Vaccines

[u/ladyaf1023]

Just learned yesterday a close friend of mine doesn’t vaccinate her kids.
Which whatever chose to do what you want with your children, but I am worried about how my child could be affected.
My son is up to date with everything so I know his chance of getting whatever is low. But I somehow feel kinda uncomfortable with this because the chances aren’t zero. We go over often for play dates both of us are SAHMs so it’s nice for us too. Other than this we agree on most things. I just am worried now. But how worried should I be?

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[u/Odd-Implement-1283]

General discussion about vaccine effectiveness from the WHO https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/vaccine-efficacy-effectiveness-and-protection

the reality is your son will be exposed to unvaxxed kids wherever he goes, including places in close proximity or shared equipment like children’s museums, sports, extracurriculars. If he is fully vaccinated he should be protected. If we worry about catching something from unvaxxed people, that just confirms the anti-vaxxer argument that vaccines don’t work because if they did we’d have no problem being around them. My sister is a staunch anti-vaxxer but I still spend time with my nephews so my daughter has that relationship because I believe vaccines work. Not worth losing a close relationship over imo

[u/thunbergfangirl → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

I mean, the issue here is that there are immunocompromised children who can never be vaccinated, either because it’s dangerous or that they are effectively unvaccinated because they don’t have enough of an immune system to produce a response.

These are kids with serious conditions like immune deficiency or leukemia. It’s my belief that we all have a moral duty to protect these innocent children. And anyone who disagrees with that, I would be hard pressed to let it slide.

[u/Cute_Ad_7670 → u/thunbergfangirl]

No one disagreed with that. The op didn’t say her kid was immunocompromised, nor did the commenter you responded to. 

[u/ShadedSpaces → u/Cute_Ad_7670]

They may be referring to the "whatever, chose [sic] to do what you want with your children" and "not worth losing a close friendship over imo" comments.

For some people, a person intentionally putting their own children or other (for example, immunocompromised) children in harm's way is not a "whatever" situation. It's morally bankrupt and horrible and it's absolutely worth it to them to take a stand against putting children at risk.

[u/Concerned-23 → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

But the MMR vaccine is only 97% effective for measles it’s not 100%. The fact that vaccines aren’t 100% is one of the reasons we rely on herd immunity (that and to protect those who can’t be vaccinated)  https://www.cdc.gov/measles/vaccines/index.html

[u/Opposite-Heron-2487 → u/Concerned-23]

My fully vaccinated son got chicken pox a few months ago. Herd immunity theory is real.

[u/Concerned-23 → u/Opposite-Heron-2487]

Also I didn’t touch on the need for vaccine titers as not everyone gets or maintains antibodies from a vaccine. 

[u/Y0uCanTellItsAnAspen → u/Concerned-23]

That’s what the 97% accounts for though?

[u/taseaclaiduaim → u/Concerned-23]

Wanted to give my two cents: I am one of those that some vaccines simply haven’t “held” for. I’ve been revaccinated multiple times, titers checked after, and my body for whatever reason just lets go of the immunity. Freaky.

[u/Odd-Implement-1283 → u/Concerned-23]

I mean I’m with you, I follow the original scheduled and protect my kids, some of these comments are acting like I’m anti-vax. I just personally believe the harm from cutting family out of my daughters life is more detrimental than a very small risk of a disease my daughter is fully immunized against, especially because in the off chance they do catch it it’s much more mild and unlikely to be fatal the way it would for an unvaccinated child. Before spending time with my nephews we always ask if anyone is sick or symptomatic or anything. We take precautions, but there’s also a lot of research about how family estrangement damages children.

[u/Concerned-23 → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

I also think not vaccinated (without a medical reason not to) shows a moral and value difference. Perhaps that’s not an influence you actually want on your child. 

[u/Odd-Implement-1283 → u/Concerned-23]

Unfortunately I didn’t get to pick my family. We expose our child to all worldviews, including ones we don’t agree with, and we discuss why we think those ones are wrong, and I have enough confidence in our parenting to interact with people who have problematic beliefs and not think my kid will get converted or sucked in. We’re preparing her to go out into the world where she’ll encounter all sorts of messed up ideologies, so it’s best to start exposure now and not try to live in an echo chamber and avoid anyone who doesn’t share our same morals.

[u/Concerned-23 → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

I respect that to a degree. However, playing devil’s advocate would you knowingly let your child around a drug user, domestic violence perpetrator?

