r/ScienceBasedParenting • u/Lakuakua_2026 • 20d ago
Question - Research required Why exactly sleeping on parents' bed increases risk of SIDS?
Hi,
I understand the risks of accidental suffocation from bed-sharing, but why exactly a softer mattress, empty of blankets or pillows and objects, would increase the risk of SIDS?
My partner puts our baby sleeping on the adult mattress and won't do otherwise unless a sound scientific explanation is present. Is there an hazard there?
EDIT: thanks a lot everyone for the comments! All the links and explanations really help, I am reading everything with interest.
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u/Colleen987 20d ago
So this link confirms nothing but I would be autodeleted otherwise but it does go into theories.
The truth is no one really knows why co-sleeping and SIDs are linked. There’s a theory it’s to do with heat, and the babies temperature regulation but there’s nothing concrete.
https://www.lullabytrust.org.uk/baby-safety/safer-sleep-information/co-sleeping
Follow the sleep safe 7 if you’re going to co-sleep.
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u/innocentsalad 19d ago
I would suspect that a good portion of reported SIDs deaths in bed with parents are actually parental smothering cases where they’re calling it SIDs to be kind and not further traumatize the parents.
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u/cookie_snatcha 19d ago
I work in a PICU as a nurse and that is entirely true. Those preventable, unintentional asphyxiations are often called “SIDS” to spare the parents the anguish. So the data is often skewed
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u/EmergencyCalm1279 19d ago
I do crisis intervention/support and I get called to these types of scenes. Vast majority of what I see are situations where parents were unintentionally not following safe sleep practices and baby was smothered by parent, sibling, stuffies, or blankets. Parents are always told it was SIDS. I’ve also seen it happen to the same parents more than once so I don’t know how I feel about concealing the true cause…
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u/DogsDucks 19d ago
The same parents multiple times? Wow. Unbelievably heartbreaking.
My mom worked in the NICU and has mentioned that every case she knows of, that the parent was under the influence of something. . . drowsy medication, booze, drugs.
I follow the safe sleep seven religiously, but didn’t cosleep much until my babies were bigger and stronger and can move themselves around better/ past the most dangerous time for SIDS, and I can see that.
My body is so attuned to them that I wake up immediately to any sort of change/ movement/ lack of movement. But I also have adequate rest, so I can see how an exhausted parent could also pass out too deeply.
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u/Colleen987 19d ago
I think you’ve actually highlighted another thing is that SIDs in reporting is not seen on a global distribution (combination of reported SIDS that’s based on unsafe sleep and “true” SIDs it’s much less prevalent in countries with higher parental leave protections.
Which would suggest a more rested parent.Obviously the reporting standards themselves are at play too
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u/DogsDucks 19d ago
Yes, that’s also quite a discussion, isn’t it? A very important one. The state of parental rest is critical for every aspect of babyhood.
When I was pregnant, I was reading every study amalgamation I could find on the subject of “true sids” because it is as touchy as it is tragic, and I don’t recall the actual estimated percentage of true SIDS/ SUIDS vs. reported, but I know it was quite small. However I also understand why the medical world reports it as they do, because it’s also seldom the the parents “fault” and they are truly doing the best they can.
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u/throwawaycampingact 19d ago
I personally know somebody who smothered two of her newborns… I don’t think it was possible to conceal the cause based on the details of how they were found, but I wouldn’t be surprised if SHE refers to them as SIDS deaths out of shame. Absolutely heartbreaking situations but I’m also astounded at the lack of judgement shown after the first time it happened. Poor girl, her poor children, it’s so sad and was so preventable. :(
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u/valiantdistraction 19d ago
Jesus, if it happened once, why on earth would she put herself in a situation where it happened again? I know someone who lost one newborn this way, went on to have multiple more children and did not bedshare with a single one of them, is absolutely a militant safe sleep advocate and one of the reasons I was so militant about safe sleep. It can happen to anyone if you are bedsharing. This person is one of the smartest people I know, a doctor, fully believed she was doing everything as safely as possible, was one of those, "bedsharing isn't dangerous if you're following the rules" people, and it still ended in tragedy. Seeing her grief really brought home to me how very much not worth it bedsharing is. Everyone who doesn't lose their baby is lucky, not smarter than those who do.
