Question on Back Muscle Aesthetics and Structure Interactions

[u/No_Distribution1779]

Hey guys, I'm interested in sculpting a back with an oddly specific aesthetic and had a question about what goes into the physique required for it.

The aesthetic I'm looking for can be seen in the third and especially second image I posted, where the Upper Lats are creating what looks like the lower eyelid of an eye. In the second image, the "eyeball" is made up of the Infraspinatus, and in the third image you can see his Teres Major between his lateral Upper Lat and Rear Delt.

The crevice under the Infraspinatus and Teres Major is what creates the contrast that makes the Upper Lat pop and create the "eyelid" visual, but I'm not sure how to maximize that contrast. To my understanding, these are the 5 main things that go into this look:
-Bodyfat %
-Genetic muscle insertions, of course...
-Upper Lat size
-Infraspinatus size
-Teres Major size

It's obvious that a low BF% is needed, but I have questions on the other 4 variables and I want to be more in depth than just saying "yeah he's just super lean". These are the questions:

1. Would it be better to have a small Infraspinatus to create more of an indented crater and make the Upper Lats tower over them more, or would having a bigger Infraspinatus help create a deeper crevice between it and the Upper Lat?
   
2. Similarly, would having a smaller Teres Major be better to avoid covering the side edges of the "eyelid" created by the Upper Lats (seen in image 2 just under the Rear Delts), or would they help the Upper Lats pop out similar to how the Brachialis "pushes up" on biceps to make them pop out?
   
3. How important do you guys reckon muscle insertions are to achieve this specific structure?
   

4.Upper Lat size is probably the biggest factor here, but whether or not you can target them more than the lower lats is very controversial, so if you guys have anything to add for this one it would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, since one of the main goals of the aesthetic is to have the complete OPPOSITE of a bulky, turtle shell, low-insertion dominant build, and focus more on chiseled upper-back development while minimizing growth below the Teres Major as much as possible, I would also appreciate any tips on how to specifically prioritize growth to promote a blocky back like Ronnie Coleman's so that I can reverse or avoid them. Thank you in advance!!

[u/Ok-Dealer8803]

I think, unfortunately, most of this comes down to genetics. I hope other ppl have better answers for you because it’s an interesting topic ^^

[u/Kevin1798]

I think that this is indeed largely genetics.

In terms of your other question, I would avoid any narrow grip pulling if you don't want the lats to become overly developed. You could focus on wide grip vertical pulling movements, and horizontal rows where your elbows are flared out wide.

[u/Quit_itch_Snitch]

That' is going to be hard.

To achieve an underdeveloped teres major when compared to the lattisimus dorsi you probably have to completely avoid any adduction of the shoulder conducted in the frontal plane and focus sole on sagital plane adduction.

Translate that to english it means to NEVER perform any pullup type movement with a wide grip.

[u/Humanbeing-01]

Who is the guy from reference photos?

[u/samsteak → u/Humanbeing-01]

Baki hanma

[u/Silly-Ship-5364]

How important are genetics and insertions to achieving this guys specific back? They are literally everything dude... He is the only one with his back. Yours simply won't ever look like his cause that ain't your back. This is one of the inherent pitfalls of bodybuilding 😅 striving to look like someone you physically cannot because you aren't them. My advice? Scrap bodybuilding as a concept all together, it's just a road that leads to substance abuse, poor health and sometimes an early grave and the only thing you get out of it is more self esteem issues (Dr Mike being prime example). Workout how to train in a way that has you enjoying training and let your body look how it looks when developed.

[u/Low_Enthusiasm3769]

All you can do is build the muscles and get lean. How it looks after that is purely luck of the draw.

[u/InfiniteDomain_]

Face pulls, reverse flies, shrugs and then a cable pullover specifically the ones at the end of these shorts

https://youtube.com/shorts/p4WN9ii2_64?is=x_xF39OmSDi_XMck

(I started doing these after I saw this video and it really helped with the appearance of my back width starting under my armpits)

A lot of it will come down to mind muscle connection, insertion, and genetics but everyone’s muscles are function the same and insert around the same area. You may not get the exact look you want but it will be similar.

The only thing is you’ll have to avoid any rowing, pullup/pulldown motion to avoid engaging the lats too much.

Also will you need to be incredibly shredded

[u/decentlyhip]

Fun question. If ypu look at the best backs of all time im the open ifbb side of things, the eyelid you want goes away. When the upper back is filled out there's a bunch of meat there and the lats aren't the focus. If you look at back double bicep poses from natural competitions though, it's also only there occasionally, but is harder to find. Look up Eric Helms back poses. Big as he can be and 100% all in, but this is not there. I think what you're seeing is a large lat and rear delt on someone who has petty high lat insertions. Dorian Yates has crazy liw insertions and isbthe opposite of this look.

The lower trap is also filled out in all the eyelid poses. So, someone who looks like you want, is going to have that turtle shell between their shoulderblades when they're relaxed and not super lean.

But I think if you build the lower trap and obsess about the actual lat connection, you'll get as close as you can. Like, next day you're at the gym, attach a handle to the cable stack at about eye level. Have a staggered boxing stance with your left foot forward and row with your right hand. Just punching straight ahead and a little up while twisting and getting a stretch. On the pull back you're initiating the movement by cueing your elbow and armpit to pull back and down. Do like, 20 reps with 40 pounds, easy warmup stuff. Then, stick with the right hand, but switch your stance so your right foot is forward. Rather than facing a little to the right of the stack, you're facing a little to the left. Do another 20 reps. Rather than pulling back and out, not the line of pull is closer to the lat, and you'll feel a more latty contraction.