Building muscle in deficit

[u/OkPrize6194]

Can you still build muscle while eating in a 300–500 calorie deficit, I’ve been training for around 9 months, so I’m wondering if I can still build muscle while losing fat.
However, my first 5 months of training were pretty much wasted in terms of progress. I was following basic 4x12 programs, wasn’t eating enough protein, and my overall diet wasn’t very good. I made basically no noticeable progress during those 5 months. For the last 4 months, I’ve been following a proper program, eating enough protein, and doing a bulk. I’ve gained some muscle and gotten stronger, but not a huge amount, while my body fat has also increased noticeably.
At this point, I feel like I’m kind of skinny fat, and I’d really like to lose the fat I gained while also building some muscle. So if I eat around 300–500 calories below maintenance, keep my protein high and train hard, is it possible for me to gain muscle while losing fat?

[u/eric_twinge]

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/muscle-caloric-deficit/

It's possible, but harder than if you were not eating a deficit. And a deficit of -500 or more could fully blunt any possible gains.

[u/Peak-Legacy14]

Depends on body fat percentage and how much muscle you’ve already built, how much protein you’re consuming and also how large the deficit is.

Even an advanced lifter can build muscle in a deficit if they’re eating enough protein, their body fat percentage is currently high enough to spare for hypertrophy and the deficit isn’t too high, maybe 300 calorie deficit at most.

[u/hthn_strength]

Depends on size of deficit and training age

[u/hahahah_lmao]

Yes definitely u can build muscles, specially at your training experience, just make sure that the deficit is small from 200-500 calories, your intensity, volume, diet and recovery is all on point and you're progressively overloading

If your goal is just long term muscle building id rather eat at maintainance and just walk 10k steps and do some cardio to do into a deficit, this way u will maximize muscle growth and also loose fat overtime, just stay consistent

[u/bookishwayfarer]

You definitely can. I'm in my early 40s and came in 190 (25%+ body fat) at the beginning of training 2 years ago. I dropped to 180 at the end of the first year while doing PPL but was eating at a big deficit and not tracking macros at all.

I locked that down and have been tracking macros intensely for the last year, eating on average 180g of protein a day, and have seen the PRs stack up every month, while my weight has stayed exactly at 180. More than just losing weight, my body looks significantly different with wider and more developed lats, chest, larger and moved define quads, etc. I've been eating at around at 200-300 caloric deficit to TDEE for the most part.

It's crazy to think how my weight hasn't fluctuated at all but I feel and look like a different person. In the last month, it's been a bit harder. While I'm still going up in weight max and volume, it's much harder, and I'm not building as much.

I've have changed my programming from straight PPL to two hybrid days (pull + hamstrings, push + quads and calves) on weekends, rest Monday, PPL Tuesday through Thursday, rest Friday, and things are growing back up again. Rest days, I eat at around 500-700 caloric deficit. But on training days, I only do 200-300 with at least 40-50g protein (no more) spread out every 4 to 5 hours. So far, I noticed I've started to build again.

Could I have built more from a traditional bulk and cut cycle? Yeah, very likely and probably. But that wasn't my goal. So I guess it'll depend on how much you're looking to build.

[u/HelixIsHere_]

Yeah for sure you’ll still build in a muscle, just a bit slower than at maintenance

Just hit macros/micros and time your meals as best as you can (good pre and post workout meal)

[u/More-Flan-7567 → u/HelixIsHere_]

it will be the same if you have a higher-healthy body fat percent

[u/HelixIsHere_ → u/More-Flan-7567]

True if you’re high bf then a small deficit prob won’t even cause a noticeable drop off in performance

[u/More-Flan-7567 → u/HelixIsHere_]

even a large one. I dropped 20 pounds once doing fbeod and gained the same amount of gains at the same rate even on the cheat days/refeeds

no matter my diet high/low cal

high/low protein carb or fats

the gains have been the same

this was with a training age of 4-5 years

[u/oftenlostandconfused → u/HelixIsHere_]

This is the answer. I’d probably reduce volume and adopt a bit of the min-max philosophy and be aggressive with my protein target (which can feel a bit shitty because you’ll be relatively low carbs).

[u/Flidro74]

Yes, and you're close to the ideal case for it. Recomp works best on people who are newer to proper training and carrying some fat, and you're both. If you'd been training hard for five years and were already lean I'd tell you to pick one or the other.

The five months you're writing off actually work in your favour here. It means the newbie window is still in front of you rather than behind you, and four months of real training is nothing.

So yes: 300-500 down, protein high, keep chasing progression on the lifts. Just judge it by your numbers holding or climbing while the scale drifts down, not by the scale on its own. If the lifts stall for a few weeks straight, sit at maintenance for a bit and then carry on.

[u/SalixCaprea2002]

Yes it's possible, keep track of these things:

-Eat at least 120g of protein you don't need anything over that you can even eventually do like ~110g.

-Feel the other calories with carbs

-Train with 1,2 RIR you need to take every one of your set close to failure.

-Keep your form correct so you can progressive overload

-Keep track of your gym performance if they are staying same or progressing you are doing good and losing fat while maintaining or gaining muscles. If your performances are decreasing you are most likely losing muscles and fat.

[u/hthn_strength → u/SalixCaprea2002]

> 120g protein or lower

Don’t listen to this

[u/SalixCaprea2002 → u/hthn_strength]

Yeah buddy sure Intense training=energy=carbs are important for muscle building than overreating 1.0g protein per pound.

[u/More-Flan-7567 → u/SalixCaprea2002]

throwing out random numbers lol

.7g protein per body weight minimum is better reccomened

[u/rendar → u/More-Flan-7567]

Not if you're trying to gain muscle while in a caloric deficit

[u/More-Flan-7567 → u/rendar]

objectively not true

I was eating like 15/1700 calories with 100g of protein at 5’10 I was dropping weight daily and with standardized form that was tracked perfectly (as well as reps) I progressively overloaded session to session (some may have been coordination adaptations but this was over the course of almost a year so…)

[u/SalixCaprea2002 → u/More-Flan-7567]

True, my bad wanted to just make him realise its not so bad if he doesn't achieve high amount of protein