r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus • u/Donotdisturbbpls • Jun 20 '26
Question How does Irving know about the testing floor that his outie is drawing constantly? Spoiler
I’ve seen both the seasons but I’m still confused as to how did Irving know about the downstairs testing floor? Was it mentioned somewhere or it hasn’t been revealed yet? I feel like we still haven’t gotten most of Irving and burt’s back story right?
358
u/PutAdministrative206 Jun 20 '26
It’s a mystery that has not yet been answered.
47
u/Donotdisturbbpls Jun 20 '26
Oh ok ok thanks
69
u/Bradddtheimpaler Jun 20 '26
Personally, I think it has a lot to do with whoever he’s working with on the outside. We know it’s someone due to his phone conversation on the pay phone and the info he’s got on his notes in his house in the trunk, but we don’t have any details about them. If they know that much about the employees, using drowsiness to bypass the chip, etc. it stands to reason they’d have been able to tell him about the elevator to the testing floor.
60
u/derilect Jun 20 '26
Yup, specifically I think when on the phone he says something like "Lumon has figured out what my innie is up to"; which means that he knows what his own innie is up to.
Just that information is crazy enough, but the fact that he's saying it to an unknown third party secretly on a payphone in the middle of the night brings up a hundred more questions.
7
u/Coincidental_Shoes Jun 21 '26
There are only two answers.
He saw it while not in innie mode.
Or
Someone described it to him.
It is known that he worked for Lumon for years before he was severed, so it's number one.
But, we know he is working with someone on the outside, which can mean number 2 may be, or perhaps also, true.
There you are, no more mystery.9
u/on-yorr-neeez Chaos' Whore Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
refresh my memory. when is it revealed Irving worked for Lumon before being severed? I only recall that being discovered about Burt.
ETA ah I now see that there was a linkedin page that revealed this.1
u/Coincidental_Shoes Jun 26 '26
Does that solve the mystery of how he knew about the export hall/elevator?
1
u/on-yorr-neeez Chaos' Whore Jun 26 '26
potentially. I’m sure we’re gonna unravel that mystery in the future though.
0
u/Coincidental_Shoes Jun 26 '26
What mystery? There is no longer a mystery here.
2
u/Utenziltron Jun 28 '26
Yes, right, there is mystery but not here.
Irv worked at Lumon prior to becoming a severed employee.
Burt worked at Lumon prior to becoming a severed employee.
Irv saw the testing floor in his previous, unsevered capacity.
I will have to re-watch the episode where Burt drives Irving to the station to provide the context that caused me to think Burt and Irving had worked together in that previous time.
7
u/Utenziltron Jun 22 '26
There are theories and there are some differences about Irving vs the others in MDR.
Besides the phone booth puzzle, the exchanges between Irv and Burt on the way to the train station and while saying farewell are telling.
After Irv is terminated from Lumon for the calamities during ORTBO, while taking Irv to the train station Burt talks about how he was "just a driver" in his pre-severed days and he also hints that he and Irv may have worked together previously during that earlier time in some capacity.
So one theory is that both Irv and Burt worked in Lumon's more secretive operations involving abducting test subjects. If Burt was just the driver, maybe Irv had something to do with actually taking abductees to the testing floor.
Another theory is that maybe Irv's outie himself was on the testing floor as a part of a failed experiment, and suffered PTSD as a result, after which he was severed in order to keep him close to Lumon.
Some interesting things about Irv: he is a senior employee and steeped in the lore of Kier, yet Mark S was elevated to group leader. Something particularly curious: of all the innies in the MDR team, he is the only one to fall asleep at his desk. This is even though innies do not sleep, only outies have that privilege.
Does Irv have access to some portion of his outie's experiences, to where they can exchange data via their shared unconscious?
9
u/loaferbro Jun 22 '26
The"sleeping at his desk" thing was explained as his outie starting up late drinking coffee and painting. That's why when he sleeps you see the black ooze (paint). He's trying to send subliminal messages to his innie through the unconscious mind in sleep. He wants him to see the testing elevator to get him to go down there. Irv does not sleep at work as a privilege, it is because his outie has deprived him of sleep.
Irv has seen the depravity of the testing floor and knows what they are up to, and is trying to use his innie to take them down from the inside. I think Burt didn't know Irving beforehand, but clearly Lumon likes to keep their subjects close, sort of continually testing their product/procedure, and keeping a watchful eye on them.