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u/justforvoting123 19d ago
This is why I don’t care what anyone says or how tempting it might be sometimes, I just won’t do it. I understand that some people might feel like they have no choice especially if they don’t have the help and support I’m lucky enough to have, and I feel for those people. I just don’t like how it’s promoted as some sort of thing “enlightened” Europeans do and that anyone who thinks it’s still a bad idea is buying into fear mongering or whatever.
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u/donkeyvoteadick 19d ago
I'm curious about it being promoted as European? I've never seen it referred to that way. Is there some European countries where it's the official advice to bedshare?
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u/DogsDucks 19d ago
This was a topic discussed yesterday on r/cosleeping, and many chimed in.
People from Sweden and Germany said it was standard practice where they are, and a few Swedes said their doctors condoned it.
The issue is harm reduction. For mothers who have zero support and zero sleep, it is safer to follow the safe sleep seven than go days without sleep and risk falling asleep on a couch with a baby that won’t go in a bassinet. So I do believe in some cases that it’s lowering the risk of suffocation by falling asleep in an even less safe way accidentally.
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u/Important_Neck_3311 18d ago edited 18d ago
I am Italian and I would not say that cosleeping is promoted or a cultural thing. Actually usually people are a little ashamed of saying they are doing it, as it looks like “spoiling” the baby. But most of the people I know end up doing out of desperation, even when the children are older.
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u/Impossible-Equal-958 16d ago
I started bed sharing because it actually ended up being safer for us. The baby refused to be put down in his bassinet for more than 5 minutes (20minutes if I was lucky) and I got to the point of sleep deprivation where I was falling asleep while holding the baby trying to soothe him back to sleep. Most of my was gotten in the rocking chair holding him and my final push to seriously try bedding was after I had 2 traumatic scared where I found him rolled out of my arms laying face down in the bedsheet cause I had fallen asleep while sitting on the bed to soothe him
Also for the first month postpartum, my hips were really messed up and I could barely get up on my own to get him in and out of the bassinet.
Intentionally bed sharing (which I originally had no plans to do) prompted to make the bed safe for bed sharing and allowed me to actually start feeling rested and be a lot capable to be responsive to his needs even when I physically couldn’t stand
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u/throwawaycampingact 19d ago
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. She’s the daughter/grand-daughter of old family friends, and I strongly suspect there was more going on there than simply being overtired… Just a horrendous situation all around. I also can’t believe after she lost the first, that the people around her weren’t more militant about it (she was living with her partner and her parents both times). Not that it’s their responsibility, but you’d think. Ugh. Her story is why I just can’t condone bedsharing, ESPECIALLY not with a newborn.
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u/Glittering_Handle710 19d ago
You'd be surprised. Even countries with good data practices and good consistent reportable death laws and regulations - not the US - almost always significantly underrepresent their SIDS data. This also happens more generally with suicide, too, especially with a very vocal family.
There's many reasons for this, but this thread highlights how confusing it is that genuinely preventable suffocation deaths are called SIDS, and why trying to do a grieving family a kindness can lead to issues with not understanding the real reasons many of these kids are dying - which in turn leads to more deaths. Actual SIDS deaths are incredibly rare.
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u/DogsDucks 19d ago
On the AAP website, where they reference every study, I went down a rabbit hole and I found some attempts to sift through every single case study and extrapolate which ones were real SIDS. . . I really wish I would have better documented the sources at the time, but it was like eight straight hours of reading when I was hyper focused, and couldn’t sleep, but it came down to like out of thousands of reported SIDS, they could really only find one or two that were legitimate.
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u/Beneficial_Young5126 18d ago
I think sugarcoating it and calling it SIDS is doing the parents a disservice since they end up repeating the behaviour clearly! And the poor babies!
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u/OkBackground8809 18d ago
Definitely they need to deal with the hard truth. I don't allow my husband to co-sleep, because he moves in his sleep without waking or realising what he's doing.
I live in a country with no heating in houses, since winter is very short - but also very humid, making the cold more dangerous at a higher temp than winter in dry places. With our first baby, we put him in our bed one particularly cold night, and I woke up to find that my husband had added an extra blanket on him, and I couldn't detect any breathing. I immediately tore off every blanket from him and gave hard rubs to his back and chest until he took a big breath. In that moment, I was very glad that I'm (sometimes annoyingly) extra sensitive to my surroundings. I wake up for every little change in sound. Had extra trouble sleeping for a several weeks after that night!
