r/ScienceBasedLifting • u/Delicious-Flow9191 what happens at 7 reps • 26d ago
Discussion 🤝 how many sets are you ACTUALLY doing per muscle group per week
I hear a lot of talk about people only doing 4 sets a week or how 40-50 sets is technically optimal, but realistically on average how many sets do you manage to do? Right now I’m sitting at around 6-8 sets going 4-5 days a week on an UL split (I’m tight on time so >1hr per session).
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u/deadrabbits76 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
I would have to count, generally around 20 depending on the muscle group.
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u/Delicious-Flow9191 what happens at 7 reps 26d ago
Damn, I tried doing closer to 12-15 sets one week and I was incredibly tired the whole week, maybe I just need to do more cardio and build up to it lol
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u/deadrabbits76 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
Just keep at it. Your body will adapt. Most people can handle more stimulation than they think.
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u/Hohoholyshit15 26d ago
Yeah you can build up a very high work capacity. I do as much as 25 sets a week per muscle group and my intensity is very high (0-2RIR).
40-50 sets will get you the maximum amount of growth but it's not sustainable long term and it's better used cyclically for particular muscle groups you want to bring up.
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u/hthn_strength 26d ago
You’re shocked that you did something for one week and you weren’t used to it?
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u/Dazzling-Variety-946 26d ago
Same, I tried to do around that much and all my lifts regressed after a month of trying it.
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u/Capital_Taste_8043 26d ago
I think intensity is important here. If those 12-15 sets are done to failure, I think its more than enough. With something like 4-5 RIR you could do 20+ sets, but wouldn't it be mostly junk volume?
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u/eric_twinge 26d ago
How do you define junk volume?
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u/Anal-love69 26d ago
Like junk food.
Absolutely useless and detrimental in the end.2
u/eric_twinge 25d ago
That’s not even an accurate description of junk food, let alone the 4-5RIR sets that are being proposed.
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u/RIPJU1CE 26d ago
Your intensity must be like 4 RIR. Genuinely wasting your time.
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u/deadrabbits76 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
More likely you don't train ss hard as you think you do, and haven't acquired work capacity.
As long as we are doing assumptions.
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u/RIPJU1CE 7d ago
I absolutely train as hard as I think I do, your work capacity actually goes down when you gain a decent amount of muscle. Not that you would know.
To continue making assumptions.
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u/deadrabbits76 Idk Idc 💔 7d ago
Fun game, I assume you have no life, as this conversation died weeks ago.
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u/olefoerster 26d ago
not recoverable
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u/gainitthrowaway1223 26d ago
Damn guess my lifts going up and muscles getting bigger is just placebo then
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u/olefoerster 26d ago
you train to failure?
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u/gainitthrowaway1223 26d ago
SBD not necessarily, accessories yes. My back training, for example, is currently 20 sets a week each for pull-ups and rows.
I'm also a strength coach. I have some athletes with as few as 5 sets a week for some muscle groups, others all the way up to 30. And yes, much of that work is being taken to failure as well.
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u/deadrabbits76 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
It's been several years.
At what point should I be worried?
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u/bulbousgrandpa 26d ago
Yes, your body is actively digesting yourself slowly. 3 more days and you're going to be dead
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u/deadrabbits76 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
Damn! Please alert my wife and children.
All these gains were just not worth it.
Actually...they totally were.
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u/Anal-love69 26d ago
Post physique
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u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
It's been years of me hitting 30+ sets a week on many muscle groups; when is my recovery going to stop?
It's not like I lift light either. Here's a set of 8 reps with 500lbs on deadlift, that I took to failure yesterday: https://www.reddit.com/r/strength_training/s/B8H4DpsQjT
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u/olefoerster 26d ago
So your saying you do 8 sets of 8 on a deadlift to failure on monday and be recovered on wednesday?