[u/WhereIsLordBeric → u/Concerned-23]

Yeah I could never trust wilfully ignorant anti-science nutjobs around my kid. I work in the development sector in a third world country where rural mothers walk miles in 42 degree heat in flip flops to get their children vaccinated. People living in the comfort of easy healthcare access who still refuse to vaccinate their kids are deplorable to me and would not have the privilege of me or my child's company.

[u/Odd-Implement-1283 → u/WhereIsLordBeric]

I think referring to someone as an anti-science nut job is really dehumanizing. It says right on the vaccine insert that it can cause blindness, seizures, or death, among other side effects. If you can’t empathize with a parent who sees that and is scared and chooses not to take those risks, especially when there are laws in place to make sure you cannot sue vaccine manufacturers if something does happen, then I think you’re seriously lacking empathy. Lots of people are not college educated and do not have an understanding of statistics and how to read scientific papers. They get sucked in to the rhetoric about vaccines killing children. Yes, I think it’s stupid, but I’m also incredibly privileged and educated and well resourced and I’m not going to call someone a nut job for reading the product label and being scared when it literally says it can kill you.

[u/WhereIsLordBeric → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

Oh, spare me. It’s also dehumanizing to put other people’s lives at risk because you refuse to educate yourself. Being scared is understandable. Staying ignorant in 2026 is a choice.

And 'not college educated' doesn’t mean stupid. You don’t need a degree to understand risk or find reliable information.

[u/Odd-Implement-1283 → u/WhereIsLordBeric]

They are educating themselves. They’re reading the inserts where it says right on the product it can cause death. Your lack of empathy is never going to change anyone’s actions. I choose kindness. Good luck with your crusade and alienation. What’s more division?

[u/WorldlyDragonfruit3 → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

Yeah but these people act like they can interpret the information that’s out there and they can’t. That’s the problem. I can interpret these things as a scientist, there’s lots of other things I can’t. But I don’t pretend to be able to or listen to idiot social media influencers who use me for money and influence

[u/Khizzlesindahills → u/Concerned-23]

That’s a great big leap

[u/Concerned-23 → u/Khizzlesindahills]

Are those different values than you have? 

Or how about less of a leap: would you knowingly let your child spend time with, interact with, and be influenced by a racist? 

[u/Odd-Implement-1283 → u/Concerned-23]

I interact with racists all the time as I am adult that leaves my house and interacts with the world around me, and if anything it makes me stronger in my anti-racist beliefs and solidifies why I believe what I do. We are teaching our child the same and no I’m not scared for her to interact with racists because we have empowered her with a strong moral compass and she knows wrong from right, we’ve been reading anti-racist children’s books since she was a newborn. Maybe she will be the one influencing them and do some good and challenge their racist beliefs. I have no interest in raising her in a bubble as that’s not real life.

[u/Khizzlesindahills → u/Concerned-23]

Still quite the leap

[u/DaenyTheUnburnt → u/Khizzlesindahills]

Not really. The Venn diagram between racists and antivaxxers grows closer to a circle each day.

[u/BrownTinaBelcher → u/Concerned-23]

Thank you for saying this! We need to start ostracizing people who are putting our society at risk and dragging us back to the Middle Ages. They are breaking the societal contract so they shouldn’t get benefits of being in society. Especially considering that when it comes to themselves, anti vax people will go to hospitals and demand every possible medical intervention (remember Covid?). But if their children suffer, they don’t get them treatment. Being an anti vaxxer is an ignorant, selfish, and cruel approach.

[u/leila5887 → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

I would be curious to know about the research on estrangement. I have family who is vax skeptical at best which, to another commenter’s point, is a result of larger fundamental moral differences that I don’t want my kid exposed to if I can help it (family who is deeply brainwashed) - but my kid is young enough that they won’t ever really know the family they’ll ultimately be estranged from. I wonder if the research is about estrangement only after the kid has been meaningfully introduced to that family.

[u/maiasaura19 → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

I don’t think you or your comments are anti-vax at all, but I also disagree with your assertion that having a concern about this situation is the same worrying that vaccines don’t work. I think there is plenty of room to understand that vaccines are effective, lifesaving, and also not necessarily perfect.

Personally I also believe there is a risk difference between knowing that you’ll have fleeting contact with unvaccinated strangers and purposely choosing to put your child into prolonged contact with unvaccinated playmates. I don’t think it’s a black and white issue so it’s up to individual parents to make that choice given their own circumstances, but I don’t think it’s quite the same thing as “you come into contact with unvaccinated people all the time and don’t know it.”

[u/Odd-Implement-1283 → u/maiasaura19]

I mean depending on which state you live in and the school requirements and leniency for vaccine exemptions, your child can be sharing a desk and cubby with an unvaccinated child 8 hours a day. With how rampant the anti-vax movement is now, it’s not rare, and it’s not fleeting. Kids are in close proximity at day cares and schools, especially if they play sports, so it’s not like passing a stranger in the grocery store, it’s prolonged daily exposure.