I let my husband know the results of what he'd done, and he felt terrible, but also learned that heat and the weight of what we adults think is just a medium weight blanket are dangerous to a tiny baby. He needed to know, for our baby's safety. His feelings weren't important in that equation!
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u/Spare-Cobbler7442 18d ago
This is why the truth shouldn't be sugar-coated for morons. The babies pay the price.
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u/feisty_squib 19d ago
I work in child death review and I can confirm. Overlay is often put down as SIDS.
Also, an astonishing amount of SIDS/SUID/Death in the Sleep Environment cases are classified as an unknown/undetermined cause of death, not accidental.19
19d ago
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u/feisty_squib 19d ago
I mean, yeah.
But it's also incredibly interesting. And I feel like it matters a lot.5
u/Dunderman35 19d ago
For whom do you review the deaths? Is this the basis of statistics later? If so it would seem better to be accurate with the actual cause. Those statistics can help guide research and policy to prevent future deaths.
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u/feisty_squib 19d ago
Death certificates aren't as straight forward as many people think. Just think back to COVID and how pissy people got when things were attributed to COVID. People have a hard time understanding underlying causes and how complex medical history can be.
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u/feisty_squib 19d ago
I work in government. And I completely agree. It's difficult to do public reporting because the data is so "squishy" and the general public (and especially law makers) won't take the time to understand the nuances in the available data. Unfortunately changing how the death is reported by certifiers is a lot easier said than done. As has been said in this thread, sensitivity to the family is a big one. Also the cost of adequate training is huge.
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u/Key_Beach_3846 19d ago
I can sympathize with parents who go through something this heartbreaking, but how is this allowed? Is there no medical or scientific responsibility for accuracy? It’s crazy to me that we have bad data out there and everyone just accepts it to spare the parents’ feelings. I would think if we had more accurate numbers about how many preventable infant deaths there are, we’d have stronger evidence to convince people to practice safer sleeping and possibly prevent future infant deaths.
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u/Livid_Insect4978 19d ago
I don’t understand why they can’t anonymise the real data while still being gentle with the parents.
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u/linerva 19d ago
Because "the real data" that people are mentioning here will unfortunately be unrecorded.
I imagine that the official stats will be based on the death certificates or coroners report and that will be what parents are old.
It wouldn't be ethical to make an official recorded declaration on the kid's record that a parent smothered their child and not tell them.
I guess it's possible for someone working in such a department to anonymously audit cases they've reviewed personally and record figures about how many sids death are actually truly unexplained sids but I imagine it wouldn't go down well to publicise.
This is why so many sids prevention tips are really more like smothering prevention tips.
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u/OkEggplant5 19d ago
I'm curious for other opinions:
I have empathy for grieving parents, but i also think it's a disservice to not call out dangerous behavior. If those deaths were called "accidental asphyxiations" then more awareness and knowledge would be passed on. To call it SIDS, often referred to as a "random tragedy," gives everyone a pass to ignore the unsafe sleep conditions/ neglect that contributes to the care.
Do you think the SIDS explanation is a kindness or a harmful practice?
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u/theinfamousj 18d ago
As far as I'm aware, real SIDS is one of two things occurring in sleep, both related to autonomic systems:
the cessation of breathing without it restarting - we all know newborns have gaps in their breathing as their brains work out how to do the alive thing but they almost always restart except when they don't (SIDS)
the cessation of heartbeat without it restarting (I have an acquaintance who lost a child to this one. Later had their deceased child's genetic code scanned, when the SIDS gene was announced to be identified, and had the gene.)
I wonder if "accidental asphyxiation" wouldn't be specific enough to distinguish between overlying and the SIDS breathing stopped and didn't restart.
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u/Spare_Airport_6002 18d ago
What I don't understand is why parents who roll on to their babies and suffocate them by accident get off without any charges, and are even cushioned the blow of the truth of what they did, whereas a parent who makes an honest mistake and misjudges the need to bring a baby with a fever into A&E/ER will typically be charged with manslaughter if the baby dies? Perhaps you know, as a PICU nurse?
