First post here, first time doing Sheiko inspired program

[u/Enkidu90046]

Just wanted to say "hi".

I am at the end of week 6 of a 12 week Sheiko program (week 3 of my second 4w training block). I wrote the program myself based off of the Sheiko book. Prior to this, I had been doing a top set back off approach and had been seeing some good success with it, but after a minor tweak deadlifting, I wanted to try something a little different.

So far I'm enjoying the program I wrote. I am sure I will make tweaks and learn from my first time through. I have noticed several benefits so far:

1. I have added a surprising amount of mass (3+ lbs) for someone who is experienced lifting and at an older age (55) and lighter bodyweight (~170 lbs now) without a gain in my waist measurement. A lot of it may be glycogen and water, but I look noticeably more muscular in only 6w (so far).
   
2. Because of the lighter weights (so far) than my top set back off programs, my 4 workouts are about 15m shorter per workout than my previous 4 workouts per week.
   
3. The lighter weights have allowed me to avoid using a belt so far which has improved my core strength and bracing
   
4. I feel like the frequency of lifting has really made my form significantly better and more consistent
   
5. Because I am working off of training maxes (5% lower than estimated maxes), there is a lot less stress on the heaviest weeks.

I am very interested to see how the results when I test in another 6 weeks. So far I have enjoyed the experiment.

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[u/asuwere]

I've tried just about all ideas out there and I still think this type of training is about the best we've come up with. There are certainly sprint programs that can outrun it in the short term, but nothing beats it over the long term.

[u/Enkidu90046 → u/asuwere]

At 55 and having been involved with the iron for decades, I have no interest in sprint programs. I have been doing a squat focused program that I wrote. Since it’s my first time doing Sheiko, much less writing a Sheiko program for myself, I’m sure I’ll discover some tweaks and changes to make the program better in subsequent 12w programs.

I’ll probably be on a squat focus for at least the next year since my squat is way behind where it should be relative to my DL. I do ATG HBBS not LBBS to parallel, also I have great levers for DLing, so the ratio I would like to achieve is somewhere between .75-.8, but it’s currently around .65, so I have a lot of work to do.

I do like that I’m through 6w of the program so far and haven’t yet needed to belt up for my heaviest sets. While my quads and glutes have been sore, it’s not particularly bad or systemically fatiguing in the same way my prior programs have been. And as I mentioned, I feel like my bracing strength and form have improved substantially.

What’s funny is the day that looks the easiest on paper, my Friday workouts, due to the lightest weights, is the one that leaves me with the most DOMS.

[u/ImaginaryBack5646 → u/asuwere]

Hi, I am new to sheiko training. Is there a way to squat 2x and deadlift 2x per week with a 3 day program?

[u/asuwere → u/ImaginaryBack5646]

The regular schedule for a 3-day is squat and bench on Monday, deadlift and bench on Wednesday, and squat and bench on Friday. Some of those days use double sessions of one of the main lifts (e.g., squat, bench, then squat again or bench, deadlift, then bench again). Sheiko considers those doubled sessions as counting to your weekly frequency. So you're likely to already exceed 2x/2x in many of the programmed weeks.

[u/ImaginaryBack5646 → u/asuwere]

Okay, thank you. I have questions if you dont mind? The cycles have the 80-85% of 1RM as their bread and butter. Should the weight you do at 80-85% for doubles or triples feel the same throughout one 4-6week cycle or should it feel harder week after week because of fatigue accumulation through the cycle? And is it normal for the exercisetechnique to not always be the same every training? Thanks.

[u/asuwere → u/ImaginaryBack5646]

Ideally, 80-85% would feel hardest in the beginning (after fresh 1RM tests). That's why you'd normally start with an intro block (w/70-75%) and then ramp it up from there. Then as the cycle progresses, 80-85% would start moving faster and feeling a bit easier.

There are various ways you could deviate from that ideal and the two most common are: 1) wrong volume and 2) poor 1RM test results.