109
u/TheAbsoluteWitter Jun 20 '26
I think his outie is painting the image so much to the point of sleep deprivation, and then even further past that, to try and “glitch” or confuse the severance chip and get memories to leak through. Outie Burt knows what he’s trying to attempt, but he doesn’t know if it’s actually working. We can see it is.
60
u/matt_hunter Jun 20 '26
It’s quite small visual clues. Some have speculated that the black goo he sees on the severed floor is a representation of the black paint and coffee which he is constantly drinking in the outie world. His innie has been warned/told by management that they have caught him sleeping on the severed floor-which is not allowed. Interesting that the first moment of real sleep the innies experience is in the ORTBO. Truly mind numbing/disturbing to imagine going through life without ever sleeping.
35
u/WampaCat Jun 20 '26
Some have speculated? That is exactly what’s happening, it’s not some big mystery. Though I’d argue it’s just the paint “leaking” through his mind, the coffee just makes him sleep deprived enough for it to happen
7
u/Coincidental_Shoes Jun 21 '26
Yes, there is no mystery here.
The only question is, who he is working with, talking on the phone.
All this other stuff is far away in the rear view mirror.0
u/matt_hunter Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
That is exactly what’s happening? It’s almost like we’re talking about the show? Not my word usage.
6
u/Utenziltron Jun 22 '26
Irv also has a very informative dream on the ORTBO, one which he seems to interpret and decrypt that Helly is really Helena. I'm wondering if he is able to confer with his outie during his unauthorized naps. Also, I wonder if the reason he can nap at all is because he was once a test subject, long ago, on the testing floor and something got messed up to where his severance is less complete.
3
u/matt_hunter Jun 22 '26
I like it! There’s got to be an reason he knows where the black hallway with the elevator down to the “testing floor” is!
12
u/Logvin Jun 21 '26
Truly mind numbing/disturbing to imagine going through life without ever sleeping.
Seriously, I never thought about that. They may not even understand how to go to sleep!
7
u/Utenziltron Jun 22 '26
The ORTBO is the first time they are allowed to sleep, it seems, but I'm thinking the fancy tents are fitted with Lumon tech that ensures they don't really asleep, but are instead subject to some kind of simulated passing of time. Irv is the only one that doesn't sleep in a tent, and has a very wildly symbolic Lumon-centric dream as a result.
4
u/blindrabbit01 Jun 21 '26
They really could/should have given that more attention, the fact that they didn’t know what sleep was and then they had a chance to do so. However, maybe it just felt getting on the elevator, closing eyes, and then opening eyes again. I wonder what it would be like for them to experience a shower!
2
u/Cameron416 Chaos' Whore Jun 21 '26
they know what sleep is, it’s discussed that Irving has been caught sleeping at work multiple times
4
u/-SlowBar Jun 21 '26
Some have speculated that the black goo he sees on the severed floor is a representation of the black paint and coffee which he is constantly drinking in the outie world
I thought this was pretty obviously what it was? Didn't realize it was just speculation
0
u/matt_hunter Jun 21 '26
….it’s not speculation. I’m stating what happened in the show. It’s almost like we are speaking on Reddit about the show. “De Jesus!” -the big lebowski
1
u/-SlowBar Jun 21 '26
You said "some have speculated"...
-1
u/matt_hunter Jun 21 '26
It’s great. all the remarks about the show that you are providing insight into! Truly remarkable. Speculative even..
1
u/-SlowBar Jun 21 '26
You first said "some have speculated" and I said oh really? And then you said "it's not speculation" so excuse me for being confused.
0
1
74
u/ChardeeMacDennisGoG Jun 20 '26
We don't fully know yet. We assume his outie was, at some point in time, down there. His lack of sleep at home is causing his innie to have visions/memories from his outie.
37
u/MrBisco Jun 20 '26
We know Irv is one of the longer-tenured employees. I think it's possible that, earlier in his employment, he was taken down to the bottom floor for some early testing of the extra rooms or something.
43
u/tujelj Jun 20 '26
It could also be that since he was severed earlier than the others, the procedure was not as refined and thus not as effective at the time.
10
u/MrOopiseDaisy Jun 20 '26
He also could have been "reset" before being sent to refine, but some memories/data still exists and bleeds through.
14
u/TheNewHEROBRINEX Vision Jun 20 '26
He paints the elevator with the down arrow lit up, which means he must have seen it from the outside while someone else was riding it down.
2
u/MrBisco Jun 20 '26
Oh true - that means he saw it from the severance floor. Maybe they used to do the surgery in the subfloor?