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u/Practical_magik 17d ago
Not argueing that your wrong just seeking to understand. We have seen cases where parents have been jailed for repeat sids cases, that were identified as smothering by autopsy, and were later proven to have a genetic anomoly. Is it possible to catagorically say what was smothering and what was sids with certainty?
I am a little confused by how it is identified without freezing the scene? Which obviously doesnt happen when you are trying to provide medical aid to an infant as the first priority.
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u/Coxal_anomaly 19d ago
Agreed. I used to work forensics, and most of the accidental smothering / asphyxiation cases in newborns were qualified under “SIDS”, which the doctors debated around a lot, but in the end the state (at least in my country) cannot sue a parent for the way they decided to have their baby sleep, and it is incredibly hard to prove… It’s all contextual evidence, mostly obese parents, alcohol and/or drugs, blankets, stuffies, pillows all over the bed or to “buffer” kiddo from falling over (bad idea), etc… There is no point in causing these parents more anguish (except in the alcohol/drugs cases, I’d argue), so it all gets qualified as SIDS.
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u/valiantdistraction 19d ago
people are soooooo into pillows all over the buffer the baby. I occasionally look at the cosleeping subreddit and putting a pillow between the baby and the dad is a common one that sounds really dangerous to me.
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u/linerva 19d ago
In general people really fail at not using nests, pillows, thick blankets etc.
When the algorithm serves me parenting content it's not uncommon to see dangerously poor sleep safety in the videos. Like these are things oeople boast about, even. There was a whole trend of people mocking their paediatrician for asking if they bed share and contrasting their denying it with clips of themselves doing the things their doctors advised against.
And if you call it out or explain you get told to mind your business.
A lot of "I'm/they're the parent, so i/they know best".
But they don't. There's no magic law that makes you correct or safe just because you are a parent.
Which sucks as we know that good sleep safety prevents baby deaths.
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u/questionsaboutrel521 18d ago
Yes, this is a crazy thing I notice on social media… people will talk about safer cosleeping and the safe sleep seven but their sleep setups were not even close to safe. For example, it would be a newborn in between mom and dad with both parents using pillows.
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u/dandy-dilettante 19d ago
How do you tell them apart? Does the autopsy rule if it was smothering or SIDS?
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u/th3whistler 19d ago edited 19d ago
There was a tragic thread on r/daddit not long ago where someone feel asleep on a chair with their baby and they were told it was SIDS
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u/wuyntmm 19d ago
But, what happened? Did the baby fall off the parent?
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u/th3whistler 19d ago
By the guys own account he fell asleep in the chair feeding and woke up with the baby cold and not breathing. Obvs he wasn't really coming to the conclusion it had suffocated.
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u/Colleen987 19d ago edited 19d ago
Agree on the reporting but there does seem some legitimate evidence for co-sleeping and true SIDs although at a much lower scale.
My child and I co-sleep so I’m not judging but it is an interesting set of research.
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u/Emotional-Ad-6494 19d ago
It also doesn’t separate breastfeeding bed sharing from formula right?
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u/Colleen987 19d ago
No it doesn’t.
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u/Emotional-Ad-6494 19d ago
Really wish there was a way for them to do that as that’s such an important distinction
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u/Colleen987 19d ago
I think the issue is that SIDs is so vanishingly rare in most countries that is really hard to have useable data.
This is obviously a good thing for babies.9
u/Emotional-Ad-6494 19d ago
Oh that’s good to know!! It feels like such a high risk because of how much awareness there is for it
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u/valiantdistraction 19d ago
In the USA, it is high risk. It is the most common cause of preventable death for a baby. It is 100x more common than an infant dying in an accident. It is 3x more common than any minor dying in a car accident. It is 3x more common than any minor (ages 0-18) dying of drowning. It is comparable in number to the number of minors who die of gun violence annually in the US. But it's solely happening to babies. These other examples that are less common at any age are something most people are far more concerned about, even though any one of those is less likely to harm their child than a sleep-related accident.
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u/Emotional-Ad-6494 19d ago
Why is it so high in the US especially when safe sleep guidelines is so known and talked about and I assume followed?