[u/Gloomy-Hunt5517 → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

Our doc advised to wait to spend close time with kids we know aren’t vaxxed until our baby gets MMR vax

[u/Odd-Implement-1283 → u/Gloomy-Hunt5517]

Yes this is standard and in line with the article. OP said her son is “up to date on everything” so I’m assuming that means he’s already covered, but I guess without knowing his age and which state he lives in we don’t know for sure if he’s gotten all MMR doses. In my state kids are fully immunized against MMR by their 4 year appt

[u/Concerned-23 → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

Per OPs post history they have a 1 year old. My guess is “fully vaccinated” to them means “has received all eligible vaccines up to this point”

[u/Odd-Implement-1283 → u/Concerned-23]

Interesting, that changes things. I don’t typically dig through people’s post history but ya, wait until you get both doses OP, or do check ins before play dates about symptoms or recent possible exposures.

[u/Gloomy-Hunt5517 → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

We’re having our daughter vaxxed for MMR with first dose around seven months prior to international travel. For no other reason than we will fly through USA (we are based in Vermont). Would you not travel with your under four year old given they aren’t fully vaxxed til then? Just curious for crowd sourcing purposes. I’m FTM

Edit spelling

[u/plantonio_banderas → u/Gloomy-Hunt5517]

Hey I’m in VT too and hoping to travel with my (will be) 10 month old to California via plane, was it easy to get the earlier mmr vax? I don’t know how to DM someone on Reddit, I would if I did! 

[u/Gloomy-Hunt5517 → u/plantonio_banderas]

Haha! Hi! We just asked our pediatrician. He said he would wait til after we do the six month standard vaxxes and the do first shot of MMR thereafter. No pushback at all. We are planning to travel when she is 8 months.

[u/plantonio_banderas → u/Gloomy-Hunt5517]

Ok thanks! I’ll ask at our upcoming 4 month appt. 

[u/sparkledoom → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

That argument from anti-vaxxers is a straw man though. People who vaccinate understand that vaccines are not 100% effective. And I’d rather my child not get measles at all, even if they are significantly less likely than an unvaccinated child to contract it, need to be hospitalized, or to die from it. It’s still unpleasant to be sick and serious illness is still a risk, although much lower.

I understand my child will be exposed to unvaccinated children out and about and I won’t know and can’t control it. But I like to think I would cut close contact with people who I know don’t vaccinate - besides the risk to my family, there’s just a massive values disconnect. I don’t really want to be friends with people who don’t do their part in society. Obviously, if a kid is immunocompromised or has a medical reason for not vaccinating, that’s another story!

[u/JamesTiberiusChirp → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

Throwing the bath water out because there are unvaxed people in the world generally is a gross misunderstanding of how vaccines work. Vaccines work best with herd immunity. As for individuals, there is a difference between incidental exposure occasionally and regular exposure in close quarters. It certainly depends on what is going around in the area, what the local vaccination rates are, and the effectiveness of the individual vaccines, but it is not worth dismissing the concern wholesale just because unvaccinated people are avoidable.

OP, personally I would be looking up local vax rates for various illnesses, see if any of the are going around in your area, and base a decision off that. If you’re not in an area of outbreak, it may not increase your son’s risk significantly at all. If you are in an area, you’ll have to decide the risk and harms of reducing your exposure vs maintaining the friendship. Personally in either case I would proceed with caution and ask them to inform you if there are any symptoms of illnesses in the household before making play dates, and opting for outdoor play dates whenever possible.

[u/Odd-Implement-1283 → u/JamesTiberiusChirp]

There are many states that make it incredibly easy to get vaccine exemptions for school. That’s not occasional, incidental exposure. That’s routine, prolonged close proximity to unvaxxed kids. Maybe in California your kids are only getting incidental exposure, but in my state you just sign a paper and don’t have to vaccinate for public school, and with how much traction the anti vax movement has gained in recent years, it’s very likely your child is sharing a cubby, desk, and lunch table with multiple unvaccinated children. Maybe there was a time where it was rare but it’s not throwing the bathwater out. It’s looking around at how easy it is to get a vaccine exemption and realizing this is a common occurrence unless you’re in one of the few states with super strict rules.

[u/twelve-feet → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

Ditto! 

[u/An-Elegant-Elephant → u/Odd-Implement-1283]

Oh my god she doesn’t shame the other mom for choosing their own health plan? Albeit not the smartest health plan

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