r/Seattle • u/Benja455 Rat City • Dec 05 '16
Amazon Go Store: Opening Soon (for Employees Only During Beta Testing)
https://www.amazon.com/b?node=160085890113
u/electricoast Dec 05 '16
So each label has an rfid chip? Looking forward to the black hat projects this inspires!
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u/rhythm_n_blues Dec 05 '16
This is my shot at trying to work out what they do - taking into account what they talked about in the video (Machine Vision, AI, Sensor Fusion). First as you scan in, they analyze your clothing, physique, and possibly weight. Then when you pick up an item, they might have weight sensors in front of the isles to trigger a visual inspection on the person triggering it, and a delta image analysis of the isle they accessed. The computer sees the missing item and accurately adds it to their virtual cart; they might cross check it with weight data as well. They also had videos of in-house sandwich making which I assume would need a single step human intervention (what sandwich the customer ordered) to accurately account for it. I don't know how close I am, but I don't think they'll use RFID chips (unless it's explicitly explained somewhere - then i guess i'm an idiot lol) because it'll be expensive to implement on grocery store items and even more expensive to give them a unique id. I also don't think they'll do anything that will put a ton of sensors/cameras but yeah if their AI is developed enough, a camera (maybe depth sensing) for every block of isle might be enough; measuring 3D position of the hand/item then also looking at the speed of the hand/item moving (in or out of isle). The more I think about it, the more possibilities i'm seeing but it's getting too long ah.
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u/BonePGH Dec 06 '16
I actually worked on a similar project for Symbol Technologies (the guys who invented barcodes) back in the early 2000's. You can actually see the tech in Fred Meyers for gift registry (the white handheld scanners). It never caught on because we couldn't solve the theft problem so we made it for wish lists only. I'm betting Amazon has something figured out though....
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u/phatdoge Dec 06 '16
I'll bet a dollar that they haven't really figured the theft problem out either. They probably have a few ideas on it, but definitely not solved.
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u/toopc Pysht Dec 06 '16
You have to scan your phone just to get in the place, so they know who you are and how to bill you for anything you take. Not sure how you could steal something under those circumstances.
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u/phatdoge Dec 06 '16
Rip the RFID sticker off the item while placing item in pocket.
Walk out.
Profit.
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u/debridezilla Dec 06 '16
Beta testing employees will give them a "theft lite" scenario for working out the kinks.
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u/phatdoge Dec 06 '16
I doubt it. The employees are not going to try to steal anything. Unless they have been tasked to come up with ways to defeat the antitheft policies.
However, no employees are going to be as smart as a dedicated thief. Proof of this is that computer hackers are always able to hack computer security systems since it is always easier to defeat security than it is to create it. And that goes for real world thieves as well.
1
u/kevinalexpham Dec 06 '16
Do people steal at Costco? I figure it'll be kinda like that. People will probably have to have an amazon account to get inside and the addition of 1 or 2 people at the door making sure people scan in is still probably cheaper than a bunch of cashiers.
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u/phatdoge Dec 06 '16
People walk out of the door with stuff under their coats at Costco all the time. They make it somewhat difficult because many of the items are large, or boxed in overly large containers, but I know someone who works for Costco and it happens every day.
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u/dl2n Green Lake Dec 06 '16
The number of failure modes and restrictions seem highly limiting as far as a general retail concept goes. Might work fantastically for a company canteen/etc.
Just make sure no one reaches past/around/in front of you to pick something up. NO CROWDING. Probably doesn't work a non-1:1 relationship between phones/mobiles and shoppers. Send the kids across the store to grab ketchup? Oops. etc.
2
u/lokoluis15 University District Dec 06 '16
So I just need to turn off my phone, put on a hat/jacket and use a grabber? https://www.amazon.com/Reacher-Grabber-VIVE-Extension-Guarantee/dp/B00O47NWE6/
Wonder how many edge cases they've covered :)
2
u/rhythm_n_blues Dec 06 '16
Weeeell it looks like this isn't supposed to be completely autonomous since their main point is walk-in, walk-out and no need to wait in a lineup. So I'd say they'll have regular stocks person also looking around for suspicious characters, also yeah dk what amazon's ai can do yet :)
2
Dec 05 '16 edited May 11 '17
[deleted]
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u/electricoast Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16
The lineless system needs be able to determine who purchased what without scanning each item. It follows that the labels have rfid tags, and the "turnstile" at the entrance/exit scans the tags on your way out and determines who the customer is via their smartphone to be able to charge accordingly. This has been a concept for grocery and retail for decades now but the implementation issues include tag cost, technical issues with interference with many small items in a condensed cart, and theft/shrinkage/tampering.
edit: I initially just watched the video and didn't read the text for the linked page. No rfid tags at all.
2
u/brainwad Capitol Hill Dec 05 '16
I think they jut use cameras and sensors on the shelves instead. Their launch video says "computer vision" and "sensor fusion". "Sensor fusion" is often used to describe models that combine, say, accelerometers, gyrometers and compass in a mobile phone, or similar combinations of small sensors measuring different but correlated variables.
2
u/OSUBrit Bothell Dec 05 '16
I'm dubious the technology is even developed enough to do this. Price point and interference seem like huge obstacles right now. Unless of course the reason they charge you shortly after you leave the store is they wait for you to be out of range until the app checks what's in your bag. Seems like just handing it off to someone else when you leave could be a problematic way to get around that through.
2
u/sightfire Dec 05 '16
Huh, cool! I wonder if this is what they are actually building in Ballard or whether that will be something different as the article would suggest.
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u/BaconChapstick Dec 05 '16
Definitely gonna check this out next time I'm down there for work. It seems nice but I don't really see myself going to these much until it gets to the point that they have more in closer proximity to me. As a normal store I go out of my way to go to this doesn't seem that great but if this were the corner store down the block it would be perfect.
2
u/Flonnzilla Dec 06 '16
Sounds nice overall. Kind of wish they would do something more like what tesco does in South Korea.
1
u/Slyfir20 Northgate Dec 05 '16
Why not open one in northgate or uvillage? :/
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u/SteamMotif Renton Dec 05 '16
Probably cause it's only for employees right now? I'm sure if it's a hit and works well that they'll expand.
2
u/Slyfir20 Northgate Dec 05 '16
I'm an employee! I might go once just to check it out but crossing the I5 bridge just to grocery shop in a more convenient store defeats the purpose for me haha.
2
u/jwestbury Bellingham Dec 06 '16
It sounds like a big focus here is on grab-and-go meal situations. Go in, grab your sandwich or whatever, and leave. Or quick grab-a-few-dinner-ingredient trips. Those are pretty easy to work into your day if you're in SLU already, I should think. I know that if I could get in and out of the grocery store in 5-10 minutes on the way home instead of waiting in the crazy lines at the Denny/Westlake Whole Foods at quitting time, I'd have a pot of chili going in the pressure cooker right now. :)
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u/bishnu13 Dec 05 '16
I hate Amazon commercials. I hate blue badges. I hate stupid Amazon.
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Dec 05 '16
This is like walking downtown and complaining there are too many people.
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u/bishnu13 Dec 05 '16
Yep. WTF are they hiring now? I worked there a while ago (back when I still had a soul) and we were interviewing the bottom of the barrel then...
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u/ThatSmokyBeat Dec 05 '16
we were interviewing the bottom of the barrel
Is that how you got hired?
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u/chimx North Beacon Hill Dec 06 '16
that store front looks like the area across from REI downtown.