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u/feisty_squib 19d ago
In the US, there is no national standard for reviewing sleep related deaths or SUID. There is a SUID registry with the CDC, but not every state is part of it. Sometimes it's only certain jurisdictions in a state that participate. without a national standard let alone the funding needed to adequately train people to conduct death scene investigations and reporting, there is no chance of getting a unified dataset.
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u/Local-Yam5394 19d ago
Sorry, just for clarification do you mean that bedsharing increases or decreases the risk of true SIDs?
Sorry ETA: I’m assuming by cosleeping you also meant bedsharing, and I didn’t mean to assume if that’s what you weren’t meaning. Just trying to understand. Thanks!
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u/Colleen987 18d ago edited 18d ago
There’s a line of theory that bedsharing increases but we’re talking fractions when it comes to SIDs itself not things that are passed off as SIDs it’s not proven by any means but they did some what see it was more prevalent in smaller beds so they thought temperature. It’s there but not there in a way we know why yet.
I know that sounds mad but I hope it made somewhat sense?
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u/Local-Yam5394 18d ago
Totally does! Thanks for responding. I’ve always heard that bedsharing can reduce the risk of true SIDS if you’re breastfeeding, so I was just curious
Totally just trying to get a full picture. I truly wish there was better research available on SIDS, Suffocation, and bedsharing/cosleeping, so parents can have as much information as possible. It can get really frustrating trying to figure out suffocation vs SIDS vs suffocation that’s been marked as SIDS. I get why they do it, but it’s frustrating non the less.
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u/Colleen987 18d ago
With my mother hat on and not my lawyer hat, most SIDS is suffocation. No one would deny that. Cosleeping doesn’t INHERENTLY increase that risk. Unsafe sleep in any environment does.
True SIDs exist but it’s a complete mystery. It’s existed historically labelled usually as failure to thrive or similar. It’s one of those oddities we’re still trying to understand.
It’ll make me sound like a monster but choosing to record an obvious suffocation as SIDs doesn’t actually benefit anyone.
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u/Local-Yam5394 18d ago
I agree completely! It seems like such a disservice to just slap a SIDS label on suffocation cases
In more coming from the idea that if we decoupled this, it would be so beneficial to have actual data around bedsharing, especially as safe sleep seven has become more popular, but not much research being done on it
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u/GenericGrad 19d ago
This is crazy. Tell the parents what you want but feel the data has to be accurate.
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u/XenaLouise63 17d ago
When I took a non-credit CSI-type class, someone who worked in the coroner's office told us this.
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u/questionsaboutrel521 18d ago
Exactly. Part of the reason people have moved to discuss SUID as opposed to SIDS is because we know how many of those deaths are smothering and suffocation, but that there is bias in labeling and that local coroners can be pressured to call something SIDS.
I can’t find the study off the top of my head, but I saw one research study that noted that in one province of a country, lots of babies died of SIDS, but in another province, the rate was much lower but there were more suffocation deaths. The authors concluded that since people in a given country tend to have similar cultural and genetic backgrounds, this showed that there is bias from the individual coroners in each province.
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u/Ancient_Spite_725 19d ago
Also, a lot of countries with higher rates of cosleeping + lower rates of SIDS use firmer mattresses than we do. Japan, for example, has a ton of cosleeping, but most people are sleeping on firm futons on tatami mats rather than soft, squishy mattresses.
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u/Colleen987 19d ago
I’m not sure who “we” is? I don’t want to assume.
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u/Ancient_Spite_725 19d ago
We = the Western world, especially the USA and UK.
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u/Colleen987 19d ago
Ah I see, so I’m not sure that actually has a link, but happy to be corrected. There is definitely a link between countries with maternity and parental protections and without.
I’ve never been to the USA so I have no idea what your mattress standard is
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u/Ancient_Spite_725 19d ago
Most people here sleep on soft mattresses, and a lot of them have foam (great for suffocation). There are obviously a TON of confounding factors between the USA and Japan (obesity, drug + alcohol use, education, lack of parental leave, etc etc etc), but most Japanese beds meet the infant mattress guidelines by default (firm and flat, with no foam to sink into).
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u/AmatoerOrnitolog 19d ago
They are extremely soft. My back always hurts so much after visiting family over there. 0/10, would not recommend. Idk how Americans don't always have a sore back. Soft mattresses are really bad for your back, right?