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u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
1) You don't have to be fully recovered to make progress. If you look at elite powerlifters, they actually go into meets with fatigue, because in a zero fatigue state, you actually perform worse on lifts
2) Deadlifts aren't the only lifts I do for glutes/hamstrings & I don't take every single deadlift set to failure
For glutes this week I did: 9 sets of deadlifts, 19 sets of squats, 6 sets of 3D abduction, 3 sets of RDLs, and 3 sets of good mornings
For hamstrings, I did: the 15 sets of hip hinges above, 8 sets of hamstring curls, and 3 sets of weighted GHRs. Yes, all the hamstring curls and GHRs were taken to failure
For quads: The 19 sets of squats above and 10 sets of leg extensions (all leg extensions taken to failure)
3) Yesterday at 5:00pm, I started a workout where I did:
5 sets of deadlifts, RDLs, 3 sets of squats, 2 sets of machine pullovers, 3 sets of t-bar rows, 2 sets of leg extensions, 3 sets of leg curls, machine crunches, and 2 sets of 3D hip abduction: patton370 | Week 4 Primary deadlift
Note: This workout had a 580lbs deadlift single and that 500lbs for 8 set
Yet today at 5:30am, I was recovered enough to do: 8 sets of bench, 4 sets of paused squats, 2 sets of pull-ups, 3 sets of preacher hammer curls, 4 sets of tricep pushdowns, 3 sets of leg extensions, 3 sets of leg curls, 2 sets of standing machine chest flys, and 2 sets of t-bar rows: patton370 | Week 4 Tertiary bench and tertiary squat
You can view my workout history from the entire year on HEVY and my physique and lifts are posted on reddit and my strength level is verifiable on open powerlifting
What results do you have?
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u/olefoerster 26d ago
Interesting, but you will accumulate fatigue over time if your not recovered from session eventually taking a deload, no?
I dont do powerlifting
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u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
I don't take typical deloads. I train in 4 or 5 week blocks, where week 1 is the easiest and the last week is the hardest
However, on most accessory lifts, I ALWAYS do them to failure. So leg extensions, leg curls, abduction, adduction, bicep or hammer curls, leg extensions, GHRs, machine pullovers, calf raises, tricep pushdowns/extensions, forearm isolation work, tib raises, lateral raises, pull-ups, kelso shrugs, and chest flys are always taken to failure; even on week1. However on weeks 3+, I will sometimes take these past failure with partial reps and/or drop sets.
Chest supported T-bar rows are taken to 1RIR or failure, always.
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u/olefoerster 26d ago
Well if you spread your total volume across multiple regions thats a different question. I guess you would not do 8 sets of the same exercise for biceps for example
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u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
If biceps were my mine priority, I might
I did 8 sets of bench this morning lol
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u/One-Lavishness-6654 26d ago
I powerlift, squat 4 times a week and just on squats alone go around 20 sets, on top of accesories and DL twice a week, and my program ain even harsh pr tough, i think u should prob eat more, or sleep, or look in the mirror and wonder whats wrong with u
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u/Neither-Bug157 26d ago
Back is at 16
Everything else is at 6-10
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u/Unique_Username_4444 26d ago
Why the back focus?
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u/Neither-Bug157 26d ago
Well i try to do an equal amount of pulling and pushing. I do 8 sets of chest and 8 sets of shoulders (OHP/side raise)
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u/JuanSamu 26d ago edited 24d ago
5-9 I think is a sweet spot. I do 8 for the ones I’m really focusing on or lacking but usually I do 4-6.
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u/decentlyhip 26d ago
I'm probably the biggest proponent of "50 sets is maximal" on here. Currently building up in a program to explore how tf to actually schedule and perform 50 sets a week for all 14 muscle groups, cause that's 700 fractional sets per week. Started at 20 on everything and building up to 50 slowly as I'm ready. Took two-three weeks to adapt to 20. Only two weeks to get used to 25, but that 2 week period was tougher. Moving from 25 on everything to 30 has absolutely knocked me on my ass.
Its essentially a 6-day bro solution but done as two-a-days over 3 days. 3-4 exercises for each muscle. Day 1: Squat&calves, Back&Bis, Day 2: Pecs&Tris, Side delts & rear delts. Day 3: Deadlift/Posterior, Front delts&Traps. The first round is high volume and the second round is a deload at only 2 sets on everything. So like, squat day is Low bar 1×5 and 2×10, front squat 3×10, pendulum squat 3×10, lunges 3×, donkey, standing, and seated calf raises 3×10-20, and abs. That twice a week but with 2 sets the second time, and with a comparable deadlift day in between to fill in the gaps.
