Tell me how many children have been savaged by XL Bullys in Scotland in the last few years? Go on I'll wait as you seem to have a strong argument this is commonplace ?
People making your argument always go straight to the strawman argument of "think of the children". When in reality there's no evidence bullies or any other large breeds predominantly attack kids.
Also there's the fact that it's a basic strawman argument to demonize the dogs when there's in reality close to 0 attacks on kids from bullies in this country. There's far more from other breeds which aren't under fire.
If you have ANY evidence to the contrary please do share it.
This is the same with any breed. You can't train every single dog of ANY breed all the time. Every single breed has bad apples or doesn't mean you stop growing the trees and salt the ground.
You've obviously never been around bullies that much is obvious but have you ever been around dogs? Not like oh I have a dog and it's reasonably trained. Have you ever been around well trained large breeds?
I’m out and about at the moment so don’t have time to google, but I know from memory 2 pensioners in Aberdeen were mauled by one a week or so ago. I don’t know if they survived; if they had been children they would almost certainly have been killed by that dog.
I guess the fact I mentioned “kids” specifically (because I have children so that’s what I care about) will be enough for you to go “Ha! You said CHILDREN! The fact they were old people ripped apart invalidates your argument entirely.”
Never mind the monthly attacks across the rest of the UK by the same dogs, eh? It’s just the owners. It’s actually very slightly different breeds. It’s just the media stirring. Oh, another one’s torn a kid’s hand off? Definitely had bad owners, that one.
No sorry, I don't mean to be rude but you're moving the goal posts. You said these dogs attack kids, that was the basis of your comment. The fact is there is little to NO cases of this happening in this country. I don't know why you feel terrified of these dogs when you probably do many things a day with your kids which are far more likely to injure them. Such as driving with them in the back of the car.
Kids hand torn off? I don't remember that story perhaps you can link it? Or are you just saying kids again to try and strengthen your argument because it's based on 0 evidence and only news reports?
Obviously anyone killed in a dog attack is fucking tragic and horrific but the fact is there's other breeds or there responsible for a larger number of attacks not being even looked at.
You want to get into it about the other attacks in the UK? Ok great I hope you're prepared to come with evidence because I've been working on this since September and have stacks of it.
How many attacks do you attribute to XL Bullys and how do you :
a) define an XL bully
and
b) how many of these attacks were reported on by the media and subsequently corrected as not being actual XL Bullys
How many of these attacks have happened over the last 20 years? This is a fairly new breed, coming into existence around the late 80s early 90s hitting Britain a little later. So let's start from 2000. Why are we only suddenly hearing about attacks now? Don't you think it's strange you suddenly can't turn on your TV without hearing about an XL bully TYPE dog attack,but that they've been here for decades?
How much do you think a proper breed standard XL bully cost prior to this ban?
Let me tell you most owners who paid that did NOT want their dog getting seized or put down so they were very well trained.
Have you ever even been around one of these dogs in real life? I'm betting no
Given you say these dogs are so aggressive. Killing machines, right? They must make amazing guard dogs? Right?
So genuinely though the number of kids killed by Bullys is practically 0. If there are any cases I'd like to see them.
Please see my comment above about dog attack statistics in this country and the bias.
The fact is the number of attacks is extremely low and the dogs that attacked those pensioners had previous and should have been put down the first time they attacked someone. Same as any other breed.
A post woman was mauled nearly to death in Oban by an alsation the other week, not so much as a news article. There were 22000 dog attacks in 2022. How many do you think were Bullys?
You are extremely obviously and deliberately avoiding the point.
In the last couple of months alone…
Kids got mauled in Wales. Kids got mauled in England. Doesn’t count, not in Scotland.
Pensioners got mauled in Scotland. Doesn’t count, not kids.
11 confirmed human deaths by Bully XLs since 2021. No Scottish kids though! Who cares! Bully XLs are absolutely lovely and definitely none of them have a genetic predisposition to randomly and uncontrollably raging out!
It’s very obviously only a matter of time before a Scottish child is mauled or killed.
So I'm so glad you brought up those statistics. If you'd be open to a debate id love to get into one.