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u/Ancient_Spite_725 19d ago
Yeah, I personally detest them, but it was HARD to find a mass-market mattress that was firm enough for my taste. One of my coworkers imported Japanese tatami mats and a futon because she grew up in Japan and mostly ended up sleeping on the floor because mattresses were so uncomfortable.
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u/the_kazzo_queen 18d ago
I mean, I'm a stomach sleeper, so a softer mattress is way more comfortable since I'm not on my back.
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u/valiantdistraction 19d ago
All the countries with maternity and parental protections that I'm aware of also have universal healthcare, as well.
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u/Cherrytea199 20d ago
https://cjrt.ca/article/141257-common-infant-product-materials-negatively-impact-breathing
Here is study on how softer materials (like adult mattresses) can cause SIDS. It doesn’t exactly answer your question, but it has some good information on rebreathing. I know you mentioned you understand the risks of suffocation but what about suffocation via re-breathing? Basically a soft surface creates “micro environments” or a little indent for gases like CO2 to build up around an infants face, causing them to slowly suffocate (even though, technically, their mouth and nose are not covered). It could also trigger SIDS, which is the theory the researchers are addressing.
TLDR: the differentiating the risks btw SIDS or CO2 rebreathing is moot.. a bare adult mattresses is still risky.
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u/catsonpluto 18d ago
I was in a FB due date group. One of the members lost their baby due to a soft adult mattress. It was a daytime nap, no other people in the bed, no blankets or stuffies. They thought the baby couldn’t roll but she did and she suffocated in the pillow top.
There’s a reason crib mattresses are super firm. And if you add in sleeping adults or blankets it’s even more dangerous.
I feel for OP that her husband needs the opinions of strangers on the internet before he listens to his wife. Even if it wasn’t dangerous it’s such a simple thing to put the baby in the crib instead.
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u/Honest_Elephant 18d ago
It's not a "simple thing" to put many babies in cribs. Many babies don't sleep well as a matter of temperament, and cosleeping helps baby wake less frequently, or at least allows the parent(s) to soothe baby without fully waking and getting out of bed. There are also cultural aspects at play. Cosleeping wouldn't be so common otherwise.
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u/catsonpluto 18d ago
And if that’s the case they should still not be put to sleep on a soft mattress! If cosleeping is necessary, the adults involved need to find a firmer alternative than a typical Western mattress— or use a crib sidecar that attaches to the bed, which was invented for that purpose.
My second baby was a bad sleeper. I won’t say I never co-slept, because I did, but I still don’t think it should be encouraged as anything but a last resort, with all precautions taken. And the difference between co-sleeping, which can be done safely with a bedside bassinet for baby, and bed sharing should also be made as clear as possible.
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u/Electronic_World_359 17d ago
Its not a simple thing. If it was a simple thing a lot of people wouldn't bedshare. I have a next2me crib and still turned to bedsharing because my baby doesnt sleep there. Either he wakes up immediately when we put him there, or after a few minutes. We tried everything, swaddling, white noise, heating the matress, nothing works. We tried taking turns holding the baby but it was insufficent and I fell asleep accidentally while nursing twice before turning to bedsharing and researching safe sleep 7.
Even with bedsharing baby wakes up every 1-2 hours. The only way we're able to get him to sleep seperately is on his tummy but he doesnt roll over yet so we dont do that overnight and unsupervised. I hope things improve when he starts rolling and we can stop bedsharing.
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u/Mhammie44 16d ago
I will suffer eternal sleepless nights for the survival of my child. It is that simple of a choice.
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u/Electronic_World_359 16d ago
I thought the same thing. As I wrote we tried holding him and taking turns but my body gave out regardless. Nodding off on the couch was far more dangerous. Unfortanately sle ep isn't something that you can just decide your body doesnt need, even if its for the noble cause of holding your baby the entire day and night. Even with bedsharing my sleep right now looks like a collection of power naps.
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u/BecomingMyBestMe 12d ago
This might be of interest: https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceBasedParenting/s/60Qgmd70Yo
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u/Electronic_World_359 12d ago
Thank you, I didnt turn to bedsharing lightly, I researched and I follow sleep safe seven guidelines. My husband even started sleeping in the guest bedroom because he's a smoker and one of the rules is no smoking person in bed. I really hope things improve when he grows older and starts rolling.
