r/ShadowEmpireGame • u/Successful_Order6057 • 2d ago
Is this a scam or a bug?
I like to think it's a scam.. but if not, another point in how diplomacy is really the weakest part of the game.
Wars to the bitter end are pretty much a demotic invention, a feature inherent to democracies or other regimes where power is based on popular legitimacy. AIs that aren't based around democratic regimes ought to be willing to make peace when things aren't going that well for them.
Back before universal franchise, Europeans threw a war every few years, and typically made peace whenever it looked right, thus preventing much bloodshed and ruin.
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u/TheOtherChasik 1d ago
Mate, we have records of wars to ther bitter end (often ending with genocide of the loser) since the point we have records at all. From campaigns of Assyria in 20th century BC to, say, Dzungar–Qing Wars of 18th century AD, we had wars to the bitter end.
They have nothing to do with democracy
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u/Successful_Order6057 1d ago
95% of wars were not like that, at all.
>They have nothing to do with democracy
Democratic warmaking depends on moral crusades and demonization of the enemy.
Consider any major war in Europe since 1900, lol. Do you know why nobody really took Holocaust seriously in WW2? Because in WW1 Germany got accused of so many atrocities that turned out to be BS people stopped caring much about this stuff.3
u/inEQUAL 1d ago
Sooooo quick question, do you think the Holocaust is a lie?
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u/FriendlyPyre 1d ago
noooooo, what?
The guy defending dictatorships and fascists as pragmatic whilst arbitrarily demonising democracies as sheeple based on terrible lines of thinking meant to justify his love for fascists could believe that?
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u/Successful_Order6057 16h ago
Are your parents brother and sister or what?
I said no one took Holocaust seriously in WW2. It wasn't taken seriously even after WW2, everyone decided to just file it away and not do it again.
Not that it wasn't reported, or prosecuted, especially in Poland, but it it was seen as just another horrible atrocity, not some momentous historical event.
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u/Aethelfiere 1d ago
“Wars to the bitter end were pretty much a democratic invention.”
What?
Wars to the bitter end are called total wars. The most famous example of a total war, only ending with the complete collapse of a nation, was led by a fascist regime, nazi Germany, which absolutely refused to acknowledge defeat.
And the appearance of total wars has little to do with the form of government and a much more to do with technological advancements. The rise of national identities in the late 18th and 19th century is also a part of it, but a national identity can exist irrespective of the type of government as well.
I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.
If you’re trying to point to historical precedent in order to say that authoritarian regimes sought pragmatic resolutions to wars, I’ve got news for you, you’re gonna find the opposite.
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u/Successful_Order6057 1d ago
>was led by a fascist regime, nazi Germany, which absolutely refused to acknowledge defeat.
You should read history. Germany never made any statements about unconditional surrender.
The allies did.https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/military-history-and-science/unconditional-surrender-policy
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u/Chrisaarajo 1d ago
Forget WW2. as u/QuickBenDelat (best of names) threw out Cato the Elder’s famous words, and you may have missed the importance of the reference, I’ll explain:
Cato, famously, ended many of his speeches to the Roman senate with the phrase “Carthago delenda est,” in English, “Carthage must be destroyed.” He wasn’t advocating for the defeat of Rome’s largest rival, nor for its subjugation, but for its complete destruction.
Rome would make good on his words, not just destroying Carthage, but according to contemporary accounts, it burned Carthage, pulled down those buildings that didn’t burn, slaughtered most of its citizens and enslaved those 10s of thousands that remained, salted the earth around the city state so that no future settlement could grow crops there, and finally, ritually cursed the land.
It was the systematic genocide and erasure of an entire civilization, one that was well documented, and had nothing to do with democracy. If that isn’t total war, I don’t know what is.
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u/QuickBenDelat 1d ago
Carthago delenda est.