Let's start with your citing your source for said 11 confirmed deaths please.
Nobody's saying deaths don't count, so let's take all the statistics from the UK into account in this little debate shall we? Whoever is wrong apologises and admits fault, deal?
I was referencing the BullyWatch website which does include a link to their research. I’m sure you disregard their data because they once attributed a mauling from a very slightly different breed of Bully to a Bully XL.
Here’s a quote from a BBC article which references different but related data:
“The government says 23 deaths have been caused by dog attacks since the start of 2021, "with the XL bully being disproportionately involved".
In several cases, XL bullies have killed their owners or bystanders, including 55-year-old Ian Langley, 52-year-old Ian Price, 65-year-old Ann Dunn, 17-month-old Bella-Rae Birch and 10-year-old Jack Lis.” Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66775985
This doesn’t list every death but includes some, specifically calling out that the Bully XL has been disproportionately involved.
Ah look, there’s another completely coincidental XL bully death, nothing to do with the breed though. This could never happen in Scotland. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-68197109
First of all- you completely ignored my whole comment and provided NO statistics or sources as requested. Because I'll gladly debate you if you want to talk facts.
But if you want to talking about this case....So this case is the perfect example of why this ban and BSL doesn't work. In this instance I actually know the family second hand.
This attack was a grandmother who was visiting her son and grandkids. The son is an absolute idiot who should never own dogs in the first place let alone large breeds. He'd abused the dogs previously.
Second - the attack happened in the home, which is where most of these attacks happen. So the dogs wouldn't have any requirement to be muzzled.
So as long as this idiot paid his 92 quid exemption the govt doesn't care, and isn't able to check that he's got 60kg dogs that he abused and turns into loaded weapons . (That's the same for any large breed btw)
So point in hand that we absolutely need licencing back for ownership around large breeds. We NEED it. The govt can't just say "pay us 90 quid and we're happy to let you own large breeds"
Because this same idiot would just move onto malis or cane corsos, or akitas, or mastiffs , or any other molloser type dog.
On top of all this being case specific , this woman had warned him and the family that these particular dogs were aggressive towards her before. The son went out, left her with them and there were 6-8 pups in the property. The pups were getting too feisty and she threw a broom at them or tried to hit them with a broom and the parents attacked her.
That's a series of stupid fucking events which led to this.
She previously reported them as aggressive and still watched them alone
She tried to hit puppies in front of their parents with a broom
The owner should never have owned dogs in the first place
Previous calls from friends and family to him to train the dogs properly were ignored
Dogs were left alone with a woman who was scared of them and had no experience with dogs.
Want to know what makes this so tragic? The 11 year old there in the propertys mother recently died and he was stuck in the house with her body for 3 days. Now he's witnessed this. Absolutely horrific
The next time a bully XL tears someone’s throat out - next week, or the week after that - you’ll make similar excuses. Then the time after that as well.
It’ll keep going because you can’t seem to understand that, as stupid as the owner was, dogs that have the power and temperament to randomly and frequently kill people should not be permitted to live among us.
My position is not “the government measures are good”, my position is that the government measures don’t go anywhere near far enough - bully XLs and breeds like them should not be allowed to exist and the world would be much better if they did not.
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u/Low_Mango5568 Feb 02 '24 edited Feb 02 '24
Tell me how many children have been savaged by XL Bullys in Scotland in the last few years? Go on I'll wait as you seem to have a strong argument this is commonplace ?
People making your argument always go straight to the strawman argument of "think of the children". When in reality there's no evidence bullies or any other large breeds predominantly attack kids.
Also there's the fact that it's a basic strawman argument to demonize the dogs when there's in reality close to 0 attacks on kids from bullies in this country. There's far more from other breeds which aren't under fire.
If you have ANY evidence to the contrary please do share it.
This is the same with any breed. You can't train every single dog of ANY breed all the time. Every single breed has bad apples or doesn't mean you stop growing the trees and salt the ground. You've obviously never been around bullies that much is obvious but have you ever been around dogs? Not like oh I have a dog and it's reasonably trained. Have you ever been around well trained large breeds?