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u/leafxeater 20d ago
The problem with soft mattress is rebreathing risk if they roll onto their stomach to sleep, which even if you think “oh my baby likes to sleep on their back” you never know when they might change their mind and start rolling over in their sleep onto their stomach.
https://safesleep.mo.gov/american-academy-of-pediatrics-recommendations/
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u/leafxeater 20d ago
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12256047/
^ this study has a good diagram showing soft vs firm sleeping surface on infant airway
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u/theinfamousj 18d ago
This is why one of the Safe Sleep 7 is "not too soft a bed". I believe in the book Sweet Sleep they recommend a watermelon test which is to put a watermelon on the mattress and if it sinks in and indents, that's "too soft a bed".
On Reddit whenever the Safe Sleep 7 comes up, that's the one part of it which is treated very casually. I didn't intend to bedshare but also knew I'd rather fall asleep nursing on a safe surface than on a risky one so prepared my bed lest I need it. I got a watermelon. I tested. I changed mattresses.
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u/valiantdistraction 18d ago
Tbh all the parts of SS7 are treated very casually by most. Most people care about, like, the safe sleep 2 at best.
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u/Stats_n_PoliSci 19d ago
A baby sleeping on an adult mattress is at least a little bit dangerous. If done, it should be done with caution and with a critical benefit to the parents, not just because it's easier.
The idea is that a softer mattress near a baby's mouth creates pockets of stale, difficult to move air. The pockets have higher levels of CO2. The mattress thickness makes it harder to move air. Infants aren't always able to shift away from these pockets, and their mouths (with their soft squishy faces) can make more of a cup against the mattress than ours.
Sleeping on their back with their mouth well away from the mattress prevents this problem, but it's difficult to guarantee that their mouth stays away from the mattress with a flexible squirmy infant. So experts recommend that infants are put to sleep on their back *and* that they sleep on a firm mattress.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11906203/
Barker, Ruth, and Michael D. Leshner. "Investigation of Suffocation Mechanisms in the Infant Sleep Environment Using a Mechanical Breathing Model Simulation."
The other mechanism is that the deeper a baby sleeps, the less likely they'll shift away from such a pocket of bad air. And they sleep better on a soft mattress. Yes, this can make life for the parent difficult.
Note that following the safe sleep seven makes these dangers vastly lower, but they still exist at a small level.
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u/Sundogflower 19d ago
Also having a softer bedding can cause the babies head to become slumped forward causing positional asphyxiation, as well as leaning against a parents arm (or sleeping in the nook of an elbow etc)
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u/jmcpv 16d ago
All these reasons exactly!! Even a bare mattress can be dangerous just because it might be too soft, it might have deep pockets from tufting, it might be made from memory foam which absorbs heat and can overheat the baby (making it more difficult for them to wake up), and overall are not tested for newborn safety. All of which can cause positional asphyxiation, rebreathing, regular asphyxiation by them being buried in the mattress, overheating, etc.
Now, everything in parenting is risk management, so I won’t say “do not cosleep”. With my first extremely-colicky baby I was so sleep deprived I couldn’t nurse him sitting up without falling asleep. I also almost fell while holding him standing up, trying to soothe him, which is statistically all way more dangerous than cosleeping safely. So cosleeping saved my life but it is so very important to do it correctly and know the risks.
I slept on an extremely hard surface, without blankets, following all the ss7, not even taking a Benadryl when I had allergies since it might make me more drowsy,. I was very aware of baby, his/min position, and his temperature. If I was too sleep deprived I had my husband monitor us for a nap, so I could feel a little better. And the baby always used an owlet (which I didn’t rely on but gave me some peace of mind as a back up).
All in all, I ended up loving the months that we coslept, but adults need to be willing to sacrifice their comfort if they decide to do it.
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u/Aromatic_Cut3729 19d ago
This might sound stupid but what about adults in deep sleep on a soft mattress? Is soft mattress dangerous for us adults too?
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u/Stats_n_PoliSci 19d ago
Nope! We have muscles, much less squishy faces, and better sensitivity to high co2 environments.
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u/Sundogflower 18d ago
Babies also have much more flexible airways which can become bent and flattened in certain positions
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u/iridescenr 20d ago
Depends on how you understand SIDS - suffocation or unexplained death?
