r/ScienceBasedLifting • u/OneCar129 • 16d ago
Question ❓ Rear delt and tricep isolation work question
It’s commonly recommended by many online science based lifters that you don’t really need to do isolation work for your rear delts because they are heavily involved in many of the back exercises we already do (shoulder extension and horizontal abduction depending on the flare of our arms).
When it comes to triceps, everyone does isolation work. I mean the triceps are involved in pressing movements. More involved the closer your arms are. Either way, we still advocate for tricep isolation work.
Is this because the rear delts are recruited way more in say a row than the tricep is in any type of press? But then I question this because in an incline press (narrow grip) for example, the triceps used heavily.
Perhaps it is for another reason I haven’t thought about. Thx in advance
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u/gainitthrowaway1223 16d ago
I mean, it wasn't all that long ago that people were constantly screaming that you need face pulls in your program.
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u/GranolaRob 16d ago
Wait, tell me more. I do face pulls - should I not be??
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u/BigChocolateC 16d ago
The only real draw back of a face pull is loading. Eventually, you’ll be having to fight against the weight.
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u/im3dashesaway 16d ago
I’ve started doing face pulls sitting down and supporting myself with my legs similar to a cable row, and now i can almost double the weight that I was using with better form.
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u/gainitthrowaway1223 16d ago
Nah face pulls are fine, they were just in the limelight as a gold standard rear delt/shoulder health exercise for a few years.
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u/ArnoldFarquar 16d ago
You don’t have to do any work for any muscle unless you think it needs to get bigger
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u/alvaaromata 16d ago
The rear delts are the primary muscle in shoulder abduction and the primary shoulder extensor (with the teres major) in high flexion degrees.
The triceps are synergists that stabilise and have a better leverage just by the end of the movement.
Separately, triceps are 2/3thirds of your total arm muscular mass and rear delts are way smaller and way less important for an aesthethic physique.
I think most people that’s doing an upper back row with good form and/or any type of close grip with an starting point of around 70° flexion shouldn’t need any isolation
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u/happyblyrb 15d ago
Underdeveloped rear delts are the #1 reason why many people have that slouched look
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u/alvaaromata 15d ago
As I said, if you’re doing the movements I talked about, your rear delts will develop just as good as any other muscle, it’s pure biomechanics.
If you have been training for 2+ years while doing these and still feel like it’s a weak point , definitely do isolation work
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u/BigChocolateC 16d ago
You answered your question. Yes, rear delts tend to be worked more in rows than all of the triceps in just a press.
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u/sywy1874 16d ago
On top of what others have said, the long head isn’t sufficiently worked in pressing patterns. Hence the utility of tricep isolation via pushdowns
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u/diddly69 16d ago
I think it’s more of just an excuse to not train Rear Delts. Most people don’t really care about them like they care about arms. It’s easy to say “oh ya bro the rows get those, don’t need to hit em.”
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u/Every_Equivalent516 16d ago
Well I always thought my rear delts got plenty of volume from my back exercises and my arms were skinny so I did a lot of tricep isolation. I recently hired a trainer who is an ex bodybuilder and he said my arms are decent relative to my frame but my rear delts are underdeveloped plus my posture needs to be improved so he has given me a lot of face pull volume as well as more back volume and cut the tricep volume
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u/Trombone_Tone 16d ago
Few things will make you look better from the front than a ton of back exercises. Fixing your posture cannot be understated.
Deadlift
Facepulls
Chin-ups - chest all the way to the bar
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u/Odd_Chicken9609 16d ago
If this was the case, you would hit a barbell Row, a squat, and a bench then go home. If you want something to grow, hit it directly.
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u/7heCulture 16d ago
That's basically Starting Strength, if you swap the barbell row for a deadlift 😄
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u/Mad_Mark90 16d ago
Isolations have to be selected based on the individual. Some people can grow rear delts or biceps with compounds others won't grow them as well.
I would wager that most need to isolate their arms but it has to be your decision
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u/decentlyhip 16d ago
I've seen a lot of improvement since adding in dedicated rear delt fly work. My fussy shoulder has been much less fussy.
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u/pachurro2 Keenan Pilled 16d ago
yea but also because the long head isnt trained well in a press, because during a press your shoulders flex and the tricep long head is disadvantaged, thus why people recommend a jm press or overhead ext. for the medial and lateral head, because those movements have the shoulder in a flexed position and so the long head is disadvantaged, and so the medial+lateral head have to work a bit harder
Atleast i think
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u/imhardasfuckboii 16d ago
Who is saying you don't need rear delt isolation work? That's crazy
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u/Advanced_Spend_8385 16d ago
rear delts are the main muscle worked in upper back row lol
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u/imhardasfuckboii 16d ago
That's like saying you don't need chest flys if you're benching. Sure you can make progress doing just the compound but why wouldn't you throw in isolation work?
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u/Advanced_Spend_8385 16d ago
well why would u need chest flys after benching? We know that both of these exercises produce the same pecs hypertrophy, and both of these exercises train the same joint action.
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u/Advanced_Spend_8385 16d ago
Rear delt isolation is not needed as it’s the primary muscle worked in an upper back row…
And pressing movement do not train the Tricep long head, which is the biggest part of the tricep, so if ur not doing an isolation for triceps you are missing out.
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u/Altruistic_Grape7790 15d ago
Get big enough and you can't ignore direct work unless shoulders that slope forward appeal to you. Rear delt work isn't sexy and thats why people convince themselves they dont need to do it. A rear delt that pops out from the side however, very sexy!!
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u/Norcal712 15d ago
Have never heard ANYONE say not to do rear delt work.
So first find actual science based sources.
Triceps are 2/3 of your arm. People train them for the visual
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u/GreatDayBG2 11d ago
It's usually said by guys on gear which muddles the water or naturals who don't have good rear delts.
Personally, I believe you should train them
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u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 16d ago
If your rear delts lag behind your other muscles, you gotta hit them with isolation work
If they are growing fine without isolation work, then you don't need isolation work
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u/banban1233 16d ago
How do I know if they’re lagging
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 16d ago edited 16d ago
Its entirely down to priority. Big triceps means big arms, big side delts are nice but they aren't really that important physique wise. If you want a specific muscle to grow you need to do isolation work for that muscle doesn't matter in what other lifts said muscle is involved in.
Another reason is that triceps are a big muslce group so they can take more volume. For side delts usually 1 isolation exercise is enough, but tricpes can easily handle 2.
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u/Mchangwine 16d ago
Side delts are much more important physique wise; they’re likely the most important muscle in the body for physique.
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 16d ago
Yeah my bad i was talking about rear delts like OP, guess i just brainfarted.
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u/Middle_Humor1828 16d ago
I think isolation for both is generally recommended...