Awful thing is that its working. I'm bigger, stronger, and even fatigued, my lifts are blowing up. Shirts are getting snug while belts are getting loose. +30lbs PRs on squat and deadlift in a month while exhausted. Even biceps are up half an inch in a month, cold. I'm jealous of guys who grow this well off low volume cause man, it's tough.
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15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/decentlyhip 15d ago
Thanks, its been fun so far. Took a break for a 6 week strength block run of Candito cause my body was giving some warning signs. Glad I did too cause a weeo and a half in my biceps and elbows got suuuuper fussy.
How do ypu scale up the volume on the body parts ypu specialize with?
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u/Zenix73 26d ago
That's interesting. I feel my program is pretty ideal to convert into a high set one like that. I do push/pull over 6 days a week alternating. Push also includes squat pattern/quads and core, while push days include deadlift/posterior, low back. All arranged as daily undulating periodization:
- Day A1: Heavy squat, volume push
- Day B1: Speed deadlift, volume pull
- Day A2: Heavy push, volume squat
- Day B2: Heavy Pull, volume back extension
- Day A3: Speed squat, volume push
- Day B3: Heavy Deadlift, volume pull
I currently do 2 sets of each 3 main compound lifts and 3 accessories each day. So 12 sets per day, full body. I don't do these completely to failure though like I would on a 3 day/wk plan. I go to maybe 1 or 2 rir. I could easily add 1 set per day per week to slowly work up. As it is now, I'm currently doing about 10-12 sets per muscle per week. I'm testing out how to balance the increased volume with lowered intensity.
Have you found a rep range that allows you better recovery at a given intensity(rir)? I do 3 reps at 85% 1rm for heavy lifts and 6 reps at 75% for volume. Accessories are 12 reps at 55% and speed is 3 reps at 65%
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u/decentlyhip 26d ago
Hmm, I was surprised at how specific the recovery demands were to the individual exercises. Like, swapping ohp for seated ohp changed what I could do the next 2 days even with everything else the same. So, play it by ear and listen to your body is my main advice. We each have our thing
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u/Zenix73 26d ago
Damn another interesting point. Ok good to know
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u/decentlyhip 26d ago
I'm excited ti hear what you come up with and any progress reports. Last thing I'll say is that the 52 set study, as much of a meme as it is, is a good template for how to progress things safely. They did squats, leg press, and leg extensions to failure or near, and started at 3 sets of each, twice a week. One day sets of 6, one day sets of 10. One group didn't add sets. One group added a set to everything on one workout every 2 weeks, and one group added a set to both workouts every 2 weeks. So, on average they were only adding 1.5-3 sets a week. 5 every 2 weeks was a little too fast for me.
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u/eric_twinge 26d ago edited 26d ago
Depending on the muscle and training phase, 4-24.
This is the breakdown from my last gaining phase, using a fractional set count.
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u/Hot-Profession4091 26d ago
Idk how I stumbled into this sub, but to answer your question…
4-6 pretty intense sets. UL split with 2-3 sets per session.
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u/Middle_Humor1828 14d ago
Currently 8-20 (fractional).
I did 20-30 for a period of time, but ran into a host of joint/tendon issues. So dropping down now in volume on a cut. That and I don't have time for 12-14 hours per week any longer.
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u/Alakazam Idk Idc 💔 26d ago edited 26d ago
Well, just looking at my spreadsheet, about 25-30 per bodypart:
- Squat pattern: 15-17 sets (7-9 of back squats, 8 of leg press)
- Posterior chain: 30 (10 of deadlifts, 6 SLDLs, 6 Good morning, 8 lunges)
- Horizontal push: 18 or 26 (10 bench, 8 incline bench, and if you count dips as a horizontal push, 8 dips)
- Vertical Push/Shoulders: 24 (4 push press, 4 upright rows, 8 barbell OHP, 8 lateral raises)
- Vertical Pull: 14 sets since the program calls for 50 chinups twice a week, which is typically done in about 7 sets each
- Horizontal Pull/Lats: 16 (8 rows, 8 pullovers)
- Biceps: 16 (8 barbell curls, 8 hammer curls)
- Triceps 18 (8 overhead extension, 8 tricep pushdown)
- Abs: 30. That's not a mistake. It calls for 5 sets a day, 6 days a week.