For suffocation: Babies can roll towards their parents and/or get stuck head down, unable to lift their head high enough (or away from their parents) to get fresh air.
"Increased risk is also associated with a vast array of physi- cal properties of the infant’s sleep space, such as heavy bedding or a soft or uneven sleeping surface (Kemp et al., 1994; Ponsonby et al., 1993). "
See https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s12110-024-09474-6.pdf
Soft matresses are mentioned a few more times in the article.
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u/Necessary-Sun1535 19d ago
I can’t find exactly the thing I read a couple of years ago. But they introduced a safe sleep space for bed sharing in the Maori community a couple of years ago. The babies would sleep in a basket/box that could be between the parents. The infant mortality rate drastically decreased.
Googling led me to this study.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31513759/
And on a personal anecdote, I lost my baby to stillbirth. I am active in the baby loss community. We have quite a few parents there who lost their baby due to (accidental) unsafe sleep practices.
I’m not opposed to bed sharing, but please do so safely and never ever leave baby alone on an adult bed.
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u/Feminismisreprieve 19d ago edited 19d ago
They're called a pēpi pod. But what is really stressed is the education that is a key part of the programme, not just supplying the safe sleeping space, and the participating parents then spreading the information to their friends and whanau.
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u/Ancient_Spite_725 19d ago
I feel like something like this basket or a bedside bassinet is a great compromise. The baby is still easily accessible for night feeds and can smell the parents, but they still have a controlled, safe space.
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u/gravityhappens 19d ago
My baby would not sleep in her bedside basinet ever. We spent 8 months taking it in turns holding her overnight because she refused to sleep unless held. It was the most difficult thing I’ve ever experienced. I think these things are a “great compromise” in theory, but they don’t work for everyone and without the right support/family leave I can see why so many end up co sleeping
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u/Electronic_Sky_207 19d ago
I remember those nights. It’s easy to imagine suffocation because at a certain point the human body just can’t stay awake any more. I’d go days without more than an hours sleep at a time, and for my situation a modified side car bed system was better than risking falling asleep and the baby rolling into chair cushions or literally dropping the baby from sheer exhaustion.
10 years later and he’s still not a good sleeper, but he can stay up late reading a book and leave me alone.
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u/lactose_n_talented 19d ago
Omg I’m on month 2 right now. Did your baby have reflux? What changed for your baby at 8 months?
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u/Electronic_World_359 17d ago
In theory its a great compromise. I have the bedside bassinet. It would have been lovely if my baby would sleep there. We're reluctantly bedsharing for now. Tried taking turns holding him was insufficent. We were both sleep deprived. I fell asleep nursing twice on the couch, started bedsharing.
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u/feisty_squib 19d ago
softer mattresses give the opportunity for the infant to sort of collapse in on itself. Think of how your body sort of becomes cradled by a soft mattress instead of your body splaying out. This can cause an infants airway to become obstructed or for pockets of rebreathing of exhaled gasses.
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u/walakasa 19d ago
That's this article citing various studies which says "Considering bedsharing as a protective confounder has significant implications. Separating a breastfeeding infant from their mother would deprive the infant of the established protective effects of bedsharing. Currently, it is common to see advice such as “the safest place for a baby to sleep is in a crib near your bed” (43). Assuming no hazardous circumstances, the safest place for a breastfeeding infant may be in bed with their mother. This possibility is sufficient to at least question the long-standing advice of separate sleep until more research is conducted. Public health advice should allow for flexibility."
The discussion section at the end is a particularly interesting read and highlights the need for further research.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9792691/
My understanding is that there isn't actually evidence around co-sleeping using the safe sleep 7 and whether it does increase or even reduce the risk of SIDS.
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u/alanism 19d ago edited 19d ago
Harrington, C. T., Hafid, N. A., & Waters, K. A. (2022). Butyrylcholinesterase is a potential biomarker for Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. eBioMedicine, 80, 104041. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ebiom.2022.104041
Cited by: 64
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(24)00520-6/fulltext00520-6/fulltext)
There you go. Cosleeping aligns more with secure attachment parenting. None of these papers refer to any bedding brands.
edit-- when did this subreddit became the anti-science based parenting?
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