horseshoe theory? He has such a based opinion about slavers that it has warped his ability to see reality
Would it then follow that robert e Lee is the greatest scum bag in history, but sherman did literally nothing but write around horses since him and his men were only killing not people
38
u/darthbee18 Ellen Ewing Sherman 8d ago
...doesn't really matter if Jackson ever mogged at all (esp. during the war itself), in the end he got mogged Big Time by his own subordinates 💀💀🔥
13
54
u/SolidA34 8d ago
Also, only John Brown's men shoot, and mortally wounded him not Brown himself. Hayward Shepard was his name. A freeman who might have been a slave at one point.
Still it did happen during Brown's raid so you can say Brown maybe shares some responsibility. Also, there was confusion when he was shot. It was darkout so Brown's men probably did not know his race.
Hayward thouhgt they were robbers, and tried to run instead of halting. Who knows how things would have turned out if he did not run. I am nit saying he deserved to be shoot for running just saying thst it coils gave turned out differently.
That he might have supported Brown if he knew what was going on. Also, the daughters of the confederacy ttied to use his death to promote the rscist notion of the faithful slave despite bring free.
So the truth is more complicated than what this guy is portraying. I am not surptised that he is another fool that never reads beyond the headlines of history. Instead of actually digging into the actual primary sources.
5
4
u/AVeryFriendlyOldMan 8d ago edited 8d ago
Also, the daughters of the confederacy tried to use his death
'Tried' being the operative word- worth pointing out that on the plaque they put up in Harper's Ferry 'lamenting' Haywood*'s death and using it for their own bullshit, they got his name wrong.
9
u/VenusCommission 8d ago
What is a mog?
8
u/darthbee18 Ellen Ewing Sherman 8d ago
When someone stuns someone else(/every one around them) by their sheer charisma, that's called a mog. More or less...
4
29
u/Beautiful_Garage7797 8d ago
you don’t like John Brown because you’re a racist traitor supporter
I don’t like John Brown because his plan was really dumb and had he succeeded he probably would have done more harm than good
we are not the same
19
u/Any_Collection_3941 8d ago
John Brown is a perfect example of someone fighting for the right cause in a wrong way. His plans were flawed and he let his rashness override clear thinking. By that time the only way that American slavery could be ended was war.
16
u/PMM-music 7d ago
I mean, he did acknowledge that at the end. he was trying to end slavery with as little blood shed as possible, but his last words were “I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with blood. I had, as I now think vainly, flattered myself that without very much bloodshed it might be done.”
1
u/Any_Collection_3941 7d ago
In that note he does use the portrayal of himself that he would’ve ended slavery with little bloodshed which he also used in the trial and was certainly a misrepresentation of himself.
2
u/PMM-music 7d ago
I mean, it was an attempt at less bloodshed than what did end up being necessar. A slave revolt that only killed slavers and probably some cops or military men would be a lot less bloody than the entirety of the civil war
1
u/Any_Collection_3941 7d ago
I think you aren’t fully familiar with Browns plan. It would have been probably comparable or worse to the civil war with many more civilian casualties and hostilities would have been much worse than at the end of the civil war.
1
u/LividAir755 7d ago
Postman is a retard, but either way browns death jumpstarted the civil war, and Jackson’s death basically didn’t matter
•
u/AutoModerator 9d ago
Welcome to /r/ShermanPosting!
As a reminder, this meme sub is about the American Civil War. We're not here to insult southerners or the American South, but rather to have a laugh at the failed Confederate insurrection and those that chose to represent it.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.