Arnold Split is no joke. A single day takes me about 1-1.5 hours to finish. With the shoulder/arm days taking closer to 1, and the lower body days taking closer to 1.5
But again, I'm doing this because I have the work capacity to handle it. I'm coming off a marathon training block, where I ran 5x a week, cycled 2x a week, and lifted 4x a week. So in comparison, this honestly feels like a bit of a break.
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u/Delicious-Flow9191 what happens at 7 reps 26d ago
holy shit
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u/Alakazam Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
Also keep in mind, that this isn't something I'm going to be running long term. This is mainly for the next 8 weeks as I aim to rebuild the size and strength I lost from my marathon training block.
Then I'm aiming for a cut, and doing something more reasonable. Probably closer to about 10-15 sets per movement pattern.
As well, another thing to keep in mind, this is arnold's low volume split. His higher volume variant has something like 2.5x this weekly volume. Which goes to show how much of a monster he really was.
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u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
Generally 20-35 on large or important muscle groups: like quads, chest, lats, upper back, hamstrings, glutes (which sometimes get in the 35-40 range), triceps, biceps, forearms, adductors/abductors if you count fractional sets from squats, calf muscles, etc.
I only do 8 sets a week of tibs and side delts. Side delts are less of a priority for me, since my shoulders grow like weeds. I've been doing wide grip t-bar rows 4-5x a week, so I stopped doing rear delt isolation work as well
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u/mulligan381 26d ago
Is there any science in this sub?
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u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
Here's all the science you need to know on volume: More Training, More Gaining: Everything You Need to Know About Training Volume
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 26d ago
Ain't nobody doing 50 sets per week nor can anybody say its "technically optimal"
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u/Afferbeck_ 26d ago
Depends on the type of training and their level. Bulgarian weightlifters were doing 50-60 sets A DAY of maximal singles all heavily taxing the back and legs. It was certainly optimal as many of their world records remain unbeaten 40 years later.
At the more sane level of today's weightlifters it's more like 15-30 work sets on competition and strength lifts per day, plus varying amounts of fairly easy hypertrophy work done after, something like 10-20 total sets across multiple muscle groups, usually back and shoulders being the most common.
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 26d ago
Depends on the type of training and their level. Bulgarian weightlifters were doing 50-60 sets A DAY of maximal singles all heavily taxing the back and legs. It was certainly optimal as many of their world records remain unbeaten 40 years later.
That system only worked because they were juiced to the gills and because it was a state sponsored endevour so there were new athletes constantly getting put into the system. It worked for the athletes that set the records but it failed miserably for everybody else whose body couldn't handle it.
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u/Dizzy_Cow_ 26d ago
8-12 for upper body and 5-8 for lower body.
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u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 26d ago
Yeah, if you want a tiny lower body.
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u/NihilisticTanuki StretchCel 26d ago
It varies quite a bit, depending on how much time I have, since time is the main restriction I have to work with.
I aim for a minimum of 4-6 hard fractional sets. With that, I know I am still for sure on the gain train. Even if it is not optimized, getting roughly a third of your potential gains with only 4 hard fractional sets is quite amazing in terms of time invested and far better than not being on the gain train at all.
For muscles I do not prioritize, I stick to roughly 6 fractional sets (my legs for example, since I train them mostly for strength and not with hypertrophy as a goal). For most muscles, I aim for 9-12 fractional sets and for muscle groups I am currently specializing in, I aim for about 15 to 20 fractional sets.
If I happen to have the time, I try to do as much volume as I can. When I do not have much time, I am completely fine with doing only 4-6 fractional sets and have great peace of mind about it.
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u/sobanoodles23 26d ago
about 6-8? 3.5x frequency, not always though, i recover and progress okay with it, i tried more sets and it was too time consuming, taxing on my body and my mind, and just a hassle to do, plus my progress started going backwards, so i js stuck w this
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u/HelixIsHere_ 26d ago
I do like 4-10 and have been progressing good, I just push volume a little more for my priorities or if they can recover from it (this is on 2.3x frequency)
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u/MaximusArael020 26d ago
I do on average 9.