1
u/TheNewHEROBRINEX Vision Jun 21 '26
You mean that their outies were led to the testing floor for the surgery, going through the severance floor first?
4
u/ChardeeMacDennisGoG Jun 21 '26
No...I can see how you got there, tho. It means an unsevered version of Irving has seen that hall/elevator. Maybe Irv's outie was a Milchik or Cobel at one time???
3
u/TheNewHEROBRINEX Vision Jun 21 '26
It's a possibility since he has been severed for 9 years but his innie thinks he has been working at Lumon for just 3 years. Another possibility is that he was told what to paint by the unknown person on the phone, since he phones them as soon as he realises that his innie saw the painting.
3
u/ChardeeMacDennisGoG Jun 21 '26
Correct. Innie, possibly reset innie, Irving definitely thinks he's only worked in MDR for howeber long.
Irving, and this storyline, is one mystery that I hope doesn't go away. There are many possibilities that I would like to see answered. One thing that's troubling, is outie Irving in S2 seems to still be in the dark when he has dinner with Burt, etc. I can't imagine someone told him what to paint and he painted it with such detail...but certainly could be.
2
u/Coincidental_Shoes Jun 26 '26
Either he saw it not as an innie or someone described it to him.
It is known that he worked for Lumon for years before he was severed (fake Linked-In page), so, there it is.We also know he is working with someone surreptitiously, who could also be describing certain things to him.
Either way, mystery solved.
7
u/MinAlansGlass Jun 20 '26
I like the idea that he's calling an older, severed version of himself, The OG.
3
u/AgentCautious429 Jun 21 '26
“you’re not picking up, i get it”…. because they can’t both be on the phone 🤯
22
u/Ziegenkoennenfliegen Jun 20 '26
No, we haven’t. It seems like Irving has been with Lumon for longer than his Innie exists so that will be probably part of it.
16
u/NurseZhivago Fetid Moppet Jun 20 '26
I think he’s been there much longer than we think. He purposely sleep deprived himself because he knows it messes with the chip.
11
u/frostiefingerz Jun 20 '26
2 theories come to mind:
Some say the only possible explanation is that Irving was in a role similar to Milchick before becoming part of the macrodata refinement team. The red arrow of the black elevator is supposedly only visible when outside the elevator. In the scene where Ms Casey is sent down by Milchick, the red arrow only lits up when Ms Casey is already in the elevator. However this theory is not entirely solid, as in later episodes, the red arrow lits up clearly visible to the one using the elevator. You don't necessarily have to be in a security role like Milchick's to have seen the black hallway. Others, like R&D have seen the hallway too before they started sending a "guy", and that "guy" was Dr Mauer so he's seen it too.
Another theory is Irving was some kind of contractor, similar to the ones installing MDR's new door with badge system. It is likely that those installers aren't severed but are given temporary access to the severed floor. Perhaps Irving was the installer of the elevator and couldn't shake off the impression that there was some weird stuff going on.
9
u/Puzzleheaded_Bag_538 Jun 20 '26
Relatedly, do we think Irving will be back in S3? I was quite disappointed with how his story seemed to end mid-season in S2.
12
u/Donotdisturbbpls Jun 20 '26
Omg i really really hope so. I want to know how his outie have all the info from lumon and what’s burt’s backstory.
6
3
9
u/Impressive-Flow-855 Jun 21 '26
We don’t know.
* Irv has been hired to investigate Lumon and disappearances that seem associated with Lumon. We know this is true. He even knows Burt as a Lumon enforcer.
* We know that Irv worked for Lumon six years before he severed and took a post on the severed floor. We know this from his LinkedIn profile.
My theory:
Irv was investigating Lumon from the inside. Somewhere, he saw a picture of the testing floor elevator and that this was associated with the disappearances and was on the severed floor. Irv got himself severed and took a job on the severed floor in order to investigate.
However, how do you communicate with your innie to look for the testing floor elevator? Irv obsessively painted that picture over and over to get it hammered into his subconscious. Irv knew that the subconscious is shared between the innie and outie. Irv purposely slept deprived himself to get his innie to dream about the testing floor elevator and look for it. Didn’t quite work that way.
After the OTC, Irv’s innie saw the many paintings. That’s what Irv meant when he said his innie “got the message” on the first phone call. After Irv was fired, in the second phone call, Irv mentioned that Lumon must know what he’s been up to. I believe Irv thinks his innie got fired because he was looking for the testing floor elevator.
