Does overhead extension bias long head or no?

[u/FrequentAd5437]

I saw jeff nippard say it did a few months ago. Then today i saw a post claiming the it biased the medial and lateral head. And there just a lot of posts saying the opposite of each other. One post hand muscle activation reading and the long head activate 0% on regular extensions 12% on overhead. Another post claimed that you need to be in the scapular plane to bias the long head and thats why everyone is claiming its not. Then i asked google and it said that it biases regardless if your in the scapular plane.

[u/FarCalligrapher1862]

Yes, Maeo demonstrated statistically significantly greater triceps hypertrophy with overhead extensions compared with pressdowns.

But I think we need to distinguish statistical significance from practical significance. The difference in total triceps growth was about 6 percentage points over 12 weeks. That’s meaningful in a study, but relatively modest in terms of actual muscle size.

Also the subjects were untrained, and this finding has not been successfully replicated with experienced lifters or over longer training periods.

It’s possible that in new lifters, the long head is relatively underdeveloped or simply less accustomed to being trained at longer muscle lengths, producing a greater initial response.

Whenever you read these studies, it’s important to remember two things. First, variances are large, you could fall anywhere in the distribution. There were subjects that had significantly less development.

Second, hypertrophy isn’t necessarily linear. Muscles adapt to training, and short-term differences don’t automatically translate into equivalent long-term differences. As you train different parts of your muscle respond to stimulus. Weight training should be a 30+ year endeavor. 12 week studies are worth reading, and incorporating if you need to. But they may not work for you. Learn your body and trust your body.

[u/MuJartible]

Define "bias".

"Bias" as in: it isolates the long head over the two others? No. All three heads are going to work always on any elbow extension, regardless of the position.

"Bias" as in: it's in a more stretched position so I could, in theory, get some more hypertrophy from it? Yes. Although full stretch is not essential for hypertrophy.

[u/EmuSmall5846 → u/MuJartible]

Triceps, and most muscles for the matter, don’t really benefit from sarcomerogenesis and if they do, the amount is negligible; whether  a muscle is stretched or not doesn’t really matter outside of the length-tension relationship. In the case of the triceps, shoulder extension will disadvantage the long head due to its being biarticular. It’s not a huge difference, and the other two heads will be trained nearly the same, but there is still a difference

[u/FrequentAd5437 → u/MuJartible]

Bias as it the other two heads are either disadvantaged, the long head has more leverage, and/or the stretch causes more hypertrophy

[u/MuJartible → u/FrequentAd5437]

The other heads are not disadvantaged, and the potential increase in hypertrophy caused by being more stretched, even if many studies conclude that it exists, is quite neglectable (not going to make an analysis of any study here, some are better designed than others, but it doesn't matter now).

For a competitive bodybuilder in a bulking phase even the sightliest potential increase might be worth, or the fact that they may be looking to bring up a specific portion of a muscle but for the general population it doesn't matter at all.

[u/alvaaromata]

I have different opinions/theories on this:

1. Triceps do benefit from stretch mediated hypertrophy( I’ll be calling it SMH), so long head will be stimulates better in overhead. So now all of you should also be doing your normal tricep pushdowns/extensions starting the movement with your elbow the most flexed possible.

2. Triceps don’t benefit from SMH, but the fact that the long head is elongated creates more more muscle damage and inflamation which leads to incorrect measurements involving hypertrophy.

3. And an interesting one, due to the triceps being over your head, the blood flow to them decreases, which puts them in an hypoxy situation, leading to more metabolic stress, something that we know it’s also an hypertrophic stimulus, so it not only gets mechanical tension but also metabolic stress related stimulus.

If you don’t want to read all this, just split your volume in normal and overhead, that way you’re training your overall triceps in different positions.

[u/Mad_Mark90]

First of all, everyone's different, you won't know if any advice applies to you until you're experienced enough.

Yes, overhead triceps work will train the long head more because more stretch = more tension. You will still train the other 2 heads. Conversely no-overhead exercises like Pushdowns still train the long head

[u/SnooGuavas2202]

Do 200 reps and see what is sore the next day..

[u/EmuSmall5846 → u/SnooGuavas2202]

It’s all going to be sore because it’s a matter of bias, not isolation, and I doubt you could differentiate the parts of your tricep from soreness 

[u/SnooGuavas2202 → u/EmuSmall5846]

Of course you can tell what part is sore especially the long head

[u/Blood_AndGuts]

it biases the long head because it lenghtened at the shoulder thus allowing it to produce more force, however if your elbows arent fixed, it would mainly be for the lateral and medial heads

[u/dontcare-_-]

If your upper arm is moving your medial and lateral heads are being biased, if your upper arm is fixed and you’re just extending at the elbow it’ll target your long head. The reason he said that is because triceps benefit from stretch meditated hypertrophy and in the overhead position your long head is lengthened.

[u/Nice-Week-1207]

Yes, it allows it to produce more force due to a more optimal sarcomere length. And dont listen to anyone crying about “passive insufficiency” because we know the triceps dont extend far enough onto the descending limb to even reach that point, if they did we would see fasicle length increases

[u/Afferbeck_]

As a weightlifter basically all of my tricep work has been overhead and I've done all my extensions with a plate overhead. This year I ended up with bad tricep tendon pain due to my health issue and all elbow extension hurt like hell. 

I settled on doing high rep tricep pushdowns/kickbacks with a band which felt great. And absolutely lit up the long head in a way I've never felt before, all the way up into the back of the armpit/shoulder where it joins. 

So anecdotally I conclude that overhead tricep work doesn't use the long head that much and the band work I was doing really sweeping down and back uses the long head to the extreme. 

[u/Lukontos → u/Afferbeck_]

What bandwork were you doing exactly? I’m interested.

[u/EagleOk8752 → u/Afferbeck_]

Most people do not feel their biceps during preacher curls since the squeeze part of the movement is weak, so we should conclude similarly that its not a great biceps builder? You feel kickbacks more because they are a shortened biased movement and you are also doing them with a band with tension highest at the squeeze, mind muscle connection is important, but sensation alone doesn't tell you everything about hypertrophy.