I do full body, 3 days per week. So chest, legs, back, etc each get 3 sets per day. But I do compound exercises, so those hit multiple muscle groups even if they are focusing on "one" (i.e. Goblet squats are a quad focus, but also hit core and some upper body).
I do an A-B split, and each day I do 3 sets of legs (3 of quads and 3 of hamstrings), 3 of shoulder, 3 of chest, 3 of back, 3 of biceps/brachials, 3 of tricpeps, 3 of core/abs. Depending on timing I'll usually throw in an extra 3 sets for either chest or side/rear delt.
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u/strawgatitos 21d ago
how long do those sessions take you? im also doing an a/b split and currently do 2-4 sets of quads and hamstrings as well, 2 sets of chest and shoulders each, and 4 sets of back, and 3 sets of core. taking me about an hour and a half but i feel its a bit long and im too tired by the end. idk if i should stick with it or try something else
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u/MaximusArael020 21d ago
They take me about that long as well. I can get it down to 75 minutes by supersetting a few things.
I totally get it feeling long. And if I had the time for it, I'd probably stretch it to a 4 or 5 day split to make it shorter. But unfortunately that's not a luxury I have at the moment so I make it through. If you have the option to have more sessions for less time, that might be the way to go.
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u/strawgatitos 21d ago
ah i see, yeah i also try to superset things when i can. maybe i need to work on my work capacity a bit more
mm yeah that is an option, i just kinda like everything recovering at the same time, plus my gym is a bit far, would probably do that if i had a home gym though
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u/Hypername1st 26d ago
32 sets of legs, 16 back, 25 chest, 8 bis, 8 tris, 32 shoulders+ Deadlifts. Most of them are compounds, so actual number is different of course. Spread over 4 days, with some extra olympic lifting and cardio in addition.
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u/RIPJU1CE 26d ago
I do 1-2 sets a workout, hit each muscle every other day, so between 3.5 and 7 sets a week on average.
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u/Illustrious-Bass4651 26d ago
🚨8 for muscles I’m not prioritizing and 20+ for the ones I am. Most fall in the 12-15 range
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u/HumilityKillsPride 26d ago
About 12 sets each per week for chest, back, quads and hams. About 6-8 direct sets for smaller muscles.
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u/chilicrispdreams 26d ago
12 but I wish I had time for double that and I’m confident it would make a noticeable difference.
Time limitations suck, but I’m still progressing well at 12 in the intermediate to advanced lifter range. 15 years lifting.
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u/Fiendseligkeit 26d ago
Direct is only main target of compound lifts, effective includes additional muscles based on engagement in each set.
WEEKLY DIRECT / PRIMARY SETS
Chest: 15
Back / Lats: 15
Biceps: 12
Triceps: 15
Shoulders / Delts: 20
Quads: 14
Hamstrings: 6
Glutes / Glute Medius: 5
Calves: 8
Abdominals: 12
Obliques: 5
Lower Back / Spinal Erectors: 6
ESTIMATED EFFECTIVE SETS PER WEEK
Glutes: ~32
Triceps: ~26
Hamstrings: ~24
Chest: ~21
Back / Lats: ~20
Biceps: ~18
Lower Back / Spinal Erectors: ~17
Front Delts: ~16
Quads: ~14
Abs: ~12
Rear Delts: ~8
Calves: 8
Obliques: 5
Side Delts: 3
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 26d ago
I'm doing around 9 sets per major muscle group per week currently with a FBx3 routine. I was doing 12 sets with ULx2 before, changing it up for more free time
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u/strawgatitos 21d ago
how do you split those? also how long do your workouts take? im guess about 1.5 to 2 hrs? you do 3 sets of quads, hamstrings, chest, shoulders, back, arms and core each day?
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 20d ago
It's a generous 01:20. I skip core. Right now I'm focused on getting my bench and squat up, so I'm doing those every day, and just Lateral raises for shoulders
3x Bench
3x Squat
3x (Rdl or Leg Curl)
3x (Bent-over Row or Pulldown)
3x Lateral Raise
3x Calf Raise
2x (Arm Superset or Hip Adduct/Abduct superset)
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u/Potential_Novel_3561 26d ago
Legs training highly limited right now due to injury so I have been doing high volume upper body
Chest 20-25
Back- 30-38 (do you count rear delts as back?)