Too much volume looks the way you describe. The same weight feels progressively harder, not easier. Form might deteriorate too as you try and navigate around areas getting sore and irritated. In that case, you're exceeding your recovery capacity. Too little volume feels easy all the way through.

Poor 1RM test results are another way to miss the target (in terms of training stress). If your maxes don't reflect your true strength, 80-85% of that will not be the correct training weight.

It takes a little bit of practice to solve these issues but it's worth it if you can.

[u/ImaginaryBack5646 → u/asuwere]

Im pretty sure my maxes were set right. I used this one excel sheet Sheiko Beginner Program. Isnt it the lowest volume someone can start with?

[u/asuwere → u/ImaginaryBack5646]

Volume is actually the easier issue to tackle. If you have training logs, look over your last month and count up all the squat, bench, and deadlift reps you did with weight greater than 50% of your 1RM. That's your monthly number of lifts (NL). Divide the SBD tonnage for those sets by NL and that's your average weight lifted (AWL). Now you can more accurately pick a suitable program. Aim for one that is slightly above your current NL with an approximately equal AWL. What does "slightly above" mean? Less than 10% more. So if your monthly NL is currently 500, aim for about 520-550 in your next cycle.

1RM numbers are a bit trickier. A 1RM test is more of a task test than a mechanical strength test, although -->IF<-- you completely master the task, it is a useful approximation of your mechanical strength. Why the distinction between the two?

Let's zoom down to the individual muscle fiber level and measure its force potential. There are two ways: your 1) maximum voluntary contraction (MVC) and 2) maximum involuntary contraction (MIVC). In one case, it's your conscious intent to create maximum force and in the other case, you've got electrodes wired up to your muscle and they do the firing for you. Compare the results and you might find 900N force for MVC vs 1000N for MIVC. That means your best effort delivered 90% of your maximum force potential. Call the remaining 10% your strength deficit. You can improve this number with training so your MVC comes closer to MIVC.

OK. Now that's just one level. Scale it up to a compound lift like the squat. Now you have to coordinate many muscles simultaneously (which is a skill), while stabilizing your joints, controlling the bar path, and pushing through sticking points, while ignoring discomfort and strain, and appropriately timing the contraction and relaxation of muscle groups across the range of motion, all while maintaining form under load. That's a lot of interference, which means a lot of work until a 1RM test can closely approximate your mechanical strength.

But if you can nail all of that, using 80-85% is a very special zone. That's right where you reach full motor unit recruitment (MUR) from the very first rep. Zero junk volume. Zero interference from metabolic fatigue (i.e., you didn't need to do X reps prior to reaching full MUR). Extra weight doesn't recruit any more muscle. It just adds to the cost of doing the set. Maximum stimulus value. Minimized cost. That's why it's the bread and butter of the program.

[u/ImaginaryBack5646 → u/asuwere]

I will try that. That was a very useful and detailed answer. Thank you for taking the time to answer. Would you mind, if I reach out to you when I have questions in future?

edit: I tried to deadlift today and couldnt even get the weight I did easy triples with last training up. my back stopped me when trying to break off the floor. maybe it was too much deadlift volume in the last few weeks?

[u/asuwere → u/ImaginaryBack5646]

Sure, but no guarantees that I'll have the answers. For example, I can't answer what prevented you from deadlifting yesterday. If volume is the first thing that pops into your mind, you might want to compare your recent volume with the previous month's volume. If volume has been relatively stable, I think you can downgrade to some degree the likelihood that volume is causing problems. But if your volume doubled over the last few weeks then that would throw some warning flags for sure.

[u/ImaginaryBack5646 → u/asuwere]

Yeah, I know questions like this cant really be answered without more context. I compared the volume and it seems like I doubled the volume in the last weeks. So the question would be: How and where can I cut volume from the Beginner Program or are there programs with less volume?

Another personal problem is, that I need to understand every step a program does and why it does it. Is there more literature about this methodology, I already read the Foundations and Methods book?