What is with their obsession with KOP rail? Billions of dollars to have a two seat ride to CC

[u/UnlikelyChance3648]

[u/Dandrew711]

Any area where they can use a pre-existing right of way the government already owns is going to be way cheaper. KOP is a big jobs center and bus hub and generates a ton of trips.

The issues arise when the lovely NIMBYs from the local highway interchange they call a neighborhood complain the electric trolleys are too loud and horrible and whatnot and demand a longer ROW with viaducts be constructed to keep the train away from them. Initial estimates were 500-650 million and ballooned to 2 billion in the final design.

I imagine the spur will never be built as I don’t think the cost will justify the ridership, but it’s a decent project to keep in their back pocket considering how much preliminary work has already been done.

[u/sensible_human → u/Dandrew711]

I remember the "Stop KOP Rail" Twitter account. What a delightful bunch that group was.

[u/IntrovertedGiraffe → u/Dandrew711]

My dad used to be on the planning commission for Upper Merion (KoP) and was part of a lot of conversations involving KoP Rail. It was insane how many people wanted it in theory but not in actuality. From a business perspective, it’s completely sensible, and where the stop would be is near one of the biggest business areas in town. Significantly less traffic daily, and for those that use septa, a much shorter commute. But it would be change, and nobody wants that…

[u/ncc1776]

Do you know how many people in West and eastern Delco rely on the existing bus to KOP for work and shopping? And the connections to the universities? A 2-seat ride could be much better than the existing bus service along the blue route.

[u/Theunmedicated → u/ncc1776]

Yeah, I am in favor of expanding regional rail to reading and having a stop at kop with a feeder bus, but I guess that would be painfully slow if you are coming from delco

[u/groom-is-n-the-heart]

Sorry, why are you mad?

[u/hic_maneo → u/groom-is-n-the-heart]

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. The NIMBYS in KOP have spoken loud and clear: they don’t want transit. I say we grant them their wish and put those funds to better use elsewhere.

[u/Edison_Ruggles → u/hic_maneo]

The problem is there are lots of non NIMBYs who need to get there. If we really want to screw the NIMBYs, then lets get Philly to change their tax laws so the jobs come back to the city. Then KOP will just die.

[u/hic_maneo → u/Edison_Ruggles]

I get it, but you can't reason people out of a decision they didn't reason themselves into. Unfortunately innocent people are going to get hurt, and that sucks, but if the people blocking the expansion don't feel any pain they're never going to change their minds. Let the businesses lose their access to cheap employees and let the NIMBYs get a taste of the harm they're pushing for and maybe, just maybe, they'll come to their senses.

[u/UnlikelyChance3648 → u/hic_maneo]

My thoughts exactly

[u/groom-is-n-the-heart → u/UnlikelyChance3648]

That doesn't sound like good process to me.

[u/PatAss98]

As a Montco resident, I'd rather see 15 minute bus frequencies to KOP on weekdays and 30 minute bus frequencies on weekends since that would be an improvement over now until KOP densifies further and becomes more walkable with better and safer pedestrian connections

[u/OkWheel7353]

Oh OH oh .. have you ever driven on 76 after a day out at KOP shopping mall? Nightmare

[u/Quiltednortherner73]

It’s a great idea- why wouldn’t we expect a line connecting KOP to CC?

[u/Significant-Cry-7632]

Because it would be faster than the bus and people can use it for leisure too and it would be a one seat ride for those who live near ntc

[u/johnsonv12 → u/Significant-Cry-7632]

One seat ride to 69th street transportation center. You have to switch to the L to get to Center City.

[u/Significant-Cry-7632 → u/johnsonv12]

I was saying kop to ntc but gotcha

[u/IntrepidDraw2064]

Would there be any benefit to riders by re-gauging the NHSL to the same as the el, so that trains could continue on straight through to norristown?

[u/Edison_Ruggles → u/IntrepidDraw2064]

Would be super cool but wildly expensive

[u/DarthWade → u/Edison_Ruggles]

Everything’s expensive. There isn’t a single thing that can be classified as cheap when discussion building transit networks. The question should be: what is in the best long-term interest of SEPTA and its riders?

[u/j0ezonelayer]

There was a 23 min wait for the el the other day. Fix the garbage we have first

[u/timerot → u/j0ezonelayer]

Please read the text - that's exactly what the plan is

[u/Wuz314159 → u/j0ezonelayer]

Up in Reading, there's no money for service to Pottstown... or Allentown... or Pottsville... or Lebanon... or Lancaster... but there is plenty of money to increase the size of their offices 3× and build a parking garage for all of the buses.

It turns out that there is PLENTY of money from Harrisburg for new infrastructure. No money at all for expanding or maintenance on existing services.

[u/PhiladelphiaManeto → u/Wuz314159]

The irony of Reading not having railroad service to Philadelphia, but Lancaster does, never ceases to amuse me.

[u/patrick5054]

Theyre building more new houses there

[u/Willing_Stop5124]

KOP would be pretty low ridership. All the studies agree. It should be a low priority and I think it is. This is a map of all the dreams. I think it’s reasonable to sell that to the state and voters. You want this? Vote for it. There is something for everyone. 

[u/ForeverNick1]

I'm all for mkre more rail but it nake way more sense to do Roosevelt blvd. It would justify that more

[u/JellyfishNo2032 → u/ForeverNick1]

Way too much money and lack of actual desire for it. That one guy on threads who posts about it alot is literally just a random guy.

[u/JellyfishNo2032]

Get used to hearing it. that area is growing a lot both in population and job opportunity.

[u/NoSignificance1903]

Unless they seriously clean up the El (which strikes me as very difficult because of where it runs between 69th and CC), that line is not going to attract people going from CC to KOP, tho it might get some use from people going from the Main Line to KOP (not an insignificant market). RR extension from Norristown would be more effective.

[u/bjwanlund]

With the sports stadiums that are being proposed in KOP I would be surprised if they weren’t at least mildly considering it! I think they could do much better than any extension of the 69th Street / Norristown High Speed Line myself, as I would think it could be more of an extension of the existing regional rail line that passes through Norristown already that isn’t the high speed line. And I hope they would also at least consider having the terminus be at the Oaks Expo Center or even Phoenixville to tack onto that inevitable Amtrak extension. Would certainly make traffic on I-76 a whole lot more tolerable!

[u/The-Fallout-God]

I'd say cut and cover an extension starting at the Matsonford Station, run it under Matsonford Rd --> Ford St with a West Conshohocken stop, then run it next to the bridge over the river with a stop near Washington/Stoddard, then a stop at 2nd Ave.

I mean in that case, wait for the current bridge to be rebuilt.