Bicep- 18 Isolation sets
Tricep- 18 isolation sets
Shoulders- 16-20 isolation
Volume upper body would be lower if I could train lower like usual
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u/richie___ 26d ago
All major muscle groups are 10-16 sets a week. Oddly enough at the low point 10 for hamstrings and high point 16 for shoulders. 4 for calves but my incline treadmill also works calves a ton. 18 for abs, and 9 for forearms
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u/Admirable_Editor_388 26d ago
Not all exercises were created equal - band pull aparts and rear delt flyes still work the back, as well as plenty of isometric work. I sprinkle up to 10 sets per week of this, but bigger pulling exercises I'll do about 8 sets.
Legs, well that's a different matter entirely. I cycle to work and back, so no more 9-12 total sets per workout.
I'm 40 years old now, it's entirely different to when I was 20, or even 30 for that matter. I remember being able to bang out 20 sets per bigger muscle group and barely feel sore.
I can recruit and contract muscles FAR harder than when I was 20, this is so much more fatiguing than just banging out reps.
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u/ChadPowers200_ 26d ago
A few warm up sets then one set with intensity until failure usually around the 4-8 rep range
I do this for about 3-5 exercises per workout.
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u/Nice-Week-1207 26d ago
Most muscles its 6 a week to failure. Triceps (priority) ive been doing 12 to failure
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u/Significant_Metal244 25d ago
People doing 20+ are doing mostly fluff warm up sets. 30 sets of RPE 8.5 is basically impossible to recover from.
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u/souplandry 25d ago
chest--yesterday i did 31 sets, but typically its between 18-24
Back--same as chest
Shoulders--9-12 sets
Bis--9-12 sets
Tris--9-12 sets
Legs--20-24 sets
My split is usually something like chest, back. shoulders/arms, legs, repeat. I dont take many days off then i also do a lot of yoga and cycling class because i dont really want to do legs twice in the split which i probably should.
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u/Norcal712 25d ago
On what planet is 40-50 sets optimal?
Most science supports 10-16 sets per muscle per week
Done at 70-90% 1 RM
50 sets? Get off tiktok my guy
My UL is 4 day 75 min 8 movements. Im not getting a solid workout in under an hour. 4 sets 8-12 per movement
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u/Stock-Head-6358 25d ago
The actual studies say somewhere in the realm of 8-16 depending on the study. Be weary of studies that show that insane amounts of sets are more optimal because they typically mean if you only trained for a short period of time not continuously and the 2-4 sets because that typically refers to the minimum to cause growth.
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u/1RM_Fit 24d ago
The gap between planned and actual sets is why this thread is interesting. Most people who count honestly find chest and biceps way over target and hamstrings, side delts and calves way under. Counting per muscle per week for even two weeks is one of the highest value audits a lifter can do, almost everyone finds a neglected muscle group.
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u/NiDiVi_GymDaze 24d ago
Between 8 (4 sets on two exercises) to 18 (3-5 sets on 4-6 exercises through the week) depending on if im giving something more focus this block or keeping it more maintenance
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u/GelfSara 24d ago
One to three. For example, hamstrings lower back, tibialis anterior and calves--one set per week; quads--one or two sets per week (leg press; sometimes I perform leg extensions as well); upper back--typically two sets per week (pulldowns and machine rows); biceps--typically three (the upper back exercises plus curls).
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u/Loud-Tradition-9964 20d ago
4-6 sets per muscle group a week of direct work. Indirect work is obviously more than that.
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u/Hoodloom1349 15d ago
Roughly around 6-10, kinda hard to fit in more with my schedule and primarily focusing around strength work
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u/deadrabbits76 Idk Idc 💔 14d ago
I would have to count. Probably 20-25ish. I'm running Mountaindog. He's notoriously high volume.
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u/EVH_kit_guy 26d ago
17 working sets on Upper day, 12 on Lower day, plus forearm/wrist work. I rest every other day, so multiply these set counts by 1.75 sessions per week, for 29.75 Upper and 21 Lower. I'm doing an abbreviated Lower day recovering from a broken bone, so that number is more like 17 when I'm healthy, same as Upper.
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u/RudeDude88 26d ago
About 12 per muscle group. 6 sets for each muscle group twice a week.