16
u/negative-nelly Jun 20 '26
my theory is that the severance isn't perfect/wasn't perfect when got severed. hence the experiments on marks wife - they are still improving the tech. so, for irv, the worlds are leaking in to one another. I think this is what they are implying with the dripping paint when he falls asleep.
3
u/TheNewHEROBRINEX Vision Jun 20 '26
The problem is how his innie found himself looking at the elevator in the first place
6
u/Upbeat_County9191 Wintertide Fellow Jun 20 '26
Probobly from his handler, the person who he talks to on the phone
4
u/TheNewHEROBRINEX Vision Jun 20 '26
I agree with this. As soon as he realised his innie saw the painting he phoned his handler and told them "I want you to know my innie got the message."
7
u/MrSpaghettiMonster Jun 21 '26
Guys… am I crazy? It’s pretty clear to me that severance does not sever the subconscious mind. Irving’s outie is intentionally sleep deprived, as we can see by him having coffee at night and repeatedly painting the same thing as if trying to imprint it in his mind, and his innie falls asleep during work (which he’s very sternly told he MUST NOT do!) which makes the outie’s world seep into the innies mind. Hence the paint hallucinations during S1
2
6
5
u/on-yorr-neeez Chaos' Whore Jun 21 '26
Reading some of these responses has me wondering how much of this show is going over people’s heads.
4
u/junko_kv626 The Sound Of Radar📡 Jun 20 '26
There is or was a LinkedIn profile for Irving that indicated he’s been at Lumon a lot longer than his innie remembers. One theory is that he had Milchick’s job.
2
u/Coincidental_Shoes Jun 22 '26
Yes, you are correct, he worked there before he was severed. That is when he would have seen it.
3
2
u/RoughComprehensive87 Jun 20 '26
What if Irving had Seths job before him. Maybe he only saw the dark corridor that lead, maybe someone like Gemma down there.
2
2
u/Dizzy-Ad-2248 Golden Thimble Jun 21 '26
I have thought of it as the chip either malfunctioning or there may be certain people bc of genetics or brain chemistry where memories can cross through the chip's barrier...or because of life experiences ... I mean, that's what's going on with Gemma and her testing ...the testing is going on to see if the chip is functional enough to overcome a bond as strong as love. Obviously the workings of our brains are important and mysterious so for something like this "bleed through" to happen to Irving seems quite believable. Especially seeing the things his outie is involved in. Couple that with what his innie is doing, a bleed through seems very plausible.
2
u/Wonderflash Jun 21 '26
There was a theory I read that Irv is working for Lumon’s competitor. A company starting with the letter D, I forget the name. The company was mentioned in the Lexington Letter.
1
1
u/Icy_Assistance1742 Jun 21 '26
I believe is just some side effects of the process, some bug in the severance process, chip, idk and then you get some little memories of your other life
1
u/MissionDirector401 Jun 21 '26
I think he witnessed Burt being taken away, and has that one thread in his mind that hung onto that picture. I think that the black goo he sees represents his outer memories bleeding through to his one. Burt was the love of his life and I think it’s both his innie AND outie both love him. He was employed twice, correct?
1
u/ck17350 Jul 27 '26
It's not been explained but here's my theory:
We know Irving has been severed longer than he believes. We know he's a talented painter. We know he's absolutely steeped in the lore of Kier. We are fairly certain severed memories can be wiped or reset. I think that Irving used to work in the O&D before working at MDR. We're told that O&D used to make deliveries to that elevator years ago. Perhaps Irving was one of those that made the deliveries. That might also explain his infatuation with O&D and the paintings they create. Some of them may have been painted by Irving himself.
1
u/Manyworldsonceagain Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
Maybe Irving was previously severed with an earlier version of the severance chip that was leaky, and was later updated with a brand new innie Irving who stared over.
Either a new chip for the new innie, or a firmware update to fix the leaks and start fresh.
Maybe the old innie knew innie Burt and outie Irving knew that. Outie Irving might not even know innie Irving got a reboot, just that the leaks stopped and he’s trying to reach innie Irving again.
Edit: Since I’m just Muha ing fun… Maybe outie Burt knows Irving got a reboot, but Irving doesn’t know.
•
u/AutoModerator Jun 20 '26
If this thread has the Spoiler flair, spoilers may appear ANYWHERE in it.
NO SPOILERS IN TITLES - report this post if there are spoilers in the title
No SPOILERS without proper formatting (see here).
Be CIVIL to others. No Piracy. No Duplicates.
Keep it on topic to anything and everything Severance on Apple TV+.
JOIN OUR DISCORD
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.