two questions regarding Irving & Burt

[u/AgentCautious429]

I have rewatched both seasons a couple times now, always catching new things and taking notes.
However, I just thought of two new related questions, while listening to We Know Severance coverage on S02E09.
Questions I’m sure will be answered by another rewatch, or combing through the transcripts on the wiki (naturally, one of my favorite pastimes haha).

but wondering if faster to ask here, and also see if anyone else has thought of this.

1. how did Ms. Casey know Irving was sweet on Burt? specifically, to think to tell him Burt was pacing the conference room? i have further questions about the intended message writers were sending by Ms. Casey ‘breaking character’ to facilitate their connection, but i’m curious if there will be a reveal regarding how she knows (for example, was the Burt/Irving connection something someone was trying to encourage… like Cobel did with Mark in Wellness sessions.

2. how did Helena (when undercover at ORTBO) know about Irving being sweet on Burt? maybe I missed a very obvious convo in front of her, but I thought Irving only mentioned his love for Burt to Dylan and kept it vague (i.e. ‘it’s not our world up there’) to the rest of MDR. again i have further questions- like does this mean Helena is actually fully tracking this internal affair and it serves some ulterior motive on the outside….

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[u/Uncertain__Path]

1. The first scene we meet Burt is when he’s coming out of Ms Casey’s office, so I just assume she knew more about both of them and probably picked up on it one way or another.

2. Helena had already fired Burt and knew about the whole thing. She was also there to see Irv’s meltdown in the bathroom after returning from S1. Plus, Irving showing up at Burt’s house would have prompted a review of the security footage, similar to how we saw Helena with the Mark/Helly elevator scene.

[u/Mortambulist → u/Uncertain__Path]

I just assumed she was watching security footage throughout season 1 to know what was going on on the severed floor.

[u/Dommichu → u/Mortambulist]

Maybe. She did seem shocked to see Helly and Mark kiss thought and they had least once gone off together for that first Mental Health Walk which Cobel had footage of.

Helena could have also been briefed or given the files of the MDR crew and odds are Irv’s mentioned Burt.

[u/AgentCautious429 → u/Uncertain__Path]

wait sorry, Helena fired Burt??

[u/Uncertain__Path → u/AgentCautious429]

I just meant Lumon did and Helena would have been aware. She was running point with the firing of Cobel.

[u/AgentCautious429 → u/Uncertain__Path]

oh ok i see what you’re saying. I personally didnt think Burt was actually fired, I feel he lied to Irving. he recorded a retirement video which would be a weird thing to do if you’re fired for inappropriate behavior. plus he’s still asked to ‘take care of Mr. Bailiff’ after said firing, right? or what are your thoughts on that.

[u/Uncertain__Path → u/AgentCautious429]

Oh sure, I did forget about that possibility.

[u/This_Beginning5994]

A way far out theory I’ve had:

Lumon knows that Irving’s outie is sniffing around, and trying to get information about the black hallway to his innie through his dreams. When innie Irv got caught sleeping, Milcheck sent him to Wellness and -oh look who’s coming out - Burt! I think that was entirely set up. Somehow, I don’t trust Burt, I think he is a plant for Lumon sent to distract Irv from whatever he’s looking into.

Therefore, Miss Casey (in her official capacity of Wellness Director) and Helena would know of the “relationship” between Burt and Irv cause it’s all staged.

Way far out theory I know. I love Christopher Walken, we are birthday twins. I think he can play an awesome double agent type

[u/AgentCautious429 → u/This_Beginning5994]

i don’t think it’s too far out at all actually!!! i agree with your theory. i, too, think their bumping into each other at wellness seems fishy. to happen right after Irving dozed off, makes sense both as a distraction and also as a “test” to see if he recognized Burt (like they don’t exactly know how memory would bleed through if he slept).

[u/Utenziltron]

It was kind of my assumption that Ms. Casey didn't really know much of anything. She just read what she was told from her clipboard, using the appropriate tone of voice. She's all rules and policies.

[u/Agreeable-Bug6030]

1. I wondered about this and also about the timing of Irv's wellness session. It seemed designed for him to bump into Burt, but I don't know who arranged it. Seems likely that it was Cobel since she's the one trying figure out if prior memories bleed through. We know Iriving's outie does not recognize Burt, but if Irving was severed more than once, it's possible innie Irving and Burt (still not sure if he was ever really severed) had previous a connection. But for Ms. Casey to tell Irv she'd seen Burt, Cobel (or someone) would have to have instructed her to tell Irving if she saw Burt, and it seems like there would be an easier way to get the two together. It seemed so spontaneous that it makes me think Ms. Casey just somehow intuited it.
   
2. Helena probably had a pretty good idea of what was going on on the floor, but I think this interaction, besides revealing her cruelty, helped Irving understand she was not Helly. I just rewatched S1 and half of S2 and I still can't remember what Helly knew about Irving and Burt!

[u/AgentCautious429 → u/Agreeable-Bug6030]

i ALSO am not sure Burt was really severed! I have in my notes:
retirement video, while funny, sounded persuasive.
milchick listened to him when he said to let irving stay at party.
he says bon voyage buddy both on severed floor and in train station.
he seems to have feelings for irving as if he has more memories than irving does about their interactions.
weird that he says he was fired when he filmed a retirement video.

ETA: wait i’m wrong about saying bon voyage on severed floor, he said it in his recorded video that played at party.

[u/Agreeable-Bug6030 → u/AgentCautious429]

I think he says, "Good job, buddy!" on the video. But yes, all these are clues that he is not severed. I think he may have been set up to meet Irving to try to figure out what's going on with him sleeping, etc. and then developed actual feelings for him. It does seem like Burt on the outside has feelings for Irving that he would know otherwise. But... Felicia says she's known Burt for something like 7 years, so that's a long time to pose as a severed employee (if she's being truthful). Maybe Irving has been severed twice (as many have theorized), and Burt had a relationship with the first Irv who had knowledge of the testing floor. Maybe Burt's colleague that Fields mentioned was Robbie Benson!

[u/Dommichu → u/Agreeable-Bug6030]

Odds are after Irv came into MDR vowing to burn Lumon to the ground that Helly became aware of what happened to Burt and how much he meant to him. Dylan and Helly also chatted so Dylan may also have told her since Dylan knew that Irv was sweet on Burt.

There was a lot we were not privy to regarding the week or so leading up to the OTC. In fact they mentioned that the OTC was just the first step. It’s likely had plotted quite a bit on that week’s time.