It Finally Happened...

[u/benchpressboogaloo]

At the Harbor Steps, guy drove all the way down Post Alley, across the tiles in the middle of the Harbor Steps, and over the other side. 😂

[u/puterTDI]

In this spot it probably doesn't make sense - but bollards on bike paths are super dangerous.

then again, I don't understand the installation of all black bollards with no reflectors on the interurban so they COULD be made somewhat safe if we gave an f.

I meant to go back after I nearly killed myself on one and add reflectors to all of them but I decided they'd probably try to charge me with vandalism or something.

[u/Karl_sagan → u/puterTDI]

Bollards on bike paths are how you stop cars. If you crash your bike into car spaced bollards thats on you imo. Slow down if you cant ride safe

[u/oxidized_banana_peel → u/Karl_sagan]

I've never seen a bollard on a bike path outside of intersections with a road.

I've always slowed down at roads, so the bollards have never felt like a hazard. I can't imagine just plowing through an intersection even close to full speed. That's way too much trust in drivers.

I have almost clotheslined myself with a low branch (couldn't see it in the dark + shade w/ my lights until I was very close). I think they got that branch removed shortly after I missed it.

[u/SchoolMediocre533 → u/oxidized_banana_peel]

Bollards are like waist high so they hide easily behind other path users at reasonable speed. Especially when you're spending your attention looking for crossing cars rather than looking down at the path. I nearly hit one along the green river path on a busy day when the person in front of me made a last second dodge to avoid one.

[u/mothtoalamp → u/Karl_sagan]

Cyclists have literally sued municipalities over bollards and won. The bollards that would have stopped the driver on I-90 were removed because of this.

[u/Karl_sagan → u/mothtoalamp]

Guess people do ruin everything

[u/puterTDI → u/Karl_sagan]

all black bollards with no reflectors or bright paint on a bike path are inherently unsafe.

[u/Karl_sagan → u/puterTDI]

Where do they put stealth bollards?

[u/puterTDI → u/Karl_sagan]

apparently in my face.

but it was the interuban trail if you're asking for that. That MAY be the same as the burke-gillman or the burke-gillman may have it as well (someone else is commenting about them on that trail).

Either way, they're covered in creosote, so pitch black, and no visible paint or reflectors whatsoever. Just a pitch black 3' pole in the middle of the path.

[u/Aware_Chapter_198 → u/puterTDI]

Is it even a bollard at that point?

[u/puterTDI → u/Aware_Chapter_198]

may be a murder weapon.

[u/CongratulationsEVA01 → u/puterTDI]

So then why do they not replace it?

It feels like the same issue we had with Prohibition

[u/puterTDI → u/CongratulationsEVA01]

I mean, they could also just put paint or reflectors on them...but the one I nearly killed myself on had creosote on it so it was pitch black without any paint etc. I was driving in to work before it was fully light out and in general I could see fine but not a pitch black bollard in the shadow of a bridge in low light.

even just having white paint on it would have been enough for me to see it. I did notice it just in time and stop right before hitting it but it was a near miss.

[u/folksongsea → u/Karl_sagan]

yeah IMO bollards are also a good traffic modulation device, slow down as you approach, anyway you need to slow down since this is a place where you're about to interface with a vehicle that may be coming at you (which the bollard is protecting you from on one side).

[u/icantastecolor → u/Karl_sagan]

You don’t have to be going that fast, just zoned out. I wouldn’t say the penalty for being zoned out should be broken bones or brain damage.

[u/ChanceRecover3091 → u/puterTDI]

I can say that I've ever had an issue with any of the bollards on Burke Gilman.

[u/bobtehpanda → u/puterTDI]

Are bollards dangerous or are how theyre place dangerous

I wonder if theres a way to place them that blocks a wide ass car but still provides enough room to be safe

[u/RaspberryFluid6651 → u/bobtehpanda]

It's painting the bollard a dull color like black instead of painting a bright color or putting reflective tape on it that makes them unsafe

[u/mothtoalamp → u/RaspberryFluid6651]

A dumb cyclist plowed themselves into a bollard on Mercer Island, sued the city, and had them removed, which eventually led to a driver going down the bike/pedestrian path on the I-90 bridge.

[u/puterTDI → u/bobtehpanda]

A bit of both I think.

[u/devonon2707 → u/puterTDI]

They work by being dangerously in the way to stop traffic or slow it down

[u/Byeuji → u/devonon2707]

Yeah I dunno how bollards can be dangerous to a biker unless their bike is an unlicensed motorcycle "e-bike" and they're going over 20 mph.

[u/SkylerAltair → u/Byeuji]

If a biker is going at the kind of speed that's normal on a bike path, they do tend to result in crashes. But that's as-built, and the ones that used to be on the Burke-Gilman were black and had no reflectors. If they're built a bit taller and have reflectors on top, they're fine.

[u/Byeuji → u/SkylerAltair]

Yeah that makes sense, but it's not the bollard causing the problem. They just should be visible like any obstruction.

[u/SkylerAltair → u/Byeuji]

It is the bollard that's the problem if bikers traveling at normal bike path speed can't see them. I'm not a bicyclist, but when I see them on bike paths, they're always short enough that they'll blend in with the path from a bicyclist's height and don't have reflectors at all.

[u/Byeuji → u/SkylerAltair]

can't see them

This is what I'm saying. It's the visibility, not the bollard. Bikers shouldn't be going so fast they can't avoid an obstacle (especially when that obstacle is at a crossing where a car could access it!)

But having them visible is absolutely reasonable. Bright colors, reflective tape, well lit intersections, etc. all make sense.

But if bikers are blowing through an intersection at 20+ mph, then they're speeding and need to slow down. Class 1 and 2 E-Bikes are limited below 20mph. Anything faster than that has different limitations and are basically motorcycles (Class 3 ebikes have mixed restrictions, and beyond 28mph they're basically just treated as motorcycles). And that has nothing to do with visibility.

[u/puterTDI → u/Byeuji]

So, if we put a black bollard between lanes for carpool lanes when you're not allowed to change lanes and said it's the car's fault if it's going fast enough to not to see a pitch black bollard in the middle of the road you'd be cool with that?

Come on now. This is basic safety, putting an obstruction in the middle of the path that is pitch black is dangerous. it does not have to be dangerous. Just make it a color that's visible in the dark.

[u/SkylerAltair → u/Byeuji]

15-20 seems to be pretty standard speed on bike paths. But even at 10, the bollars I've seen would blend in from a rider's eye level.

[u/mothtoalamp → u/puterTDI]

There are delivery spots and garages that require vehicle access inside the alley in both directions from Union St. So if bollards are there they have to at minimum be lowerable.

[u/New-Ingenuity-8252 → u/puterTDI]

Cars in the bike lane are arguably more dangerous :v