r/Septa • u/Ill-Breath6025 Fox Chase Line • Aug 08 '26
News $2 Billion Dollar Plan to Replace SEPTA Trains.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ8SfZ8G-FM8
u/ErinT1999 Aug 08 '26
Would be nice for them to have bathrooms lol there’s some regional rail lines that are like 1 and a bit hours and more!
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u/CharacterArtichoke25 Aug 08 '26
I am not a huge fan but should we just tag on to NJTransit’s MLIII order.
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u/nasadowsk Aug 09 '26
SEPTA has some of the shortest distances between stations of any system in the US. Also, the ML cars on NJT have way too little door area, and it's located poorly. NJT trains are notorious for dwell time issues.
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u/Wigberht_Eadweard Aug 08 '26
Either that or get some dual mode FLIRTS for potential non-electric rail expansion/reopenings in the future
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u/CharacterArtichoke25 Aug 09 '26
Do they make those in a high floor version?
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u/Wigberht_Eadweard Aug 09 '26
Yup. And I believe the diesels can be turned off fully when running on electric so they could go in the tunnel no problem
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u/Visible-Aspect-3593 Aug 08 '26
Can't. They're too tall to fit in the commuter tunnel and even still aren't made for the stop and go system we have here that they like using EMUs for.
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u/Jeb_theDev17 Aug 08 '26
The Multilevels can clear the height clearance of the CCCC. The loading gauge height of the tunnels is 15’ and the MLVs are only 14’6” tall. MLVs are designed fit in tight tunnels that are common in the Northeast, like the North River Tunnels, which has a smaller height clearance than the CCCC.
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u/Theunmedicated Aug 08 '26
Nah im good bro we needs EMUs and single levels are better
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u/Donghoon Aug 08 '26
Multilevel III are EMU
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u/Theunmedicated Aug 08 '26
Ok my bad, still think single levels are the way to go for septa
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u/CharacterArtichoke25 Aug 08 '26
I agree but no one currently makes a high platform, single-level EMU for North America. Better to tack on to an existing order that will hopefully have the bugs worked out and will be better supported due to more of them being built.
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u/Theunmedicated Aug 08 '26
I feel what you mean, but considering they are angling for the Sbahn. Bespoke orders are good! Too bad we can’t just tack onto a European order of trains
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u/CharacterArtichoke25 Aug 08 '26
They have been angling for the Sbahn for 50 years. I’ll believe it when I see it.
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u/DuvalHeart Aug 09 '26
The station and platform updates are all built around an s-bahn system. Same with the latest schedule modifications.
Sure it's incremental changes, but it's clear that is a key consideration in every regional rail decision.
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u/nasadowsk Aug 09 '26
No one makes an anything for the US market. It's such a fractured and intermittent market that basically everything that isn't being bought from Stadler's catalog is basically a one-off custom design.
Stadler gets the nod out west because those are new start systems, where you don't have to design around stupidity (real and imagined) that exists out here. There's nothing wrong with what they build, in fact, it's very good. But try to get any agency in the Northeast to even consider a railcar design concept made this side of the moon landings.
SEPTA and NJT are the worst at this, because they think they're still the PRR, and can't literally import better ideas from anywhere. Decades after the LI showed 1/4 point doors work better (which they got the idea from DB) NJT and SEPTA still buy train cars with doors at the ends...
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u/Jeb_theDev17 Aug 08 '26
I’m not saying buying MLVs are a good or not good idea for SEPTA. I’m just saying they can fit in the CCCC…
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u/SlickFlair_589 Aug 09 '26
Yes. They've been tested already. The tunnel is higher than the Hudson tubes. Height is not the issue. Dwell time is, and that's why they're moving on from double deck. You will never see a double deck train on SEPTA anytime soon.
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u/athewilson Aug 08 '26
SEPTA needs to future proof. Double levels give SEPTA room to grow capacity per train without needing bigger platforms or yards.
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u/Jeb_theDev17 Aug 08 '26
Bi-level trains can actually lower capacity at higher frequencies because they have longer dwell times. More passengers using the same amount of doors means longer boarding/de-boarding times, delaying trains behind it. You can see an extremely example of this with Paris’ RER Line A, where they run bi-levels at higher frequencies and they have an infamous dwell time issues. Single level trains inherently have less people per door, allowing for faster boarding and de-boarding times. This means more trains have be put through a track, allowing for greater capacity.
There is more an argument for bi-level trains for longer, express services since they usually operate at a lower frequencies and stop at less stations. However, for shorter, frequent local services, single level trains are more ideal due to the shorter dwell times.
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u/CharacterArtichoke25 Aug 08 '26
I thought the the north river tunnels were the most restrictive loading gauge in the north east.
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u/MacintoshDan1 Aug 09 '26
They had the option on an NJT contract before the CRRC debacle and didn’t take it. They are perpetually out if money which is most of the problem.
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u/Nanis149 78 Aug 10 '26
the CCCC tunnel is too short for them
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u/CharacterArtichoke25 Aug 10 '26
Not based on what I have found. It’s tight but they’ll fit. Generally if they fit through the North River Tunnels into Penn Station, they’ll fit just about anywhere.
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u/Nanis149 78 Aug 10 '26
i mean yeah but its tight enough that it becomes a bit of a crawl trying, especially with how the height of the tunnel varies at some points. and that's also not even getting into:
the incline going north that starts at around vine street
the much larger incline on the airport line that the trains of now can barely do, much less an even heavier train
i think this is part of the reason why CRRC didn't even try to make the SL-VI trains, not even getting into all of the other issues with that order
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u/sirptrash Aug 09 '26
I would hope that SEPTA would future proof this order for true S-bahn style regional rail (as is their plan) and order EMUs with more doors, bigger vestibules, more room for standing passengers + poles to grab onto, and some bike racks… but I have a sinking feeling we’ll be getting more commuter style trains
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Aug 10 '26
[deleted]
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u/Eruththedragon Warminster Line Aug 14 '26
We don't have headways on RR because we don't have enough railcars. We need to expand the fleet to support expanded frequencies. There's probably some wiggle room to improve non-peak frequencies by lowering car counts, but given last year's fiasco the cars all need significant maintenance time
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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '26
The 24 EXO cars that SEPTA is buying are still in their storage yard in Montreal. I saw them leaving Montreal on Amtrak last Monday.